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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[UNITY] We The Defiant

Author
Anslo
Scope Works
#181 - 2014-07-31 02:19:37 UTC
Chronoxi wrote:
So now the gallentean boys who have absolutely no idea about anything come to offer their perspective, marvelous.

I must say, that I despise ignorant gallenteans more than matar heathens, slightly. They claim that we, chosen of God, are religious zealots. But they're always seen preaching the religion called 'democracy' and 'insert federal political ideas here' and only back their false religion up with pure ignorance. At least the matar heathens make some sense and tell less lies. Even the heathen republic doesn't really like the stupid federation, even though they had some sort of alliance. Don't feel too bad though, the heathens never liked anyone, they only know hate.

Example is, Anslo and Laurentis Thiesant. Rather excellent example of gallentean ignorance. I can almost always see them in every thread, whining, lying, propagating idiocy and generally being an annoyance.


Oh yeah. I don't know anything about the topic. Despite, you know, being one of the major forces defending huola for the Minmatar. Not like that counts or anything right?

By the way, where were you during all that?

Oh. Right.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#182 - 2014-07-31 05:00:30 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Chronoxi wrote:
So now the gallentean boys who have absolutely no idea about anything come to offer their perspective, marvelous.

I must say, that I despise ignorant gallenteans more than matar heathens, slightly. They claim that we, chosen of God, are religious zealots. But they're always seen preaching the religion called 'democracy' and 'insert federal political ideas here' and only back their false religion up with pure ignorance. At least the matar heathens make some sense and tell less lies. Even the heathen republic doesn't really like the stupid federation, even though they had some sort of alliance. Don't feel too bad though, the heathens never liked anyone, they only know hate.

Example is, Anslo and Laurentis Thiesant. Rather excellent example of gallentean ignorance. I can almost always see them in every thread, whining, lying, propagating idiocy and generally being an annoyance.


Oh yeah. I don't know anything about the topic. Despite, you know, being one of the major forces defending huola for the Minmatar. Not like that counts or anything right?

By the way, where were you during all that?

Oh. Right.


In the vanguard with WINMATAR and Amarrian Vengeance standing ground, so to speak, against Scope and the Minmatar Militia defenders and their relentless counter attacks.

All said and done that was some fine combat experience, only serving to further fuel the fires of my Faith, and desire to see Huola one day be Reclaimed and humanity bettered as a whole.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#183 - 2014-07-31 05:35:17 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Chronoxi wrote:
So now the gallentean boys who have absolutely no idea about anything come to offer their perspective, marvelous.

I must say, that I despise ignorant gallenteans more than matar heathens, slightly. They claim that we, chosen of God, are religious zealots. But they're always seen preaching the religion called 'democracy' and 'insert federal political ideas here' and only back their false religion up with pure ignorance. At least the matar heathens make some sense and tell less lies. Even the heathen republic doesn't really like the stupid federation, even though they had some sort of alliance. Don't feel too bad though, the heathens never liked anyone, they only know hate.

Example is, Anslo and Laurentis Thiesant. Rather excellent example of gallentean ignorance. I can almost always see them in every thread, whining, lying, propagating idiocy and generally being an annoyance.


Oh yeah. I don't know anything about the topic. Despite, you know, being one of the major forces defending huola for the Minmatar. Not like that counts or anything right?

By the way, where were you during all that?

Oh. Right.

A couple of pirate ships in a huge minmatar blob considers themselves "major defending force"?
Really?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#184 - 2014-07-31 07:48:46 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

A couple of pirate ships in a huge minmatar blob considers themselves "major defending force"?
Really?


Not that I don't enjoy the whole smacking left and right, but can us amused spectators get some kind of numbers there?
Just for reference.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2014-07-31 07:55:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Elmund Egivand wrote:


Hate to admit it but you are right about democracy not being everyone's cup of coffee. The Republic tried. It didn't work very well. We went back to our roots instead. That one seemed to be working.

Democracy only really works for a certain kind of mentality and culture, assuming that the mentality doesn't change. It assumes that every man, woman and child of the nation cares about their nation and the direction their nation is heading, and that they will all take the trouble educating themselves in matters of the nation and can be counted on to make informed decisions.

