Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yeah but with nearly a 3k to 4.5k DPS active tank and pushing near 1k DPS I don't like leaving them behind, only lost one so far but we pick the engagements pretty carefully.

For the OP, regardless of how useless the tertiary skills seem the CS ships are pretty much all worth it in the end. Not all of them, but most of them are.

Back to the topic, I wouldn't mind a reduction in training for the command ships, either. It would make more sense if you only had to train the most likely to be relevant skills, like armor-stuff if you want to fly an Amarr-command ship, for example.

Having just the command ships to look forward to, should I decide to invest training time in battlecruisers, is just another separate issue I have. And I just said that line about rats because I got annoyed with that other guy being willfuly obtuse.

Actually PL have a Vulture fleet that contains approximately 100+ vultures, ask CVA they have been on the receiving end sometimes. You know cause they undock and fight sometimes.

In other words, you just want a stripped down skill req so you can fly a CS as a super-hac and forget about the command role.

If you don't want to be a valuable part of your alliance and contributor to fleets with your Leadership skills, that's one thing; however, if you only want to shoot stuff, you should not ask for reducing the skill time or change the skill types to unreasonable skills, you should instead ask for a new T2 BC that is solely focused on combat.

Because it doesn't need to. The current requirements are shorter than the old train and land mid way between HAC's & Marauders, where it should be.
Which skill would you remove from the general command ships skill? Remember this is a non racial skill.
Which skill would you then replace it with because CCP aren't going to shorten the overall train. That is in keeping with the theme of 'command'.

And remember CCP are trying to go away from 5 different skills on the ship itself like the old CS had, instead having the racial skill to V for T2, then the relevant specialist skill. Since that keeps it smooth & easy to work out what is needed rather than labyrinthine skill trees like the old CS versions.

The problem is there is no special armour warfare requirement for Caldari Ships.
There is a requirement for the General all races Command Ships skill.

Which is needed for any of the races command ships.

Personally I'm not asking for a reduction in training time, just that the requirements be in line with other ships and not a slew of leadership skills that don't benefit the performance of the ship. Every other T2 ship in the game requires skills that directly affect the ships' attributes. The skills just don't apply to all of the roles the hull can fill, and that's a waste when you consider that a requirement like Energy Grid upgrades V is always going to have a positive benefit for a ship that requires it.



Again, don't care about the training time. Keep the same amount of SP but focused in different skills. (And as a side note, with a PvP training remap Marauders take less time for me to train than CBC's.)

You don't just have the theme command to work with. The rest of the name of the ship is "Battlecruiser". There is no reason that the ship cannot be used as a battlecruiser as well as a command ship, people do it every day to great effect. My entire perspective on the requirements for CBC's is that as a semi-new player, it makes no sense for me to train into one. If I start today by the time I finish I will have spent 1/3 of my entire time in Eve training for skills which improve a small gang or fleets capability to fight, but only encourage me to be somewhere other than the fight because that's 3-4 months that I wasn't training core skills in a ship that is getting called primary. Myself, and other fairly new players, have no interest is spending that chunk of time that we have currently invested in Eve just to sit in a safe while everyone else pews. It's easy to find no fault with the training requirements if you have 2, 3 or 4 years in all of the skills necessary for flying ships in general. After that, training for a CBC just feels like your filling out your already extensive repertoire, not wasting a significant amount your time on something that you still won't be able to enjoy or fly.

I train for HACs I get skills that make my HAC better. I train for Marauders I'm training skills that make my Marauder better. If as a semi-low or low SP player I train CBC's I get told to fit ECCM's and WCS's and sit in the middle of empty space, because I'm too valuable for the fleet to lose mid-fight, and my core skills necessary to keep me alive are anemic after devoting so much training time elsewhere.

It'd be great if, after devoting all of that time to "command" skills you would actually get to "command" something, but you don't, you instead get to listen patiently to events completely out of your control while you continuously click D-scan.

Excited to train CBC's as a new or semi-new player yet? Well if you really want to fill that "Command" role better train another ship so that you can actually be on grid.

Who's telling noobs to train for BS's for anything but grinding security missions?

T2 BC's are different in that they are much easier to get to a point where a player can fly them efficiently than a BS, max them out faster than a BS, and it encourages new players to try their hand at being an FC not just in name but in practice as well.

Train a BS for PvP early on and you've trained into a BS for Pvp. Woohoo. All of that SP you put into a line of BS's would have given you more options that as a new player you can effectively use in a line of cruisers. Train into a CBC early and you not only have more options than you would a T1 BS, but you also have the gunnery skills for cruisers and are capable of expanding the ship and fitting options for your entire fleet.

Now THAT is a goal a new player can get behind.... Until they look at the 3-4 months of training they're going to spend with no improvement in their current abilities to fit and fly ships.... Unless you've already got a line of ships skilled out to be quite competent in PvP(in which case I don't think the term new or semi-new applies to you) this is essentially saying that you don't want to do anything but play your skill queue for the next 90 days, because your options are not only limited but will remain limited, and nobody is going to want you FCing if you consistently get knocked off the field early in the fights.

K, I am gonna out myself a bit to make a point.

I am just a 18 month player and my main lasted 2 month until I decided, he needs some company and two more months for another child etc.
My main does random stuff can, do all kinds of things semi well, but was quite efficient with BC and BS after the 3rd month and never got problems since then.
My second was committed after a few months to Command ships, he is been training 9 months now and is close to CS5, BC skills are still missing, BUT I played that one every day, probably more then my main and training has never bothered me. I also used the Leadership skills and T1 modules effectively from day one.
Number 3 was committed from the first day to logi and is now 12 months in, with all related skills on 5 except logi 5 which is in the cue. Hmm, that's equally long as CS in total °°
Number 4 was committed right from the cradle for pvp and can fly all SB, CovOps, HAC .... everythign t2 cruiser size with 2 almost perfect weapons systems. Also 12 months.

So, tell em again, how training time, skill effectiveness and relations while training and new player training/experience and commitment are off ? Cause I don't get it and don't see it that way.
Not a single day did I have the feeling, that I was punished, forced or whatever rubbish people suggest new players feel or should feel in hindsight. And I consider myself a beginner at the time I made those decisions. And prior to this char I had no clue what EVE was about. And I collected and gathered all the info myself, I had no teacher, training corp or other outside help.

But hey, if you are a ****** FC or just a bad contact for new players and boast with your 80 mil skills and 6 bil ships and then tell the rookies, well, train some years, of course are they gonna hate, but not the skills, ... you, because you killed hope and the reality, that every day can be fun with the illusion, 'no you can't until you have trained ABC to level X'.

This cutting of command ship skills is a redundant discussion, it is well balanced compared with other classes and in itself, it makes sense and if you are interested in fleet support, the skills fit and are of use too.
All this, 'but I have to',' feel forced', 'brutal for beginners' (now if there is not a contraction, mentioning beginners and command ships in one sentence, almost as bad as the blocking rookies from using super shiatpost) is absolute nonsense and whining in the highest degree.
And every time the 'new player' image is held hostage for personal rosette pain, because you couldn't get your training sorted from week 1 and your crap is all over the place. Well, speak for yourself.

Doesn't mean things couldn't be more consistent, doesn't mean we might not wish for a Heavy Assault BC (T2), but stop whining about the skills and the system because you are butthurt and defending a lost argument with nonsense just to be right.

And the votes you collect are from people who always will say yes to anything that comes cheaper or easier. Does that make it right - No.