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Dev blog: EVE Industry - All you want to know

First post First post First post
Author
Aineko Macx
#81 - 2014-07-18 07:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aineko Macx
- When multiple ME-affecting factors come together, are they multiplied together and the rounding takes place only after multiplication with the materials OR is one factor applied to materials, then rounded, then the next factor, rounded again, etc. ? And in the latter case, in which order?
- The rank data needs to go into the SDE or those YAML files (Steve?)

And it must be said: The goal of making industry simpler with the changes has clearly been missed.
Bellasarius Baxter
Zilog Enterprises
#82 - 2014-07-18 08:34:07 UTC
[quote=CCP Greyscale][
ME4 goes to ME -7%, and if ME4 is functionally perfect, ME-7% is also functionally perfect, at least as far as single-run jobs go.

[quote=Denidil]
Quote:
Invention only requires one run from a blueprint copy, and deducts it exactly as if you'd built from the blueprint


I would appreciate a crearification here too...
Does that mean that my considerable number of perfectly researched bpos of various types will no longer be perfect after the patch ??

Why in the name of all that is holy did you not convert bpos that are perfect to 0% waste ?

If this is true, that, on top of all the other changes, making standing moat, lots of skills nerfed, and so, it really makes me consider the viability of running my accounts.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2014-07-18 08:58:02 UTC
ViciousCycle wrote:
Quote:
And besides, what was "lost" was time to research something to a theoretical benefit (under the old system) which now has been converted into something that has actual benefit (and the top end benefit at that). I imagine for most if not all players, that so called "lost" time was not mutually exclusive to any other action thus nothing of any value was actually lost. Yet

RAGE



False. I bought two added accounts with RL euros for over two years to build my BPO portfolio. That's RL F'ing money and most of it is LOST.

Compensation? They aren't offering any at all.


You are terrible at math.

The minimal ME benefits from that massive research batch will probably take hundreds of years of manufacturing to be worth more ISK than what you would have gained by just selling PLEXes that you could have bought with that same RL money.

People like you are the reason why CCP is switching to 10-tier ME research scale.
Pap Uhotih
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2014-07-18 10:12:42 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
ViciousCycle wrote:
Quote:
And besides, what was "lost" was time to research something to a theoretical benefit (under the old system) which now has been converted into something that has actual benefit (and the top end benefit at that). I imagine for most if not all players, that so called "lost" time was not mutually exclusive to any other action thus nothing of any value was actually lost. Yet

RAGE



False. I bought two added accounts with RL euros for over two years to build my BPO portfolio. That's RL F'ing money and most of it is LOST.

Compensation? They aren't offering any at all.


You are terrible at math.

The minimal ME benefits from that massive research batch will probably take hundreds of years of manufacturing to be worth more ISK than what you would have gained by just selling PLEXes that you could have bought with that same RL money.

People like you are the reason why CCP is switching to 10-tier ME research scale.


The value and desirability of BPO's that are traded is based on the ME level. BPO's are an asset as much as any other in game item is an asset, that they can be used to make things is irrelevant to that in the same way that the value of the big red button is not linked to its functionality. BPO's have an attribute that players can alter, altering that value increased the isk value, if you could increase a number in the stats of any other item doing so would inevitably increase its value - the logical sense of it is irrelevant since humans do not value things based on logical criterea.

If CCP does something that significantly alters the value of players assets then there should be a bit of a fuss made as it is contrary to the basis of the Eve economy over all. Since industrialists tend to hang on to BPO's for long periods of time they probably do not realise what the isk value of their collections is nor how that will alter (and not by a small amount) due to the patch. Just because people dont trade in something every day does not make its value irrelevant.
Daler Industry
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2014-07-18 10:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Daler Industry
Im so sorry.. Ive read almost all these 5 pages and didnt get almost anything.. I have Industry(reduce the time) at 5 and Material Efficiency (reduce the source for building) at 5.. Does it mean that its not applied anymore? What to do, to stay in the same lvl of profit that I have right now? What skills, or what kind of bpo ME I should have?

Thanks.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#86 - 2014-07-18 10:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Greyscale
Bellasarius Baxter wrote:
I think (hope) ther is a typo in the dev blog:

Drones: Sized 1/2/3/40,

Should be 1/2/3/4, right ??

A couple clearifying questions:

1) Is the "blueprint must be present at a lab for research at a POS" thing going live.
2) What happens to bpos in research jobs running at a POS when the expansion is deployed ? Is it still to be found at the station after the job is finished, or will it be magically transported to the lab where it is being researched ?


