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Naga for nullsec ratting (Sansha)

Author
Jeremy Fischer1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-07-17 11:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Fischer1
Hello peoples! There's not much reliable information on this subject other than the obvious, the Naga has no drones and a paper thin tank.... Couple people have said it will be fine, others say no go for solo. In my mind it seems to be fine, 60-80km optimal range, what npc frigate is going to close that distance before I kill them? Specially while I'm burning away from them, at 500 m/s doing tons of deeps.
I wanted a ship with BS fire power but not the cost as I just can't justify a 200m+ lose on my KB, if I where to lose the ship. It's nullsec after all, I safe up at any sign of nuets in system but you never know! I wanted to get out of my Drake(crap dps) and try out this Naga in nullsec anoms and belts. Here's the fit, any thoughts?

High slots
425mm prototype gauss gun x 8

Medium slots
limited EM ward field x2
Limited Therm field x 1
Large shield extender II x2
Experimental 10mn afterburner x1

Low slots

Magnetic field stabilizer II x3

Rigs
Medium Ancillary current router I x2 (low SP)
Medium anti thermal screen x1

70%+ Em and Therm resistance because Sansha rats.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-07-17 12:01:38 UTC
the oracle would work a LOT better for this,
Jeremy Fischer1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-07-17 12:06:04 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
the oracle would work a LOT better for this,

I literally have no Amarr or laser turret training, plus lasers can't change damage type from what I understand.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#4 - 2014-07-17 12:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeltstome
Jeremy Fischer1 wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
the oracle would work a LOT better for this,

I literally have no Amarr or laser turret training, plus lasers can't change damage type from what I understand.


Get a Talos. Tracking will literally kill you once frigates get close (the fast you move, the faster they move. GLHF you're dead to a few 20k rats...)

P.S. Get a HAC - much better than a BC for ratting.

EDIT: Hybrids can't change damage type either...
Jeremy Fischer1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-07-17 12:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Fischer1
Maeltstome wrote:
Jeremy Fischer1 wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
the oracle would work a LOT better for this,

I literally have no Amarr or laser turret training, plus lasers can't change damage type from what I understand.


Get a Talos. Tracking will literally kill you once frigates get close (the fast you move, the faster they move. GLHF you're dead to a few 20k rats...)

P.S. Get a HAC - much better than a BC for ratting.

EDIT: Hybrids can't change damage type either...

Each ammo type does more of one type of damage and less of the other, I call that switching damage types. Maybe not like missles, but meh. Talos isn't long range based, won't it get picked off by the BS rats? And I'm low SP 2.5mil , so t2 cruisers are out. Otherwise I would just fly a VNI.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#6 - 2014-07-17 12:21:04 UTC
sansha resist holes are primarily em and secondary thermal. a naga has good range but an oracle does em/therm damage.

also armor tank has better em/therm resists and smaller sig that means better natural tank in an oracle and you can use mids for extra range/tracking and sebos. range tank best tank.

so yes while a naga will work perfectly fine, oracle is better.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7 - 2014-07-17 12:22:55 UTC
oh and lasers also change the ratio of em to therm as you change ammo (instant ammo swap fyi)

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Jeremy Fischer1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-07-17 12:25:15 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
sansha resist holes are primarily em and secondary thermal. a naga has good range but an oracle does em/therm damage.

also armor tank has better em/therm resists and smaller sig that means better natural tank in an oracle and you can use mids for extra range/tracking and sebos. range tank best tank.

so yes while a naga will work perfectly fine, oracle is better.

Cool, thanks for the information, didn't know that.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#9 - 2014-07-17 12:43:37 UTC
eh ive checked the numbers on eft and because of the range bonus on the naga it will work pretty good. just stick to the lower class anoms and work your way up as your skills increase. warp to 100 and use faction ammo.

if you work on gunnery support skills and fitting skills you will improve both naga and oracle.

pop me a mail in game if you need help.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Jeremy Fischer1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-07-17 12:50:25 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
eh ive checked the numbers on eft and because of the range bonus on the naga it will work pretty good. just stick to the lower class anoms and work your way up as your skills increase. warp to 100 and use faction ammo.

if you work on gunnery support skills and fitting skills you will improve both naga and oracle.

pop me a mail in game if you need help.


Yep, what I had planned. Was going to start out in rally points since that's what I was doing in my Drake, and sure thing. Never hurts to have more people in game to talk to! My main concern was the frigates, since the Naga really has no way to deal with them. But with it's 10% range bonus per level, that puts me at 80km I believe with the right ammo and skills. That's alot of distance for a frigate to cover, specially a npc frigate.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#11 - 2014-07-17 13:16:12 UTC
see thats the beauty of guns. if something is flying straight at you (transversal is close to zero) then you are pretty much guaranteed to alpha them in a single volley. heck id even split the guns into two groups of 4 each and blap em two at a time.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#12 - 2014-07-17 15:31:20 UTC
Jeremy Fischer1 wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Jeremy Fischer1 wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
the oracle would work a LOT better for this,

I literally have no Amarr or laser turret training, plus lasers can't change damage type from what I understand.


