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I'm doing 1-1.7k Raven Volleys? D:

Author
Ling Sora
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#1 - 2011-11-20 05:48:05 UTC
I'm kinda not new, but I am pretty new to combat.

When I'm doing L4 Missions, I feel that my DPS is terrible. I'm doing about 1-1.7k Volleys on Battlecruisers and Battleships 500-1.6k on Cruisers. Frigates of course, will be much less since I'm using Cruise missiles. I'm pretty sure I am using the right damage type. I'm thinking my skills might be kinda low...

Cruise Missiles - Level 4
Missile Bombardment - Level 4
Missile Launcher Operation - Level 4
Missile Projection - Level 4
Rapid Launch -Level 3
Target Navigation Prediction -Level 3
Warhead Upgrades -Level 2
Caldari Battleship -Level 2



Anyways, this is my Fit:

HIGH:

x6 Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
x2 Drone link Augmenter I


MED:

x1 Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I (Shield Booster: Meta 4)
x1 Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron (Target Painter: Meta 4)
x1 Ballistic Deflection Field II
x1 Heat Dissipation Field II
x1 Invulnerability Field II
x1 Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I (Cap Booster: Meta 4)


LOW:

x3 Ballistic Control System II
x1 Damage Control I
x1 Co-Processeor II


RIGS:

x3 Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2011-11-20 06:02:19 UTC
Try getting everything to at least 4

The Drake is a Lie

Ling Sora
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#3 - 2011-11-20 06:20:21 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Try getting everything to at least 4



Well the only things that deal with damage out of those skills, are two, would a 4-6% damage increase really help that much? I keep hearing faction ammo is a must, is this true?
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#4 - 2011-11-20 07:20:00 UTC
Stats and skill stack and multiply on each other. If you have Cruise Missiles 5 you can train the specialisation skill which will also increase the your DPS and if you really want to use missiles then it is worth training the skills to 5.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Ling Sora
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#5 - 2011-11-20 07:58:00 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Stats and skill stack and multiply on each other. If you have Cruise Missiles 5 you can train the specialisation skill which will also increase the your DPS and if you really want to use missiles then it is worth training the skills to 5.


Ok so should I use faction ammo to help that aswell?
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-20 09:20:03 UTC
Ling Sora wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Stats and skill stack and multiply on each other. If you have Cruise Missiles 5 you can train the specialisation skill which will also increase the your DPS and if you really want to use missiles then it is worth training the skills to 5.


Ok so should I use faction ammo to help that aswell?


It will help, but eat some of your profits. I guess there is a point where running missions faster will earn so much more money, that the faction ammo easily pays for itself. On the other hand, if it takes the same amount of volleys to kill the enemy, you're just paying more for no practical increase in efficiency. You can either calculate it or just try it out and see if it makes a big enough of a difference to you. With luck someone who has done that before you will chime in and just tell you.

Your bigger issue right now is your low skills. Battleship@ lvl 2 for example is pretty bad and you really shouldn't expect stellar peformance until you can at least get the basic damage affecting skills to lvl 4. Also notice that small percentage increase in the damage you do can greatly increase the speed you destroy your targets. They usually have some level of hitpoint regeneration, so it eats up a portion of the damage you do. That means the seemingly small increases in your overall damage output can become significant increases in the damage output that is over that regeneration threshold.
Ariane VoxDei
#7 - 2011-11-20 11:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ariane VoxDei
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
Stats and skill stack and multiply on each other. If you have Cruise Missiles 5 you can train the specialisation skill which will also increase the your DPS and if you really want to use missiles then it is worth training the skills to 5.

In before Liang....

cm spec wont do ANYTHING for his volley damage. It only effects T2 laucher ROF (dps) but not volley damage. Secondly, T2 fury is just about inferor to flying with caldari navy launchers instead, du to their greatly superior ROF.

That said, 1.5k volley on BS, while terrible, is not nearly as bad as it sounds if you take things into account.
A CNR (7 launchers) with near IV skills and plain T1 ammo and 4 BCU-II will roughly hit for 3500 on structure.
With 6 launchers, like your raven, you would be looking at a 3000 volley give or take a bit.

Then take into account resists. 40+ in the weakest resist is not unordinary. So rule of thumb: 60% of 3k: 1800.

Add to that:
Not even 4 in the damage skills (CM and warhead upgrades)
No 4th BCU
No damage RIG.

Then your volley damage is not that far off from where it could be.

Edit: and thats not even compensating for average loss to defender missiles.
Flakey Foont
#8 - 2011-11-20 15:59:06 UTC
Sorry but co-processor means you jumped into a BS too early.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-11-20 16:46:51 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
Sorry but co-processor means you jumped into a BS too early.


no

it means he jumped in a bs early so cant expect much
Scarlet Loveless
White Mango
#10 - 2011-11-21 04:14:12 UTC
FOrget which skill it is but I think its the one you have at 3 that incresses blast volicity so lv that up. Also get a flar catalist which incresses the same. This helps ALOT on smaller ships. T2 Missles help alot the key is to carry both types Persition AND fury and use fury on BS Persition on smaller crapt. I get abour 800-1.6k per volly of 3 launchers on avrage sometimes 2k so that is 1.6k-3.2k up to 4k per volly. So long as you kill one type first and try to make the reloads when you are low on ammo anyways the 10 sec won't be noticed.

