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Faction Standing Warning

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Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#41 - 2014-07-19 21:11:09 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Which part looked awful?

The missions.

The Plan wrote:

Start working 'The Plan' with the Empire Faction that has the lowest amount of negative Faction Standing above -5.00 (-4.99 or higher) and complete the 10 part mission series for each of the 15 Career Agents in that specific Faction.

Career Agents
After working the Career Agents, complete one round of the Circle Agent missions for that same specific Faction.

Circle Agents
After completing one round of the Circle Agent missions, now work the level 1 Data Center 'Graduation Certificate' missions for the same specific Faction. After completing the 3rd 'Cert' mission, take one of the certs to the Agent listed on the certificate. That Agent will offer a multi part Storyline mission which will introduce another Event Agent.

Data Centers
After completing those missions, turn in Pirate Tags to complete the rest of the Level 1 Data Center Agents. Don't speak to these Agents until ready with the required amount of Tags. Pirate Tags can be found in the wrecks of Pirate NPC's killed at Asteroid Belts, Cosmic Signature and Cosmic Anomaly exploration sites.


I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arec Bardwin
#42 - 2014-07-19 21:55:12 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.
Then don't interact with NPCs. Simple, huh?
Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
#43 - 2014-07-19 22:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Yee Ant
Reaction to faction standing currently depends on whether or not you are flying a ship, or in a pod, while a sensible compromise would be to offer immunity to freighters/miners/diplomaticbags. This would greatly alleviate the unnecessary restrictions upon innocent capsuleers hithertoo lead astray.

Even better, offer limited time based immunity of conducting a mission on behalf of a corp which is part of a faction in whom you have negatove standings. After all, what local copper would arrest you if you could prove you were working for them?

Of course the optimal solution would be for CCP to admit that certain factions are hopelessly corrupt and for a certain quantity of iskies dropped in a certain bank account the tracking records of previous misdemeanors have been lost, accidentally shredded with last years coffee machine selection (CMS) commitee report.

Obvious flaws in the system exist, we need more loopholes.
Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
#44 - 2014-07-20 04:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Yossarian Toralen
http://prntscr.com/44fqfy

Here is a screenshot of mission that you get a faction standings loss of -2.4%.

While some people will say I'm stupid for not realising that shooting a Caldari ship will result in a standings loss, some missions allow you to shoot opposing factions without any penalty so it's not even consistant.

Transperancy is the issue here, nowhere on that mission window does it state that I will receive a standings loss for completing the mission, only that I can from declining it.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-07-20 05:32:48 UTC
Zappity wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Which part looked awful?

The missions.

I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.

Well, obviously it took time to incur the negative standings so it will also take time to repair them as well. Basically 'The Plan' outlines the easiest and quickest way to repair standings, especially since every single Event Agent listed in it gives Faction standing increase.

Arec Bardwin wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.
Then don't interact with NPCs. Simple, huh?
Big smile
Exactly.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
#46 - 2014-07-20 07:37:25 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Zappity wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Which part looked awful?

The missions.

I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.

Well, obviously it took time to incur the negative standings so it will also take time to repair them as well. Basically 'The Plan' outlines the easiest and quickest way to repair standings, especially since every single Event Agent listed in it gives Faction standing increase.

Arec Bardwin wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.
Then don't interact with NPCs. Simple, huh?
Big smile
Exactly.


DMC


It takes time to incur security standings loss, but you can fix that in minutes, as many times as you can afford, I guess there should be a ganking tutorial when you start the game.

The game starts you off interacting with NPC's, so avoiding NPC's would be quite difficult while you're learning how to play this game.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2014-07-20 07:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Yossarian Toralen wrote:
http://prntscr.com/44fqfy

Here is a screenshot of mission that you get a faction standings loss of -2.4%.

While some people will say I'm stupid for not realising that shooting a Caldari ship will result in a standings loss, some missions allow you to shoot opposing factions without any penalty so it's not even consistant.

Transperancy is the issue here, nowhere on that mission window does it state that I will receive a standings loss for completing the mission, only that I can from declining it.


"...and kill all the Caldari in the area..."

Does that sound after a mission that gives you positive standing with Caldari?

I know there are countries where the people incapacitate themselves by demanding warning labels for everything that could go wrong while using the product in question. Please do not try to introduce that into a virtual reality with no impact on real life.

It is common sense that if you shoot the Caldari - they wont give you a prize.
The Caldari are allied with the Amarr so if you shoot an Amarr - neither of them will be especially thrilled.

This is really a very simple concept and makes intuitive decision making easy.

If you have trouble with that then you should rather try to gain some cognitive abilities rather than wasting your time reclaming that CCP should dull down the mechanics to a level of your comprehension.
I would recomend this online training programm for a start.

If I have been rude before I wont apologize - the forum police clearly worked hard for the retrieval of your honor anyway.
I will not be rude to You again but just plain honest.
Fly save

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
#48 - 2014-07-20 10:51:02 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Yossarian Toralen wrote:
http://prntscr.com/44fqfy

Here is a screenshot of mission that you get a faction standings loss of -2.4%.

While some people will say I'm stupid for not realising that shooting a Caldari ship will result in a standings loss, some missions allow you to shoot opposing factions without any penalty so it's not even consistant.

Transperancy is the issue here, nowhere on that mission window does it state that I will receive a standings loss for completing the mission, only that I can from declining it.


"...and kill all the Caldari in the area..."

Does that sound after a mission that gives you positive standing with Caldari?