Get a Talos. Tracking will literally kill you once frigates get close (the fast you move, the faster they move. GLHF you're dead to a few 20k rats...)

P.S. Get a HAC - much better than a BC for ratting.

EDIT: Hybrids can't change damage type either...

Each ammo type does more of one type of damage and less of the other, I call that switching damage types. Maybe not like missles, but meh. Talos isn't long range based, won't it get picked off by the BS rats? And I'm low SP 2.5mil , so t2 cruisers are out. Otherwise I would just fly a VNI.


Please, PLEASE don't fly battlecruisers. 2.5M Sp i can garuntee you will die.

Get back into frigates and starting getting T2 modules and Hulls. Those skills you're skipping to cram your under-skilled toon into a pointlessly oversized ship will be the skills that you'll wish you had when you start losing those BC's over and over.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#13 - 2014-07-17 16:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
SO I'm assuming you're talking about anomalies, hubs/havens.

Sansha rats only shoot out to 50-100km depending on type. So you're simply rangetanking them by setting up your ship to shoot out to 130-150k and shoot them from there. It also means that you don't need any real tank.

You shouldn't use a Naga for sansha rats, really get an oracle. Given you don't have t2 guns for the naga yet, the oracle won't be much different within 3-4 days training, which is basically the time you need to invest.
Reasoning: The bigger battleships have quite some recharge on their tank. Since you're running on low skills, you'll likely struggle to get significantly above 400dps at 110km+. Since BS tank something around 150ish, this leaves you with some netted 250dps. Blowing those dps via therm/kin though will have their recharge be more efficient and thus reduce the gap between dps and their tanking significantly, slowing down your income.

That's why the Oracle is the better choice right here. If you struggle achieving those numbers, you'll likely need a higher BC level or better gunnery support (motion prediction, sharpshooter, trajectory ana.) to let you use higher damage ammo at the same effective range.

Ed: If you're really low on SP and low on ISK, you might want to consider beltratting in a coercer. It's not the best, but still makes for 3-6mil ticks, potentially not much less than an oracle/naga would yield currently. Also, if you're tackled by a ceptor, you load scorch and two-shot it.
Jeremy Fischer1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-07-17 23:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Fischer1
Maeltstome wrote:
Jeremy Fischer1 wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Jeremy Fischer1 wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
the oracle would work a LOT better for this,

I literally have no Amarr or laser turret training, plus lasers can't change damage type from what I understand.


Get a Talos. Tracking will literally kill you once frigates get close (the fast you move, the faster they move. GLHF you're dead to a few 20k rats...)

P.S. Get a HAC - much better than a BC for ratting.

EDIT: Hybrids can't change damage type either...

Each ammo type does more of one type of damage and less of the other, I call that switching damage types. Maybe not like missles, but meh. Talos isn't long range based, won't it get picked off by the BS rats? And I'm low SP 2.5mil , so t2 cruisers are out. Otherwise I would just fly a VNI.


Please, PLEASE don't fly battlecruisers. 2.5M Sp i can garuntee you will die.

Get back into frigates and starting getting T2 modules and Hulls. Those skills you're skipping to cram your under-skilled toon into a pointlessly oversized ship will be the skills that you'll wish you had when you start losing those BC's over and over.



I've never lost a BC, and I've been flying them since I was in hisec. I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not going to wait 50 something days before I fly a isk making ship.(t2 cruisers) I pvp everyday, if I don't make isk I don't play the game. https://zkillboard.com/character/94658466/ I'm working on T2 shield hardeners, t2 propulsion and lvl5 gunnery supports right now. I've done plenty of anoms already in my drake, including Havens with my alliance, I'm not a complete newb. The reason I'm making a change is that the Drake does **** dps. And it takes forever to clear anything.

I had already bought a Naga before I ever made this thread, so there's no changing to a Oracle instead. At least not right now, I just wanted to get some outside opinions. ( I'm waiting for gunnery lvl5 to be done, which it will be today.)

And I actually have a Hyperion in empire space that I'm waiting for my t2 training to be complete for so I can do incursions. https://c99d420d550633bca410be54a2cd6912e677e497.googledrive.com/host/0B_iAPfXIcN1VVUpobmU0bFdCbXM/FittingsHome.html The nullsec ratting is temporary, I want to make real isk.

And actually there's these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXYVcTHGVOw Brutix, when I was still new in nullsec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZV8pQ18ids Drake, when I first got it and it was buffer fit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3LJotz91Ro Drake in a haven, passive fit with active hardeners
Jeremy Fischer1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-07-17 23:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Fischer1
Lloyd Roses wrote:
SO I'm assuming you're talking about anomalies, hubs/havens.

