Player Features and Ideas Discussion

@ Nevyn:

Seeing you backpedal that hard was hilarious.

"Grr exceptions to the ruleset!" "except the ones I like".

That made me laugh. Thanks for showing everyone that this is not about new players, it's about your personal opinion and nothing else.

Because its so hard to open a new account with zero history...

No, Concord is not an exception to the rule set. No matter how often you bleat that it is, it doesn't make it an exception. It is part of high security rules. Sorry you aren't understanding the fact different sectors of space can have different rules without being exceptions.

However, I've never been on this about new players, that was the Op, don't go putting words in my mouth. I've been on this because it's a perfect example of bad complexity to the game and the Op has produced an example of the kind of exploit caused by the bad complexity in question. You could individually close the exploit, but like I said, you are then trying to plug each leak after it happens and gets exploited enough to be noticed, meaning people get hurt by it.

The Simpler solution is to remove the exception. And use standard mechanics if you want to play war games.

Intended Gameplay does not mean it is not an exception to the rules of High sec however. Again, nowhere have I said it's not currently intended gameplay, though I highly doubt neutral Logi getting no flags is intended game play.
What I have said is that it is a bad form of complexity now that we have Crimewatch 2.0 & have enabled a lot of alternative methods, since the game play was initially enabled to allow live testing of fits. Awoxing is something players extended it to beyond the design intent, even if it is still valid.
So awoxing is not a good reason to keep bad complexity when it will still be possible to gank corp mates in a number of other ways than flag free combat. When it was designed we had a terrible 1.0 system of Crimewatch which was twisty turney and virtually un-understandable how flags propagated and which did and which didn't. Now we have a clear system, except in a few murky cases of which awoxing is one. And that Murk should be removed one way or another to keep the system clear.

Nope. The intent was that you be able to shoot your own corporation members.

It's not "bad complexity", it's not even "complexity". The safeties are more complex than this.

You can shoot your own corp members. The end.

Nothing complex about that. You are just scrambling for an excuse to make highsec more safe. Highsec needs to be less safe, not more safe. Making highsec more safe is inexcusable, especially since we have long since established that this is not actually about helping new players.

"Get rid of awoxing to make established carebears feel better in their tax haven corps".

If you are the person who makes the rules, it is impossible for any rule you make to be an exception. It is your rule. CCP chose to leave awoxing in the game with every significant patch since dueling, and the two were never related in the first place.

If memory serves me correctly, the only reason dueling was even relevant in any sort of awoxing discussion is because people were happy to have an alternative for testing between Alliance members without going to low, null, or a wormhole and having the possibility of looking like an awoxer because they got jumped and ended up on the killmail. No one mentioned anything about it being an alternative mechanic to being able to openly shoot corpmates, and CCP has, of course, never said anything supporting that.

There is nothing ambiguous about the fact that you can openly fire on corpmates. You can fire on corpmates without getting Concorded. It is a simple concept that even the most raw recruit can understand. If there were limitations to you being able to attack corpmates such as "you cannot pod your corpmates if they have implants" or "you can only attack corpmates on every other Tuesday" or "Killing a corpmate wearing clothing from the NES store will give you a Golden Jovian Ticket, which may allow you to become part of their inner circle of Special Friends someday." that would be ambiguous.

It is not complex, nor does it add complexity to anything else. It simplifies many aspects of Eve which are beneficial to their gameplay. It allows freighter pilots to utilize webbing partners, it means that if my corp members' internet connection drops in a fight I can continue to rep his ship after he drops from fleet, and it means that I don't have to spam fleet invites if for some reason **** hits the fan and I need support from nearby members. All I have to do is say "Help me." over voice chat and then focus on managing my ship.

And no, ignoring this post won't make the problems with your argument go away either.

a couple days to catalyst then let the havoc commence.

There's nothing stopping corps from recruiting new players beyond their own paranoia. Removing the ability to shoot greens will only further reduce the ability of newbie trainers of training their newbies in simple tactics like how best to approach a target to tackle it. If you have to start a duel every time you want to teach something, this will get tedious and annoying. What happens when the duel timer runs out and your still teaching?

So, no. The system works as it is. Last I checked, it wasn't difficult for a ceo/director to kick someone from a corp for being an awoxer.

You can shoot whomever you want in EVE Online, EXCEPT in highsec.

Remove CONCORD is the answer, clearly.

No, you handwaved it away to cover up the intense contradiction you are espousing.

Thereby exposing that you aren't actually upholding any principle, you are just pushing carebear advocacy. You're just scrambling for anything you can conjure to justify nerfing a playstyle you don't like.