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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Tired of Pointless Wars...

Author
Velicitia
XS Tech
#121 - 2015-01-07 14:17:39 UTC
Anatoly Arji wrote:
(stuff)



This guy gets EVE.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#122 - 2015-01-07 15:56:58 UTC
You should kill him back. Bring E-War. Lots and Lots of E-War.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#123 - 2015-01-08 03:19:59 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Just leave your corp, join an NPC corp and make a chat channel for your corp mates for the duration of the war. Rejoin when war is over.

Never pay a ransom - it will just flag you as someone who will pay and you'll be decced again in short order.



Not true at all. The last corp my group ransomed ended up working with us on future endeavors.
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2015-01-08 16:01:08 UTC
Anatoly Arji wrote:
[...] Eve is a PvP oriented game, corps must be strong to survive in that theater. As such, corps need to be able to defend themselves first and be industrialists second. Wardeccing in high sec is a part of the game, like "bumping." Both could easily be removed, but that would detract from the game's core value set. [...]


Correct, and furthermore "strong" means corp morale more than skill points or powerful ships. Too many hi sec corp members have unrealistic expectations; rank and file members expect to be immune from attack in hi sec, and corp leaders expect never to see losses on their kill board. When these expectations are not met, the members quit or are kicked out and the corp falls apart.

If you join a corp, even a hi sec industrial corp, you've climbed up a notch on the risk/reward ladder and should expect to face more challenge from other players. You'll have to devote more effort to fighting/avoiding/outsmarting your war opponents to succeed even in purely industrial and PvE activities, but you also have access to more advanced levels of the game than you could have in an NPC corp.

If you lead a hi sec, industry-oriented corp, realize that war is inevitable in hi sec, and stop blaming your members for whatever you think they might have done to incite or prolong wars. Focus on how your corp can prosper in spite of war decs, rather than endless contortions of game play in the hope that the dec'ers won't bother you as much. Stop thinking that a war dec is an anomaly that means your corp has done something wrong. Wars are business as usual in hi sec, and periods of peace are the anomaly.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2015-01-08 17:45:52 UTC
@ OP
I'm tired of pointless money-making, so make ships seeded instead of player-made, then I'll be tired of pointless PVP-ing, so remove it, then I'll be tired of this pointless universe that we can't do anything in, so just shut down the servers, etc.
You can't be a nihilist about one thing and randomly think other stuff has meaning. Its all pointless FUN.
Helmut Varner
Varner Holography
#126 - 2015-01-08 23:43:05 UTC
Ok, having read through this thread I can only say this:

EVE is broken...and it has been broken by the very people who control it.

Wars have a purpose. However, with all of the recent changes, CCP has made the entire wardec subject a mockery of gaming. Why do I say this? Because no more is it a matter of rationality...nor is it a matter of zone control. It's a matter of money. You can go online right now and find corps who have 20+ active wars and more pending. Why is this? Simply put, this is because CCP allows it in order to fill their coffers. We all know that these people are buying PLEX with real-world cash and selling them for ISK. This is a profit-line for CCP and shows what a lot of honest-to-goodness players have known for years - CCP has more concern for their bottom-line than they do about the gamers. People who don't want to play by the restrictions of where they can pew-pew...pay money so they can play wherever they want.

Now, I know the flamers are going to slam me for this and tell me things like "Go play here" or "Stop being a whiny-butt". However, the bottom line is that the wardec system - originally - was designed with purpose and not with the idea to make more money for the company. To those flamers, I say YOU are the ones who aren't real gamers...but posers.

CCP had - and still has - a great thing going. EVE is so far-reaching in it's scope that it's easy to become lost in the game. The broad expanse of what it covers - economy to combat to organization - allows for the most in-depth game in existence. This is exciting. EVE is so 'deep' that I personally know of people who have tried to play and decided that they can't because the scope is so large they can't wrap their head around it. This doesn't mean they are stupid...it's that it encompasses so much of real life attributes that it boggles the mind.

CCP, you need to be congratulated for creating and maintaining one of the best online experiences made. Yes, EVE is more of an experience than a game. However, by giving in to the almighty currency, you actually detract from the game itself. This is sad because I have seen many online games come and go...a lot of them gone because of greed. Please, don't let EVE disappear because of a line in the accounting books. The wardec system needs to be fixed. Let reality step in for a moment and show that corporations can't financially manage so many wardecs at once and incorporate that reality into the game which you have worked so hard to make as real as possible. Fix the system before it destroys the game.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#127 - 2015-01-10 01:17:58 UTC
Helmut Varner wrote:
Ok, having read through this thread I can only say this:

EVE is broken...and it has been broken by the very people who control it.

Wars have a purpose. However, with all of the recent changes, CCP has made the entire wardec subject a mockery of gaming. Why do I say this? Because no more is it a matter of rationality...nor is it a matter of zone control. ... .


Just because you do not understand the motivation of someone declaring war does not make them irrational. Sometimes people blow up miners because other miners stop them from mining. Sometimes they blow up POS's because they want a pos moon. Sometimes they want prestige and reputation while others it is a motivation of shutting down your production.