Sansha rats only shoot out to 50-100km depending on type. So you're simply rangetanking them by setting up your ship to shoot out to 130-150k and shoot them from there. It also means that you don't need any real tank.

You shouldn't use a Naga for sansha rats, really get an oracle. Given you don't have t2 guns for the naga yet, the oracle won't be much different within 3-4 days training, which is basically the time you need to invest.
Reasoning: The bigger battleships have quite some recharge on their tank. Since you're running on low skills, you'll likely struggle to get significantly above 400dps at 110km+. Since BS tank something around 150ish, this leaves you with some netted 250dps. Blowing those dps via therm/kin though will have their recharge be more efficient and thus reduce the gap between dps and their tanking significantly, slowing down your income.

That's why the Oracle is the better choice right here. If you struggle achieving those numbers, you'll likely need a higher BC level or better gunnery support (motion prediction, sharpshooter, trajectory ana.) to let you use higher damage ammo at the same effective range.

Ed: If you're really low on SP and low on ISK, you might want to consider beltratting in a coercer. It's not the best, but still makes for 3-6mil ticks, potentially not much less than an oracle/naga would yield currently. Also, if you're tackled by a ceptor, you load scorch and two-shot it.

Do lasers use gunnery supports? Also, the reason I'm hesitant about the Oracle is none of my alliance doctrine fits are Amarr or laser. So it's a waste of time for me, I don't want to cross train pve and pvp. Doing what I'm doing I'm training for both at the same time. BEcause I'm not going outside my alliances fleet doctrine.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2014-07-18 08:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Jeremy Fischer1 wrote:

Do lasers use gunnery supports? Also, the reason I'm hesitant about the Oracle is none of my alliance doctrine fits are Amarr or laser. So it's a waste of time for me, I don't want to cross train pve and pvp. Doing what I'm doing I'm training for both at the same time. BEcause I'm not going outside my alliances fleet doctrine.

The gunnery support skills you have been training will support any turreted weapon system ,so that's hybrids, LAZORZ and projectiles also.
You should look into LAZORZ(the correct spelling) the only thing keeping them from being hilariousy op is the lack of damage selection.

Cross training is a good thing and never a waste of time imo, when u trained into abc's I trained all 4 of them to see which one I enjoyed most and I found they each have there uses .
Netan MalDoran
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2014-07-19 19:11:34 UTC
You don't heavily tank Naga's, your range is your tank, this is my fit for PvE sniping, just replace the invuln fields with the appropriate damage types, In your case EM and Thermal?

[Naga, PvE Snipe]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Signal Amplifier II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
10MN Microwarpdrive I

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

210 DPS
1234 Alpha
264km Targeting Range
Optimal: 178km
Falloff: 215km

With this I can Alpha frigs at 180Km and I have the resists and shield booster to deal with turret/missile platforms or if I need to break out the antimatter and brawl at 50km against battleships since sniping them WILL NOT break their tanks.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Sara Sturnels
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-07-21 19:12:57 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
You don't heavily tank Naga's, your range is your tank, this is my fit for PvE sniping, just replace the invuln fields with the appropriate damage types, In your case EM and Thermal?

[Naga, PvE Snipe]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Signal Amplifier II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
10MN Microwarpdrive I

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Iron Charge L

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

210 DPS
1234 Alpha
264km Targeting Range
Optimal: 178km
Falloff: 215km

With this I can Alpha frigs at 180Km and I have the resists and shield booster to deal with turret/missile platforms or if I need to break out the antimatter and brawl at 50km against battleships since sniping them WILL NOT break their tanks.


How often do you find youself at 180 km from frigs in an active site? I imagine they try to close on your pretty quickly. How do you deal with the first spawn that emerges right next to you?
Netan MalDoran
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2014-07-21 19:18:17 UTC
Sara Sturnels wrote:


How often do you find youself at 180 km from frigs in an active site? I imagine they try to close on your pretty quickly. How do you deal with the first spawn that emerges right next to you?


You warp to the site at 100km and then start to burn away if they get too close, it takes them about over 2 minutes to get to you and you can just alpha each of them (Or split you rack of 8 into two 4's to make it more ammo efficient and you can be killing 2 frigs at once. When the site spawns again their going to be in the same spot...100km from you atleast (Ocassionally 70km).

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2014-07-21 19:34:18 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
Sara Sturnels wrote:


How often do you find youself at 180 km from frigs in an active site? I imagine they try to close on your pretty quickly. How do you deal with the first spawn that emerges right next to you?


You warp to the site at 100km and then start to burn away if they get too close, it takes them about over 2 minutes to get to you and you can just alpha each of them (Or split you rack of 8 into two 4's to make it more ammo efficient and you can be killing 2 frigs at once. When the site spawns again their going to be in the same spot...100km from you atleast (Ocassionally 70km).

What about gated missions.
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