- Nope, we've deliberately scaled capital-related stuff up a lot higher than sub-capital stuff. Fighter and fighter-bomber blueprints are rank 40
- Yes
- Blueprint will stay in the station during the transition, I believe

Alexander McKeon wrote:
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Two step wrote:
I don't think I missed it, but it would be good to mention what happens to jobs that are running when the patch happens


You are correct. This information will be in the patch notes, but for your convenience here it is:

Jobs installed or active during Crius deployment are dealt in the following manner:

  • Jobs that were installed before the patch still use the old pricing and time until delivered
  • Blueprints that are using Starbases remotely will be delivered to the station they were installed into, not the Starbase. This is a one-time only move, blueprints inserted after Crius will need to be moved to Starbases

So what happens if I have an ME 6 capital BPO currently in research at a POS?

A) It finishes research post-Crius, appears in station as an ME 7 BPO

or

B) It's converted to an ME 9 BPO mid-research job, the research is then 'complete' and it pops out in station at ME 9

or

C) It's converted to ME 9 mid-job, the research adds an extra level of ME, and an ME 10 BPO comes out into station?

These are all very different outcomes, and knowing what happens to the ME / PE of in-research BPOs with regards to the conversion would be very much appreciated.


C, and it will finish at whenever time it's currently scheduled to finish.

Dangeresque Too wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[quote=Dangeresque Too]
Not entirely sure what you're doing with the math there. By my reckoning your second column should be

2: 147%
3: 145.5%
4: 144%
5: 142.5%
6: 141%
7: 139.5%

Further, we're adding six and *then* converting as if it was a T1 blueprint at that point, so your mapping goes like this for existing T2 BPCs:

-4 -7% 139.5%
-3 -8% 138%
-2 -8% 138%
-1 -9% 136.5
0 -10% 135%
1 -10% 135%
2 -10% 135%


Sounds like you didn't quite understand what I had said (and I'm confused why you referenced 2 different sets of numbers for the 2nd column, which was labelled new, aka the result under the new patch)... lets see if I can explain this in more simple terms.

3 examples, and please, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I feel like the math is sound: (For organization sake lets call it a Dohicky, and for clarity sake, its the T2 variant of the item that has a base resource cost of 100 Thingimajigs)

Now with a basic T2 invented Dohicky BPC at -4 (additional 50% in waste) it will take 150 Thingimajigs to build, correct so far? This patch will update this BPC to new ME standards; adding 6, resulting in a value of ME 2 in the old system, and then applying the conversion, landing it at 7% range. So now under the new system, the base cost of a Dohicky is 150 Thingimajigs, then apply the 7% from the, lands it at 139.5 Thingimajigs, so yeah, under the new system in just terms of material cost, it will be cheaper (material wise) to build a Dohicky than it currently is in the old system currently on TQ.

Those numbers jive so far? Ok, good, lets apply that to say, a Dohicky BPC that was invented to a state of ME 0 (old/current TQ). This BPC requires 110 Thingimajigs to output a Dohicky (due to 10% waste), math still good here? Ok, so lets apply this with the new system. ME 0, add 6, results in ME 6 (still old system), convert to new system, gives you 9% (because any old ME value between 5 and 9 will result in 9%, as per dev blog). So this very same T2 Dohicky BPC at 9% now costs 136.5 Thingimajigs (150 base, subtract 9%), still good? This results in a 24% increase to material requires comparing old/current with the new system.

3rd example, say we have a T2 Dohicky BPC invented to ME 10, would only require 101 Thingimajigs to build (base being 100, and waste being something like .9% with ME 10). In the new system this lucky BPC gets set as a perfect 10, resulting in 10% reduction in material cost, therefore making a Dohicky (base of 150 Thingimajigs) cost 135 Thingimajigs. A more substantial 34% increase to material costs, right?

This is the one area that CCP has failed to actually respond with hard numbers, numbers which the rest of us can't produce ourselves until Sisi comes back online, which will be too late (not that it isn't too late already). I do multiple levels of T2 production from modules to rigs to ships, and it would be nice to know if I should stop building certain things until the patch hits or if I should either hold or sell all current stock due to potential changes to material requirements at the different levels the blueprints were that created these items (-4 for modules obviously, but have a quite a few marauders at -1 currently).