As we had seen, the reality is something else entirely. The Federation itself sees lower and lower voter turnouts every election unless something particularly traumatic happens. The masses tend to vote more on what's popular, or vote based on what terrifies/angers them at the time, rather than any kind of solid info on what the parties stand for. It is a fortunate thing that visionary leaders in the Federation are also really good at PR, at least that's how it seems to me, and the masses eventually figured out they made a mistake (though usually after several years of further traumatic tragedies). Otherwise democracy wouldn't had worked at all.



Democracy works for the Federation for one reason and one reason alone, we are the most heterogeneous society in the cluster. Yes, the Republic has various tribes, the State has their corporate blocs, and the Amarr have a myriad of groups under their domain. However, the culture, beliefs, and practices between various people in these nations are extremely similar. The Matari all herald for the same planet, and suffered Amarr rule. The State all believe in wayism and meritocracy, just have different views on how it should be applied, and the Amarr all share one common faith.

But in the Federation, there are hundreds of different groups and cultures, and thousands of subgroups within these groups and cultures. Hell, there are a significant number of people living in the Federation that haven't heard a word of Gallentean in their entire lives. There is so much diversity, especially in our core systems. On our major stations and planets, there are very few people who are "pure blooded" and only have ancestry dating back to one race. Even the aristocratic Gauron families aren't 100% Gallentean anymore. I myself have a Caldari mother.

This is why the Federation needs democracy. There are so many differing backgrounds, so many opposing views. Without it, then it would be impossible to represent the people as equally as possible. This is why the most troublesome periods in Federal history have been when one political party dominated the entire government. It's one point of view out of trillions.

Without Democracy, the only other way to have such a massive nation of multiple races is to go the way of the Amarr. Convert everyone to your ideology instead of accommodating theirs. Have only one perspective rather than many. I'm not condemning the Amarrian system here. I'm just explaining why democracy is so vital to the Federation.

If our government were to declare tomorrow that democracy was being thrown away, the Federation would completely collapse in a month.

EDIT: Just for clarity, I'm not trying to explain why democracy is better. Just why democracy is what works best for us.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2014-07-31 10:56:23 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:


Hate to admit it but you are right about democracy not being everyone's cup of coffee. The Republic tried. It didn't work very well. We went back to our roots instead. That one seemed to be working.

Democracy only really works for a certain kind of mentality and culture, assuming that the mentality doesn't change. It assumes that every man, woman and child of the nation cares about their nation and the direction their nation is heading, and that they will all take the trouble educating themselves in matters of the nation and can be counted on to make informed decisions.

As we had seen, the reality is something else entirely. The Federation itself sees lower and lower voter turnouts every election unless something particularly traumatic happens. The masses tend to vote more on what's popular, or vote based on what terrifies/angers them at the time, rather than any kind of solid info on what the parties stand for. It is a fortunate thing that visionary leaders in the Federation are also really good at PR, at least that's how it seems to me, and the masses eventually figured out they made a mistake (though usually after several years of further traumatic tragedies). Otherwise democracy wouldn't had worked at all.



Democracy works for the Federation for one reason and one reason alone, we are the most heterogeneous society in the cluster. Yes, the Republic has various tribes, the State has their corporate blocs, and the Amarr have a myriad of groups under their domain. However, the culture, beliefs, and practices between various people in these nations are extremely similar. The Matari all herald for the same planet, and suffered Amarr rule. The State all believe in wayism and meritocracy, just have different views on how it should be applied, and the Amarr all share one common faith.

But in the Federation, there are hundreds of different groups and cultures, and thousands of subgroups within these groups and cultures. Hell, there are a significant number of people living in the Federation that haven't heard a word of Gallentean in their entire lives. There is so much diversity, especially in our core systems. On our major stations and planets, there are very few people who are "pure blooded" and only have ancestry dating back to one race. Even the aristocratic Gauron families aren't 100% Gallentean anymore. I myself have a Caldari mother.

This is why the Federation needs democracy. There are so many differing backgrounds, so many opposing views. Without it, then it would be impossible to represent the people as equally as possible. This is why the most troublesome periods in Federal history have been when one political party dominated the entire government. It's one point of view out of trillions.