T2 Launchers help alot as well. They have the faster ROF for launcher without getting into NAVY issue and up which unless you are ISK rich you problay don't have access to. ROF will not only help you do missions faster but might save on ammo on the harder targets that have better shield and armor repair. There are some out there that having to reload ammo can almost replace there shields in that 10 sec if you don't have drone on him to help minigate (not stop) the regen. Most won't be to noticable and will be just faster kills which is more ISK/Hour but it is the T2 Missles that will do it for you.

Keep in mind missles use more than DAMG to actully do dmg and have a very wierd system behind them that in no way reflect real life.

Think of the missle blast like an orb that expands outwards (blast radius and volicity). This orb does 100% dmg BUT the ship only takes dmg based on the % of the orb which it touches. So skills and mods that drap the bast radius make more of that orb touch the target while fast blast volicity makes the orb hit more of the faster targets as it expands faster onto them. Target painters make targets bigger and thus will be effected but the orb more. Of course in the real world the bigger the boom the deader the foe in EvE big booms do alot less dmg to smaller targets. Also a TP will even help on BS's special using Fury.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2011-11-21 08:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
This is what I used. When you get some ISK, replace the shield booster with a faction one, so you can drop the Co-Processor and replace it with another BCU.

Change the hardeners as appropriate for the NPC in the missions. Faction hardeners, other than invuls, are cheap and easier to fit (and use less capacitor).

This has a volley of 2948 before resists with my skills (level 4). Use appropriate damage type for the NPC in the missions. You should be able to 2-volley battlecruisers and one-volley destroyers and non-elite frigate (though light drones chew them up fast too).

Keep moving, as it reduces incoming damage. I like to orbit something at 105 km, like the next gate or the beacon, at which range I can turn-off the hardeners. The only time I really take damage is as I am moving to range dragging the initial group with me, shooting it as I go (webbers are a priority). Mission NPC have a max range around 90 km, so I prioritize by range. When the room is half-clear I start to move towards the next gate, so I arrive just as the last NPC pops.

I carry 15 cap charges (= 3 reloads + 5 in the module) with the rest of my cargo filled with missiles. This is enough for about 4-6 missions, depending on the missions. I tend to run out of missiles or need to change damage type before running out of cap charges. I build cap charges on-site (requires Industry 1) from reprocessed mission junk, as the charges are annoying large to haul, and the BPO is cheap and much smaller.


[Raven, Basic]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation

100MN Afterburner II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
X-Large Shield Booster II

[empty high slot]
Small Tractor Beam I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-21 12:32:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
My mission running Caldari character runs a Raven fit very similar to Tau Cabalander Raven show above, the exception is one less Hardener and no Propulsion mod. Instead I have a Target Painter and a Shield Boost Amp. Plus I have a single drone link Augmentator in the empty high.

I wouldn't fit two Drone Link Augmentators. One is more than adequate, the priority for drones is web and scrambling frigates under 30Kms from you. With my drone skills I can get them out to 77Km and the minimum is 45Km with just one DL Augmentator.

Caldari BS II does at first glance seem poor, but if you mission on a Raven you very quickly realise that the ship bonus' for Cruise Missiles are next to useless, so don't raise that as a priority.

The CPU on a Raven is tight, so seeing a Co-Processor there is not an indication of poor skills.

A Damage Control on a Shield Tanked PVE ship is a waste of a slot, while conversely you need to improve your targetting range. You can hit out to over 150Km with Cruise Missile and minimal skills, but only target to 75-90Km, so you need to replace the DC with a Signal Amplifier.

My advice to the OP is get yourself a Raven Navy Issue (CNR). They cost under 400M at the moment (used to be 550M 2 years ago) and are worth the investment. It is not only an extra launcher, but 50% extra Shield, Armor and Structure HP, improved PG, CPU, Cap and 25m extra drone bay.

Once in a CNR the next thing to save for is a Gist X Type X-Large Shield Booster. With it's activation cost of 204GJ (Compared to 400GJ on the T2), it is almost possible to perma run it. Missions just become a breeze, you still have to be careful on a few missions such as the AE bonus room, but you should never have to warp out.

Your DPS will come up a bit in time, but at the moment I would guess, you are struggling to kill them fast enough to avoid having to warp out? What you have posted, which I assume is the actual volley damage you are seeing on your combat log rather than the theoretic damage seems fair to me. It is your tank you need to improve. You haven't posted your support skills, particular shield and cap, they may need some work?
Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
#13 - 2011-11-22 09:01:34 UTC
Maximum volley damage you can get with your setup is around 3100 damage.