Ah, with you now yes, sorry. You are correct. The impact of decryptors on material use is significantly reduced under the new system (as it's moving by 1%/level rather than 10%/level). This is expected to be significantly overhauled as part of upcoming invention changes.

[quote=Clayton Forester]
--question: I have several T2 ship bps that have multiple runs, for example 2 runs 5 runs, etc.

From what I read, all T2 ship BPs are going to have only 1 run? So I'm losing runs on these BPs? Or are you going to give me say five T2 BPs with one run each to replace my one BP...
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#87 - 2014-07-18 11:00:47 UTC
Frankly I don't really have much sympathy for people with ME 1000 blueprints. If researching them to that level was useful, then you've already benefited from doing it and don't deserve additional freebies. And if it wasn't worth researching them, then you shouldn't be compensated for making bad decisions.
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
#88 - 2014-07-18 12:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir HyperChrist
2 questions:

1) what happens to the final ME/PE of bpo's in research during patch?
case 1: ME0 BPO in research to ME5, will it come out as ME5 or ME9?
case 2: ME5 in research to ME6, will it come out at ME6 (a degradation? to previous ME5) or ME9?
CCP Greyscale wrote:

C, and it will finish at whenever it's currently scheduled to finish.

CCP Greyscale: you replied to this in the previous post: are you aware you're degrading the BPO in some cases?

2) From the devblog:
Quote:
Do note that, because we are calculating percentage reductions on the job as a whole rather than per-run, there will be cases where multiple runs can realize hidden savings that weren't previously accessible.


As I look at it now, numbers have a similar chance of being rounded up when setting multi-run jobs. All my capital BPO's were perfect in that they always rounded down towards numbers that were the same as wasteless. If I'd known about this change earlier, I'd have gotten them to ME10. Even the ME9 that most of them will get, will incur waste when I set 2 capital ships buiding in 1 job. the 600 days that'll get them to ME10 after patch is ludicrous.

Since this "multi-run rounding" is a last-minute addition, could you take some time to tweak it more before you add it?

much appreciated
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#89 - 2014-07-18 12:12:43 UTC
Sir HyperChrist wrote:
2 questions:

1) what happens to the final ME/PE of bpo's in research during patch?
case 1: ME0 BPO in research to ME5, will it come out as ME5 or ME9?
case 2: ME5 in research to ME6, will it come out at ME6 (a degradation? to previous ME5) or ME9?
CCP Greyscale wrote:

C, and it will finish at whenever it's currently scheduled to finish.

CCP Greyscale: you replied to this in the previous post: are you aware you're degrading the BPO in some cases?

2) From the devblog:
Quote:
Do note that, because we are calculating percentage reductions on the job as a whole rather than per-run, there will be cases where multiple runs can realize hidden savings that weren't previously accessible.


As I look at it now, numbers have a similar chance of being rounded up when setting multi-run jobs. All my capital BPO's were perfect in that they always rounded down towards numbers that were the same as wasteless. If I'd known about this change earlier, I'd have gotten them to ME10. Even the ME9 that most of them will get, will incur waste when I set 2 capital ships buiding in 1 job. the 600 days that'll get them to ME10 after patch is ludicrous.

Since this "multi-run rounding" is a last-minute addition, could you take some time to tweak it more before you add it?

much appreciated


Sorry, edited original post to add the word "time" between "whenever" and "it's", that wasn't clear.

Case 1, ME5. Case 2, ME9. We take whatever level the blueprint was at when the job started, convert that, and then when the job finishes add however many levels (capped at level 10) it was in research for.

Multi-run has been in for a while and we're not expecting to make changes there specifically now. We want to see exactly how capital construction shakes out, and we might need to divide down components post-patch to smooth things out there.
Theo Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2014-07-18 12:20:27 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Frankly I don't really have much sympathy for people with ME 1000 blueprints. If researching them to that level was useful, then you've already benefited from doing it and don't deserve additional freebies. And if it wasn't worth researching them, then you shouldn't be compensated for making bad decisions.


As opposed to those players who can at this moment research a BPO to lvl 10 and save a years worth of research. What's your thought on CCP gifting that free research time?

'Additional freebies'? It is a nerf to everyone holding decently researched BPOs. The only people (including myself) to benefit from the changes are those who are getting something for nothing. Although I guess the real losers are the new players who will have to 'pay' to get their BPO's researched.

PS The conversion of the blueprints is a easy fix by CCP and has very little to do with trying to fairly convert the blueprints. Free cake anyone?
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
#91 - 2014-07-18 12:30:11 UTC
Thankyou Greyscale.