I know there are countries where the people incapacitate themselves by demanding warning labels for everything that could go wrong while using the product in question. Please do not try to introduce that into a virtual reality with no impact on real life.

It is common sense that if you shoot the Caldari - they wont give you a prize.
The Caldari are allied with the Amarr so if you shoot an Amarr - neither of them will be especially thrilled.

This is really a very simple concept and makes intuitive decision making easy.

If you have trouble with that then you should rather try to gain some cognitive abilities rather than wasting your time reclaming that CCP should dull down the mechanics to a level of your comprehension.
I would recomend this online training programm for a start.

If I have been rude before I wont apologize - the forum police clearly worked hard for the retrieval of your honor anyway.
I will not be rude to You again but just plain honest.
Fly save


Nice rant, did you read my post and understand it?

From your post just now it is apparent that you didn't You just feel that it is your right to insult people on forums, not add to a thread or do anything that is of any value at all.

Was there a point to your first post that the mods deleted or this one?

And to be honest, the forum police defended your honour, not mine.

ps. by the look of your spelling you come from the country that has warning labels on everything, no freedom of speech here, are you crying because the nasty man took away a useless post?
Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
#49 - 2014-07-20 11:06:39 UTC
I don't think anyone is contesting that actions have consequences, but the lack of the notion of time served, or of progressive return to acceptability as time goes on, of forgiveness and corruption, which are very human and true to life traits, means that Eve lacks realism, even while players insist the opposite is true.

It has been mentioned that the reputation system lacks refinement, surely we all agree on that?
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2014-07-20 16:29:59 UTC
Yee Ant wrote:
I don't think anyone is contesting that actions have consequences, but the lack of the notion of time served, or of progressive return to acceptability as time goes on, of forgiveness and corruption, which are very human and true to life traits, means that Eve lacks realism, even while players insist the opposite is true.

It has been mentioned that the reputation system lacks refinement, surely we all agree on that?

Yes.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-07-20 18:09:21 UTC
It's not like EVE isn't loaded up with warnings for entering low-sec or undocking without an up-to-date clone or placing high buy orders etc etc etc. A small line that says "Warning: this mission may damage standings with XXX faction" in the mission description would be welcome.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-07-20 19:30:05 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Quote:
This is an important mission, which will have significant impact on your faction standings.


Every mission which has an effect on your faction standings has the above warning. It does not state whether the effect is good or bad - you can see that for yourself when you follow up on the warning by checking the resulting change in standing when completing said mission.

You're expecting people to actually read? It's more fun not to then complain in the forms.
Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
#53 - 2014-07-20 19:42:58 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Quote:
This is an important mission, which will have significant impact on your faction standings.


Every mission which has an effect on your faction standings has the above warning. It does not state whether the effect is good or bad - you can see that for yourself when you follow up on the warning by checking the resulting change in standing when completing said mission.

You're expecting people to actually read? It's more fun not to then complain in the forms.



Everything you do in Eve effects your faction standings, whether or not you interact with npcs. Even mining effects your faction standings and we do not have a tictchy bit of text you need a magnifying glass to read reminding you to check your standings have not moved from -.4.99 to -.5.

We need something more visible, more painful/rewarding at every change in standing. Fireworks and a shock collar maybe...

Anyway, you are being supercilicious. Only missions warn you about your potential faction standings, and even then, does nto take into account more subtle shifts. The network of faction reps is more akin to a cymbal balanced on a thimble, drop a grain of sand anywhere and all faction standings are afected in some way, for good or for bad.

A skinflint graphists tiny bit of text supposed to warn players is a joke, and I agree with a strong rep system, problem is players and ai factions have insufficient ways of responding to faction status, other than the current pass/fail system..
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-07-20 23:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Standings is the only thing in the game that prevents people subbing up for 6 months and then doing nothing but set skills training every week or two before coming back to an instant ISK making machine capable of level IVs, FW plexs and incursions without having ever left dock. (I suppose in theory you can qualify for a Titan that way as well but good luck getting someone to fleet with you if you have never flown before)

The ability to train for years with no ingame interaction is one of the flaws of the EVE skill system and wanting to bypass standings is a bad thing.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-07-20 23:45:41 UTC
Zappity wrote:


I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.


Faction war is in essence PvP with a bit of "arena" style limited PvP allowed.

If you want to PvP just start roaming losec looking for trouble. Standings only matter for PvE actvities like FW and missions.
Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
#56 - 2014-07-21 00:18:26 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Zappity wrote:


I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.


Faction war is in essence PvP with a bit of "arena" style limited PvP allowed.

If you want to PvP just start roaming losec looking for trouble. Standings only matter for PvE actvities like FW and missions.

FW=PVE?

news to me..
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-07-21 00:34:31 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
OP....

Go play something else. Problem solved...

Yeah that's really what we want to be encouraging. Roll

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-07-21 00:38:01 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
It is common sense that if you shoot the Caldari - they wont give you a prize.
The Caldari are allied with the Amarr so if you shoot an Amarr - neither of them will be especially thrilled.
You're talking as if 'Caldari' and 'Amarr' were actual people.

You may have taken the 'EVE is real' slogan a bit too seriously.

New players that still understand it's just a game see them for what they really are: little red crosses on a computer screen. That the game itself suggested that they should shoot, exactly as the tutorials suggested they should board a ship in space and dock it up.

So no, I'm afraid standings mechanics are definitely not 'common sense'; they're just rules that CCP made up and could not be bothered to clearly explain themselves.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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