I bet that most people that declare war on you have done a bit of research before doing so. The moment you sign up to a corporation you accept the fact that your corporation is able to own unified property. You may forfeit this and join an NPC corporation - you will no longer gain any benefits that corporations give you. But you will be safe.
HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station
#128 - 2015-01-10 04:33:39 UTC
Here is a wonderful idea. Go to nullsec no wardecs to worry about unless your bad and take JFs through nullsec highsec connections. But if your looking to sell compressed ore hit me up.
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2015-01-10 14:21:59 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:

Just because you do not understand the motivation of someone declaring war does not make them irrational. Sometimes people blow up miners because other miners stop them from mining. Sometimes they blow up POS's because they want a pos moon. Sometimes they want prestige and reputation while others it is a motivation of shutting down your production.


Of course war decs are rational; they don't just happen by accident. Most times it's so that the aggressor can feel strong by preying on the weak. This has been a major theme of EVE from the beginning, long before PLEX.

Quote:

I bet that most people that declare war on you have done a bit of research before doing so. The moment you sign up to a corporation you accept the fact that your corporation is able to own unified property. You may forfeit this and join an NPC corporation - you will no longer gain any benefits that corporations give you. But you will be safe.


Yes, and the target corp would do well to just accept war as an inevitable reality, rather than quaking in fear docked up in stations. Your fear and "tears" are what war aggressors really want the most, and you can deny it to them regardless how poor you are in ISK, skill points, etc.
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#130 - 2015-01-12 20:19:18 UTC
My war targets pay me to go away, and I do. Maybe you should just put your wallet where your mouth is.


-Badman

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#131 - 2015-01-13 05:29:01 UTC
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
My war targets pay me to go away, and I do. Maybe you should just put your wallet where your mouth is.



The best part is when someone shows up to "negotiate" and you offer payment as your terms and they refuse outright to pay any quantity of money on principle.

It's like they were trying to hit the diplomacy option in a bioware game and weren't actually expecting to have to compromise in some way in order to reach a solution.

When someone is at war with you and you're trying to negotiate with the aggressor remember: War is the desired condition for them. They want to be at war with you, if you want to get out of the war you need to offer them an alternative that is better.
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#132 - 2015-01-13 14:06:13 UTC
I recently scouted down a corp with several assets in a system that looked vulnerable. We declared war and I asked the Corps CEO for 500 Million to go away. He refused (they do, about 80% of the time) and we extended the war for several weeks. He then put a total of 4 billion in bounty on my head and dissolved his Corp anyway.

Not only did he end up spending significantly more than my original request, in the end he lost his Corp anyway. If half of the high sec bears on this forum were more willing to negotiate they would be able to continue with business as usual.

-Badman

Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2015-01-13 16:06:13 UTC
I would say that you just have to deal with it. If someone wants to declare war for no reason, then why should they not be able to ? Why should you need a reason to declare war ? Is there a reason for even playing Eve Online ? If there is then it's the same reason why someone would want to declare war for apparently no reason.

And personally I don't mean any disrespect but I don't care about your servitude in real life combat, as admirable as that is, violence begets violence and just because you served under a flag doesn't mean that your violence was righteous.

This has probably been well articulated by other posters already but I didn't read through the thread I just wanted to add my thoughts to the discussion.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#134 - 2015-01-13 16:45:08 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Just leave your corp, join an NPC corp and make a chat channel for your corp mates for the duration of the war. Rejoin when war is over.

Never pay a ransom - it will just flag you as someone who will pay and you'll be decced again in short order.



Not true at all. The last corp my group ransomed ended up working with us on future endeavors.

Exception does not make the rule. True 90+ percent of the time.
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#135 - 2015-01-13 17:09:26 UTC
if you are not capable of defending yourself, and are not willing to pay a ransom, then consider hiring an effective merc corp. If I know for a fact that a Corp is going to hire another Merc corp, I'll definitely reconsider declaring war as the risk involved increases significantly.

-Badman

Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2015-01-14 02:32:49 UTC
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
if you are not capable of defending yourself, and are not willing to pay a ransom, then consider hiring an effective merc corp. If I know for a fact that a Corp is going to hire another Merc corp, I'll definitely reconsider declaring war as the risk involved increases significantly.


The corps most likely to get dec'ed (Newbie Fun Time Miners and the like) are also the least able to afford mercenaries.
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#137 - 2015-01-14 14:48:44 UTC
I think you'd be suprised how cheap some Mercenaries work. If you are just looking to make targets nervous many mercs will do it just for the 50 Mil war dec fee.

If 10 guys mining in high sec and running missions can't come up with 500 Million between them, for a ransom/hiring a more dangerous outfit, then they should reevaluate what they are doing.

-Badman

Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-01-14 16:08:09 UTC
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
[...]
If 10 guys mining in high sec and running missions can't come up with 500 Million between them, for a ransom/hiring a more dangerous outfit, then they should reevaluate what they are doing.


As a one time expense, 500 million is manageable. Wardecs are more like a monthly or even weekly occurrence though.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#139 - 2015-01-14 16:10:30 UTC
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
I think you'd be suprised how cheap some Mercenaries work. If you are just looking to make targets nervous many mercs will do it just for the 50 Mil war dec fee.

If 10 guys mining in high sec and running missions can't come up with 500 Million between them, for a ransom/hiring a more dangerous outfit, then they should reevaluate what they are doing.


Yeah, just drop to a NPC corp and create a channel so you can all still chat and work together.
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2015-01-14 16:18:40 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:


Yeah, just drop to a NPC corp and create a channel so you can all still chat and work together.


That works. So does playing during the aggressor's off hours (just look at the time zone on most of their kill mails), moving to low or null sec, clone jumping back and forth across the galaxy, joining an alliance, etc. There are plenty of tools available to war defenders.