I'm still digesting the last devblog and I found a very small thingy that at first seemed to apply only to T2 bpc's as it's about converting invented bpc's. But then I read it again, and now I think you're targetting T2 BPO's too with this:
Quote:
Successful invention without decryptors now creates an ME-2%/TE-4% blueprint; material requirements for T2 items have been increased by 50% to balance this out as it means we’re no longer adding +50% materials due to negative ME, so that decryptor-less invention now requires 2% less materials than previously.

For such a large change you've not really been clear and transparant in the announcement :)

2 questions: (again)
1) Are T2 BPO's jobs gonna cost 35-50% (depending on the previous ME) more materials?
2) For drones (small T2 drone, needs 1 robotics and 1 guidance system) how is this gonna round?

I asked you this at a presentation/questions session last Fanfest. Tbh, I think putting invention next to T2 BPO's is a good thing to do. Even making all of it 35% more expensive, isn't gonna matter much for the people producing it all. The market will pay for it Twisted
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#92 - 2014-07-18 12:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DeODokktor
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Sorry, edited original post to add the word "time" between "whenever" and "it's", that wasn't clear.

Case 1, ME5. Case 2, ME9. We take whatever level the blueprint was at when the job started, convert that, and then when the job finishes add however many levels (capped at level 10) it was in research for.


Wow that's interesting.

So people can still get lvl10 prints with only a few days to spare then?
Take a cruiser blueprint to Me:1 (2 days)
Then install for 5 more (10 days, over patch cycle)..
me1 becomes +5%, then 5 more gets added on top to give +10%
So you get a +10% cruiser in 12 days worth of research :)...

I guess the upshot is that me5 capital prints that are put in now for 1 run will be me10 after they come out of the oven...

That is, if what your saying is the same as I understand it.
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
#93 - 2014-07-18 12:49:29 UTC
DeODokktor wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Sorry, edited original post to add the word "time" between "whenever" and "it's", that wasn't clear.

Case 1, ME5. Case 2, ME9. We take whatever level the blueprint was at when the job started, convert that, and then when the job finishes add however many levels (capped at level 10) it was in research for.


Wow that's interesting.

So people can still get lvl10 prints with only a few days to spare then?
Take a cruiser blueprint to Me:1 (2 days)
Then install for 5 more (10 days, over patch cycle)..
me1 becomes +5%, then 5 more gets added on top to give +10%
So you get a +10% cruiser in 12 days worth of research :)...

I guess the upshot is that me5 capital prints that are put in now for 1 run will be me10 after they come out of the oven...

That is, if what your saying is the same as I understand it.



That's how I read it too, and I made my preparations (tbh I assumed something like this would happen already the last month)
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#94 - 2014-07-18 13:03:50 UTC
I would be surprised if it worked that way.
Devs have been known to often get things wrong when explaining how they think it works ;P...

If someone would have found out about this 6 months ago they could have 10% cap prints after patch...
Not a lot of time left, but I might see about throwing in some cruisers for 1/1 and rushing a me5 install prior to patch ;P...
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#95 - 2014-07-18 13:04:34 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Dangeresque Too wrote:


3 examples, and please, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I feel like the math is sound: (For organization sake lets call it a Dohicky, and for clarity sake, its the T2 variant of the item that has a base resource cost of 100 Thingimajigs)

Now with a basic T2 invented Dohicky BPC at -4 (additional 50% in waste) it will take 150 Thingimajigs to build, correct so far? This patch will update this BPC to new ME standards; adding 6, resulting in a value of ME 2 in the old system, and then applying the conversion, landing it at 7% range. So now under the new system, the base cost of a Dohicky is 150 Thingimajigs, then apply the 7% from the, lands it at 139.5 Thingimajigs, so yeah, under the new system in just terms of material cost, it will be cheaper (material wise) to build a Dohicky than it currently is in the old system currently on TQ.

Those numbers jive so far? Ok, good, lets apply that to say, a Dohicky BPC that was invented to a state of ME 0 (old/current TQ). This BPC requires 110 Thingimajigs to output a Dohicky (due to 10% waste), math still good here? Ok, so lets apply this with the new system. ME 0, add 6, results in ME 6 (still old system), convert to new system, gives you 9% (because any old ME value between 5 and 9 will result in 9%, as per dev blog). So this very same T2 Dohicky BPC at 9% now costs 136.5 Thingimajigs (150 base, subtract 9%), still good? This results in a 24% increase to material requires comparing old/current with the new system.

