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Rattlesnake or Domi as next lvl 4 mission running ship.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-07-30 16:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:


You mean with missiles or guns?

What you quoted is my experience with guns. I have trouble getting anything to hit a frigate until I'm yellow boxed, at which point I can volley each one with a single paladin tach gun all day. Again, this is on first warp-in where angular velocity of the target is near-zero anyway.


Well, missiles and gunz work quite differently in this respect, you can hit stuff just sitting there because your turret doesnt have to rotate (tracking), missiles dont have turrets, they have their explosion speed and radius,long story short, there is certain (low) velocity of a target based on his sig radius and the missile used, that if the target exceeds, explosion velocity is taken into account in addition to radius, if it doesnt, it isnt, just the sig radius vs explosion radius.

Or just read it Missile Damage
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-07-30 16:31:52 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:


You mean with missiles or guns?

What you quoted is my experience with guns. I have trouble getting anything to hit a frigate until I'm yellow boxed, at which point I can volley each one with a single paladin tach gun all day. Again, this is on first warp-in where angular velocity of the target is near-zero anyway.


Well, missiles and gunz work quite differently in this respect, you can hit stuff just sitting there because your turret doesnt have to rotate (tracking), missiles dont have turrets, they have their explosion speed and radius,long story short, there is certain (low) velocity of a target based on his sig radius and the missile used, that if the target exceeds, explosion velocity is taken into account in addition to radius, if it doesnt, it isnt, just the sig radius vs explosion radius.

Or just read it Missile Damage

Yup, its what I was reading and I also have wolframalpha pulled up as well.
Val Karan
Knights of the Empire
#43 - 2014-07-30 16:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Val Karan
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:

That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.


The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs.



Alright doing a lot of number crunching and a bit of research at chruker.com, I'm starting to think I should use 2 tps and 1 omnilink instead of the other way around, since guns have the nice advantage of near-perfect tracking outside of 40km but missiles always seem to need help. And with angels it seems best just to stick to faction cruises rather than T2 cruises?

Is this common knowledge to stick to faction cruises when facing angels? As I've stated once before I really only have experience with guns, not missiles.

I believe, for most people that is considered... rocket science.

You can get perfect t2 damage if you let them orbit you (taxing for this fits tank) or have a webber/additional tps. I was thinking about fleeting with a buddy in a loki with a web, for example. Web my target, shoot a different one.

It only takes 3 navy cruise volleys + drone dps to kill the highest bounty battleships, probably 2 if you can apply fury cruise damage so a second rattle dualboxed or anything shooting the same target would most likely lead to wasted dps.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-07-30 21:53:45 UTC
Val Karan wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:

That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.


The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs.



Alright doing a lot of number crunching and a bit of research at chruker.com, I'm starting to think I should use 2 tps and 1 omnilink instead of the other way around, since guns have the nice advantage of near-perfect tracking outside of 40km but missiles always seem to need help. And with angels it seems best just to stick to faction cruises rather than T2 cruises?

Is this common knowledge to stick to faction cruises when facing angels? As I've stated once before I really only have experience with guns, not missiles.

I believe, for most people that is considered... rocket science.

You can get perfect t2 damage if you let them orbit you (taxing for this fits tank) or have a webber/additional tps. I was thinking about fleeting with a buddy in a loki with a web, for example. Web my target, shoot a different one.

It only takes 3 navy cruise volleys + drone dps to kill the highest bounty battleships, probably 2 if you can apply fury cruise damage so a second rattle dualboxed or anything shooting the same target would most likely lead to wasted dps.

I put together a spreadsheet taking into account sig radius and speed combinations, and holy **** fury DPS is really hard to apply, even with 2 target painters!
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-07-31 06:59:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:

I put together a spreadsheet taking into account sig radius and speed combinations, and holy **** fury DPS is really hard to apply, even with 2 target painters!


Yes and not entirely yes :)

Some things to keep in mind:

- big volley damage, thus smaller differences in dps matter less if all it does for example is make you waste 30 or 60% of the second volley
- the rats seem to pulse their mods for some reason, the mentioned angel bs seems in reality to cycle between 250 and 300 m/s, so the final "effective" speed to approximate towards should probably be less than the paper max speed, somewhere around 275 m/s for a 350 m/s bs
- some rats dont seem to accelerate past their orbit speed at all, probably has something to do with AI and their max attack range
- smaller rats will be killed fast with drones, the drones can help with the bs later, thus opening the consideration of faction cruises with lower overall damage that can work even without tps
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