Without Democracy, the only other way to have such a massive nation of multiple races is to go the way of the Amarr. Convert everyone to your ideology instead of accommodating theirs. Have only one perspective rather than many. I'm not condemning the Amarrian system here. I'm just explaining why democracy is so vital to the Federation.

If our government were to declare tomorrow that democracy was being thrown away, the Federation would completely collapse in a month.

EDIT: Just for clarity, I'm not trying to explain why democracy is better. Just why democracy is what works best for us.


That is very enlightening. So Democracy exists to ensure every group has a shot in getting a piece of the pie, I take it?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Chronoxi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2014-07-31 13:50:20 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Chronoxi wrote:
So now the gallentean boys who have absolutely no idea about anything come to offer their perspective, marvelous.

I must say, that I despise ignorant gallenteans more than matar heathens, slightly. They claim that we, chosen of God, are religious zealots. But they're always seen preaching the religion called 'democracy' and 'insert federal political ideas here' and only back their false religion up with pure ignorance. At least the matar heathens make some sense and tell less lies. Even the heathen republic doesn't really like the stupid federation, even though they had some sort of alliance. Don't feel too bad though, the heathens never liked anyone, they only know hate.

Example is, Anslo and Laurentis Thiesant. Rather excellent example of gallentean ignorance. I can almost always see them in every thread, whining, lying, propagating idiocy and generally being an annoyance.


Oh yeah. I don't know anything about the topic. Despite, you know, being one of the major forces defending huola for the Minmatar. Not like that counts or anything right?

By the way, where were you during all that?

Oh. Right.


Where am I? See, another shining example of Anslo's ignorance.
"hngnng I only see minmatar and meself wat other peeople no other peopls they all fled our might hngngngh dis is truth nuu fughts in Huola the amarrs fled victory for the federation (not the republic, becus tdey didn't do anything the federaaation did everything to securee HUola hnnnhg.)" This is what you sound like by the way. Before you get all riled up know that I am a commoner, thus not as restricted as noble Amarr holders when writing or speaking.

I almost laughed when you state that you're "one of the major forces defending Huola". But then I am too disgusted by your ignorance to laugh. Maybe you should learn from Fred, at least he is funny and less annoying.

weeeeEEEEEEEEEE are never ever ever!

Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#188 - 2014-07-31 15:23:14 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

The State all believe in wayism and meritocracy, just have different views on how it should be applied....


Not all Caldari are wayists Mr. Fredfredbug4, and not all Caldari believe in our Meritocracy (ask a provist.)

Your mother should have informed you of these things, and furthermore, (unless you were intentionally trying to reinforce the stereotype of Gallente ignorance) I suggest you do even a moment of homework before making claims about Nations or cultures outside the federation.

Do not think the Federation has a monopoly on diversity or the freedom to it. The Federation simply has a unique way of handling (like each nation.)

-V
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#189 - 2014-07-31 17:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Vizage wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

The State all believe in wayism and meritocracy, just have different views on how it should be applied....


Not all Caldari are wayists Mr. Fredfredbug4, and not all Caldari believe in our Meritocracy (ask a provist.)


Frankly, they really should. Show me a Caldari who has rejected the ways of our ancestors and I'll show you someone who isn't really Caldari.

Caldari really is more than a convenient catch-all term that you can use to refer to Civire, Deteis and Achura.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#190 - 2014-07-31 18:19:34 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Vizage wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

The State all believe in wayism and meritocracy, just have different views on how it should be applied....


Not all Caldari are wayists Mr. Fredfredbug4, and not all Caldari believe in our Meritocracy (ask a provist.)


Frankly, they really should. Show me a Caldari who has rejected the ways of our ancestors and I'll show you someone who isn't really Caldari.

Caldari really is more than a convenient catch-all term that you can use to refer to Civire, Deteis and Achura.


Faint echoes of a Hethian shadow Mr. Tuulinen.

Faint Echoes.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#191 - 2014-07-31 18:58:44 UTC
Being for the Caldari doesn't mean having to be against everyone else.

Frankly, I don't care if people want to abandon the ways of our ancestors and embrace Jaiiji concepts and beliefs - the marketplace of ideas will adjudicate their fitness, after all - but if you don't follow the Way, if you don't embrace the concept of meritocracy, can you really call yourself Caldari?