3rd example, say we have a T2 Dohicky BPC invented to ME 10, would only require 101 Thingimajigs to build (base being 100, and waste being something like .9% with ME 10). In the new system this lucky BPC gets set as a perfect 10, resulting in 10% reduction in material cost, therefore making a Dohicky (base of 150 Thingimajigs) cost 135 Thingimajigs. A more substantial 34% increase to material costs, right?

This is the one area that CCP has failed to actually respond with hard numbers, numbers which the rest of us can't produce ourselves until Sisi comes back online, which will be too late (not that it isn't too late already).


Ah, with you now yes, sorry. You are correct. The impact of decryptors on material use is significantly reduced under the new system (as it's moving by 1%/level rather than 10%/level). This is expected to be significantly overhauled as part of upcoming invention changes.


So, to clarify, you are confirming that current T2 blueprints that have been run with decryptors (or researched) to get higher ME values will be significantly more expensive to produce until such a time as decryptors are fixed to better interact with the new system? So if I have them I better build them immediately? Or just wait an indefinite period of time until they do fix the enhanced T2 blueprints/costs before I think about building again?

I wasn't so much claiming the impact of decryptors being reduced, as the effect is the same on a researched BPO, but moreso the inequality with the "fix" for T2 blueprints to make up for -4... since it doesn't play nice with anything that was above -3.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#96 - 2014-07-18 13:16:53 UTC
Sir HyperChrist wrote:
Thankyou Greyscale.

I'm still digesting the last devblog and I found a very small thingy that at first seemed to apply only to T2 bpc's as it's about converting invented bpc's. But then I read it again, and now I think you're targetting T2 BPO's too with this:
Quote:
Successful invention without decryptors now creates an ME-2%/TE-4% blueprint; material requirements for T2 items have been increased by 50% to balance this out as it means we’re no longer adding +50% materials due to negative ME, so that decryptor-less invention now requires 2% less materials than previously.

For such a large change you've not really been clear and transparant in the announcement :)

2 questions: (again)
1) Are T2 BPO's jobs gonna cost 35-50% (depending on the previous ME) more materials?
2) For drones (small T2 drone, needs 1 robotics and 1 guidance system) how is this gonna round?

I asked you this at a presentation/questions session last Fanfest. Tbh, I think putting invention next to T2 BPO's is a good thing to do. Even making all of it 35% more expensive, isn't gonna matter much for the people producing it all. The market will pay for it Twisted


1) Yes.
2) Upwards, per unit. Acolyte II now requires 2 of most things (not the T1 drone obviously)

DeODokktor wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Sorry, edited original post to add the word "time" between "whenever" and "it's", that wasn't clear.

Case 1, ME5. Case 2, ME9. We take whatever level the blueprint was at when the job started, convert that, and then when the job finishes add however many levels (capped at level 10) it was in research for.


Wow that's interesting.

So people can still get lvl10 prints with only a few days to spare then?
Take a cruiser blueprint to Me:1 (2 days)
Then install for 5 more (10 days, over patch cycle)..
me1 becomes +5%, then 5 more gets added on top to give +10%
So you get a +10% cruiser in 12 days worth of research :)...

I guess the upshot is that me5 capital prints that are put in now for 1 run will be me10 after they come out of the oven...

That is, if what your saying is the same as I understand it.


Yes, that math looks legit. There's a lot of generosity being done in numeric terms to avoid hurting anyone's absolute blueprint numbers. Two side-effects of this are that 1) people are getting a lot of stuff "for free" in the transition, which may cause us legacy headaches in a few years, and 2) some people are losing relative advantage. We judged that this ends up being a better option than eg nerfing blueprint absolute numbers to base off time spent or whatever - people will be unhappy either way, but at least this way nothing is being *directly* nerfed.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And with Crius, so endeth the high sec manufacturer.

Brilliant CCP.

PCU is at its lowest in years, and this is BEFORE all the casual players who don't read many forums get slammed.
I really hope that the null sec cartels follow through with their promises to you of more null sec accounts firing up, because you are going to lose a ton from high sec.

But of course, that is all part of the ongoing campaign to make high sec an ISK wasteland.


Make a prediction (with numbers) and we'll see how it pans out.