But there are several factors you need to consider:
- resists on the target ship (make sure you're using the right ammo type, and even then the rats will have about 30% resists)
- target speed and sig radius (the smaller and faster the less damage you'll do)

Another factors are not just volley damage but damage per second which is impacted by some different skills than the volley damage.


David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-11-22 12:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Ling Sora wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Try getting everything to at least 4



Well the only things that deal with damage out of those skills, are two, would a 4-6% damage increase really help that much? I keep hearing faction ammo is a must, is this true?


yes but target navigation prediction is only at 2 and thats way too low... that skill alone improves your missile's tracking.

getting all the missiles skills up to at least 4 will help alot... but getting to 5 will help even more

train up the war head upgrade skill too... that adds 2% more dps per level too

train up your battleship skill to increase the rate of fire and missile velocity (this will help hit smaller targets better)

as for the drone link augmenters you probably dont need them.... fit two dual 150 mm rails for insta-popping frigs (after the expansion)

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-11-22 14:54:18 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
train up your battleship skill to increase the rate of fire and missile velocity (this will help hit smaller targets better)

You are talking about Explosion Velocity. Missile Velocity increases range and is useless for Cruise Missiles on a Raven. Raven base targetting range is 75Km, with Long Range Targetting V and a Signal Amplifier that can be pushed out to 121Km. Cruise Missiles base range is 75Km and the OP's skills push that out to 176.4Km already. So training Caldari BS effectively only gives him a 5% RoF increase per level, perhaps worth getting L3, debatable going for L4, but not IMO worth the time at this stage for the OP.
Ling Sora
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#16 - 2011-11-22 21:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ling Sora
Well I got a CNR now so here's my new fit:


HIGH:

x7 Arbalest Cruise Launcher I
x1 Drone link Augmenter I


MED:

x1 Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I (Shield Booster: Meta 4)
x1 Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron (Target Painter: Meta 4)
x1 Ballistic Deflection Field II
x1 Shield Booster Amplifier I
x1 Invulnerability Field II
x1 Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I (Cap Booster: Meta 4)


LOW:

x4 Ballistic Control System II
EMPTY SLOT (Need 2-4 CPU then I can get sensor booster here, so need CPU implant)


RIGS:

x2 Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I



I think this is a little better, other than the one empty low slot. Are the new rigs ok?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2011-11-22 23:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Ling Sora wrote:
Well I got a CNR now so here's my new fit:


LOW:

x4 Ballistic Control System II
EMPTY SLOT (Need 2-4 CPU then I can get sensor booster here, so need CPU implant)


RIGS:

x2 Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I


I think this is a little better, other than the one empty low slot. Are the new rigs ok?

Change the rigs. They have a similar affect as BCU and you already have 4 of those, so the rigs are getting stacking penalized into nothing.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-11-23 01:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Ling Sora wrote:
Well I got a CNR now so here's my new fit:


LOW:

x4 Ballistic Control System II
EMPTY SLOT (Need 2-4 CPU then I can get sensor booster here, so need CPU implant)


RIGS:

x2 Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I


I think this is a little better, other than the one empty low slot. Are the new rigs ok?

Change the rigs. They have a similar affect as BCU and you already have 4 of those, so the rigs are getting stacking penalized into nothing.


your fit is not cap stable....drop those rigs and fit 3x capacitor control circuit rigs + add a Damage Control II to that low slot

using cap charges on an active tanked ship for missions is suicide

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-11-23 01:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Major Trant wrote:
David Grogan wrote:
train up your battleship skill to increase the rate of fire and missile velocity (this will help hit smaller targets better)

You are talking about Explosion Velocity. Missile Velocity increases range and is useless for Cruise Missiles on a Raven. Raven base targetting range is 75Km, with Long Range Targetting V and a Signal Amplifier that can be pushed out to 121Km. Cruise Missiles base range is 75Km and the OP's skills push that out to 176.4Km already. So training Caldari BS effectively only gives him a 5% RoF increase per level, perhaps worth getting L3, debatable going for L4, but not IMO worth the time at this stage for the OP.


a faster moving cruise missile will still hit smaller ships better than a slower moving cruise missile because the missile to target transversals will be less.

it only takes a week to get caldari bs skill to 4

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Ling Sora
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#20 - 2011-11-23 04:56:44 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Ling Sora wrote:
Well I got a CNR now so here's my new fit:


LOW:

x4 Ballistic Control System II
EMPTY SLOT (Need 2-4 CPU then I can get sensor booster here, so need CPU implant)


RIGS:

x2 Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I


I think this is a little better, other than the one empty low slot. Are the new rigs ok?

Change the rigs. They have a similar affect as BCU and you already have 4 of those, so the rigs are getting stacking penalized into nothing.


your fit is not cap stable....drop those rigs and fit 3x capacitor control circuit rigs + add a Damage Control II to that low slot

using cap charges on an active tanked ship for missions is suicide



I don't think it matters for a Raven to be cap stable. I haven't heard one thing or seen one thing on the forums on in game talking about Raven tank needing or ever being cap stable. But of course, I'm new to combat so I don't know really what is best.
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