There are plenty of sons and daughters of the Deteis and Civire who do not. They are not Caldari. This is not the Federation. We are not inclusive.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2014-07-31 19:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Elmund Egivand wrote:


That is very enlightening. So Democracy exists to ensure every group has a shot in getting a piece of the pie, I take it?


That's correct. It's not 100% flawless, no form of government is. Some people will inevitably get more pie than others, but Democracy guarantees that you will get part of it. Typically proportionate to the amount of people who share your beliefs.

Vizage wrote:


Not all Caldari are wayists Mr. Fredfredbug4, and not all Caldari believe in our Meritocracy (ask a provist.)

Your mother should have informed you of these things, and furthermore, (unless you were intentionally trying to reinforce the stereotype of Gallente ignorance) I suggest you do even a moment of homework before making claims about Nations or cultures outside the federation.

Do not think the Federation has a monopoly on diversity or the freedom to it. The Federation simply has a unique way of handling (like each nation.)

-V


After seeing what the Provist did to the State, I can safely say they are anything but Caldari.

I never claimed that we have a monopoly on diversity. Just that we have significantly more of it than anyone else. Visit a busy Federation station someday and I guarantee you will see my point.

Not only that, but we preserve this diversity. For an outsider to become Caldari you have to embrace Caldari ideals wholeheartedly with extreme dedication. For an outsider to become Minmatar, they have to live among the tribes for decades. For an outsider to become Amarr, they have to submit 100% to the Faith.

For an outsider to join the Federation? Hop off the ship and pass a citizenship test.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#193 - 2014-07-31 19:11:54 UTC
Wayism is hardly a prerequisite. Many of the principles within are available to any and all out there, not so much different from meritocracy. We may not be inclusive, but nor are we homogenous.

I don't think any but Kimmy who would claim I am not Caldari.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#194 - 2014-07-31 19:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizage
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Being for the Caldari doesn't mean having to be against everyone else.

Frankly, I don't care if people want to abandon the ways of our ancestors and embrace Jaiiji concepts and beliefs - the marketplace of ideas will adjudicate their fitness, after all - but if you don't follow the Way, if you don't embrace the concept of meritocracy, can you really call yourself Caldari?

There are plenty of sons and daughters of the Deteis and Civire who do not. They are not Caldari. This is not the Federation. We are not inclusive.


Mr. Tuulinen I only wish to point out that the last man to claim who was "True Caldari" and who was not, was chased out of our state.

We value competition or at least that has how I have always viewed our people. Competition requires a degree of diversity in thought and action.

That said I don't think such and exclusive definition of who is justifiably Caldari and who isn't is correct.

-V
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#195 - 2014-07-31 20:23:15 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Wayism is hardly a prerequisite. Many of the principles within are available to any and all out there, not so much different from meritocracy. We may not be inclusive, but nor are we homogenous.

I don't think any but Kimmy who would claim I am not Caldari.


Well, that's not quite the same thing, Jinari. Pretty much every Caldari I've met holds to some form of Wayism, but it's a brave person who claims to understand precisely what is and isn't Wayist. Personally I let the priests worry about that - I have my beliefs and they do me right. I'm not going to tell you that your version of Wayism is wrong.

But you know what they say about those who, for example, embrace the Amarrian faith whilst still claiming to be Amarrian. The people tend to have the last word on matters such as this and whilst they do so, often, without words their silence is deafening.

You certainly feel Caldari to me. Not that I'm holding myself up as an expert on the subject.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#196 - 2014-07-31 20:32:03 UTC
Vizage wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Being for the Caldari doesn't mean having to be against everyone else.

Frankly, I don't care if people want to abandon the ways of our ancestors and embrace Jaiiji concepts and beliefs - the marketplace of ideas will adjudicate their fitness, after all - but if you don't follow the Way, if you don't embrace the concept of meritocracy, can you really call yourself Caldari?

There are plenty of sons and daughters of the Deteis and Civire who do not. They are not Caldari. This is not the Federation. We are not inclusive.


Mr. Tuulinen I only wish to point out that the last man to claim who was "True Caldari" and who was not, was chased out of our state.