Dangeresque Too wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[quote=Dangeresque Too]

3 examples, and please, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I feel like the math is sound: (For organization sake lets call it a Dohicky, and for clarity sake, its the T2 variant of the item that has a base resource cost of 100 Thingimajigs)

Now with a basic T2 invented Dohicky BPC at -4 (additional 50% in waste) it will take 150 Thingimajigs to build, correct so far? This patch will update this BPC to new ME standards; adding 6, resulting in a value of ME 2 in the old system, and then applying the conversion, landing it at 7% range. So now under the new system, the base cost of a Dohicky is 150 Thingimajigs, then apply the 7% from the, lands it at 139.5 Thingimajigs, so yeah, under the new system in just terms of material cost, it will be cheaper (material wise) to build a Dohicky than it currently is in the old system currently on TQ.

Those numbers jive so far? Ok, good, lets apply that to say, a Dohicky BPC that was invented to a state of ME 0 (old/current TQ). This BPC requires 110 Thingimajigs to output a Dohicky (due to 10% waste), math still good here? Ok, so lets apply this with the new system. ME 0, add 6, results in ME 6 (still old system), convert to new system, gives you 9% (because any old ME value between 5 and 9 will result in 9%, as per dev blog). So this very same T2 Dohicky BPC at 9% now costs 136.5 Thingimajigs (150 base, subtract 9%), still good? This results in a 24% increase to material requires comparing old/current with the new system.

3rd example, say we have a T2 Dohicky BPC invented to ME 10, would only require 101 Thingimajigs to build (base being 100, and waste being something like .9% with ME 10). In the new system this lucky BPC gets set as a perfect 10, resulting in 10% reduction in material cost, therefore making a Dohicky (base of 150 Thingimajigs) cost 135 Thingimajigs. A more substantial 34% increase to material costs, right?

This is the one area that CCP has failed to actually respond with hard numbers, numbers which the rest of us can't produce ourselves until Sisi comes back online, which will be too late (not that it isn't too late already).


Ah, with you now yes, sorry. You are correct. The impact of decryptors on material use is significantly reduced under the new system (as it's moving by 1%/level rather than 10%/level). This is expected to be significantly overhauled as part of upcoming invention changes.


So, to clarify, you are confirming that current T2 blueprints that have been run with decryptors (or researched) to get higher ME values will be significantly more expensive to produce...
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2014-07-18 13:26:10 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Sorry, edited original post to add the word "time" between "whenever" and "it's", that wasn't clear.

Case 1, ME5. Case 2, ME9. We take whatever level the blueprint was at when the job started, convert that, and then when the job finishes add however many levels (capped at level 10) it was in research for.

:argh:

so much prepatch research done on the wrong assumption about the changeover
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#98 - 2014-07-18 13:27:39 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Yes, that math looks legit. There's a lot of generosity being done in numeric terms to avoid hurting anyone's absolute blueprint numbers. Two side-effects of this are that 1) people are getting a lot of stuff "for free" in the transition, which may cause us legacy headaches in a few years, and 2) some people are losing relative advantage. We judged that this ends up being a better option than eg nerfing blueprint absolute numbers to base off time spent or whatever - people will be unhappy either way, but at least this way nothing is being *directly* nerfed.



A bit odd and generous (those who knew about it ahead of time will benefit greatly!)...
I would have expected one two things to happen, and neither was that.

So
Me:1 +5r = 10%
Me:2 +3r = 10%
Me:3/4 +2r = 10%
Me:5+ +1r = 10%

Def interesting.


Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2014-07-18 13:32:34 UTC
DeODokktor wrote:
I would be surprised if it worked that way.
Devs have been known to often get things wrong when explaining how they think it works ;P...

If someone would have found out about this 6 months ago they could have 10% cap prints after patch...
Not a lot of time left, but I might see about throwing in some cruisers for 1/1 and rushing a me5 install prior to patch ;P...

everyone with caps was already researching their bpos

though had i known about this, i'd have researched slightly differently, but we still learned in time to cancel/redo jobs
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#100 - 2014-07-18 13:42:42 UTC
So in this new system, material and time will both have base levels of 1-10?
I only ask because if the conversion system is working on 1-20 then that would mean something that's converted and then has 1 run added would be in between research levels.

For example.
Charon PL:1 with 1r Installed
1 -> 5, 5+1 = 6 (12%)
-or-
is it 1->10, 10+1 = 11 (11%)

I am guessing 12%.
Me:1 (5%) +1r also means you miss out on conversion to 7%, so some people will be a little left out.