We value competition or at least that has how I have always viewed our people. Competition requires a degree of diversity in thought and action.

That said I don't think such and exclusive definition of who is justifiably Caldari and who isn't is correct.

-V


Oh, I know, Miss. I was one of the ones who did the chasing.

But Tibus Heth trampled the rights of the Citizen. He sought to nationalise the Corporations. He embezzled and squandered the wealth of his constituents and sought the primacy of one narrow definition of Caldari over all the other definitions.

That said... If you worship other Gods or Spirits... If you believe in an Aristocracy or Nepotism... Those are not Caldari ideas or ideals, are they? Of course how you espouse them will determine how you're treated - but it is not any one Caldari who decides what is or isn't Caldari, it's all of us together.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#197 - 2014-08-02 16:09:49 UTC
DeT Resprox wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Ascentior wrote:
So it is true, the band of terrorists known as Ushra'Khan have finally put aside the attempt to hide their true intentions behind so called saving their people and come clean as simple, paid killers.
A bounty on the head of PIE Officers? As if the insignia itself weren't bounty enough to all the reprobates that support the terrorist, Shakor.

Not exactly killers, sir.
Just terrorists, who can't even kill themselves and pay others to do it.



You seem as misinformed as some of the Amarr young Caldari.

It is the Ushra'Khan who are being paid to take out commanding officers within the Amarr as detailed in our campaign brief.

Though that is not to say that mercenaries would not be hired for future operations......i hear some pilots within the Federation have been looking for work.


I am sorry, then I just misunderstood you, when it was written that "bounties have been placed".
From professional point of view, I imagined it, that you have placed bounty and was advertising it for bounty hunters to claim them.

This is rather... unusual situation, that you are advertising that bounties were placed for you actually by someone. That reverse order advertising doesn't really make sense to me. What is a professional reason to tell it? Moreover, to tell it to everyone without request, while usually such information professionals keep holding for themselves.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#198 - 2014-08-02 16:18:11 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

A couple of pirate ships in a huge minmatar blob considers themselves "major defending force"?
Really?


Not that I don't enjoy the whole smacking left and right, but can us amused spectators get some kind of numbers there?
Just for reference.

Mr. Caine, if I bring numbers from battle report of a certain encounter, they would blame me in bias and choosing only single situation (besides, there were a lot of engagements without them at all). If I start listing every engagement, I will be probably moderated for spam.

For reference I could simply send to battle reports, and as I was myself there and participated in quite number of fights, I can just say, that most of the time I saw wartargets, with only couple of neutrals in fleets supporting them. That kind of "smacking", well, please excuse me, I simply get irritated by people, who boast and think about themselves too much and take credit for other peoples work, even if I must hate and fight these other peoples and destroy them on contact.

If you really interested in this case and want to measure involvement of said pirated in conflict on side of minmatars, feel free to contact me with NeoCom and I will make sure to collect necessary information for you, and provide other help if it will be required.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#199 - 2014-08-02 16:39:38 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Being for the Caldari doesn't mean having to be against everyone else.

Frankly, I don't care if people want to abandon the ways of our ancestors and embrace Jaiiji concepts and beliefs - the marketplace of ideas will adjudicate their fitness, after all - but if you don't follow the Way, if you don't embrace the concept of meritocracy, can you really call yourself Caldari?

There are plenty of sons and daughters of the Deteis and Civire who do not. They are not Caldari. This is not the Federation. We are not inclusive.

My mother was never a wayist and believed in teaching about Creator. If you wish to tell me she wasn't Caldari, then at least face me and say it looking into my eyes.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

But Tibus Heth trampled the rights of the Citizen. He sought to nationalise the Corporations. He embezzled and squandered the wealth of his constituents and sought the primacy of one narrow definition of Caldari over all the other definitions.

Caldari would never say THIS about greatest Caldari hero. Unless, of course, he was brainwashed by gallenteans, who always try to make Caldari WEAK.

Weaklings, who allow themselves to be brainwashed by gallentean lies about our greatest hero, don't deserve to be called Caldari anymore.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#200 - 2014-08-02 16:59:12 UTC
So damn near every citizen of the State aren't Caldari then. That's... nifty.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.