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Crime & Punishment

 
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CODE Minerbumping query

Author
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#101 - 2014-07-23 21:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
I am putting my tinfoil hat on now, so I know this sounds less than sane...but I have a theory.

I think the guys behind the Code are trying to limit ore production in certain markets so the prices rise. If they have another end to the business funneling that harder-to-find ore into the market, they could make a lot of money through ganking (ie, reducing the supply of ore).

I only say this because I work in financial services IRL and have seen this tried more than a few times in the real world.

Tinfoil hat off.

There are people that make significant profits off of our activities. I don't believe they qualify as the "guys behind CODE" though.
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Just understand CODE's "concern" over AFK gameplay is just politicking for their own playstyle. You will never see them actually advocate for specific improvements to the game that would eliminate or reduce afk mining. That would destroy them. It's the same thing with all the "bot aspirant" behavior; you can't "aspire" to bot; you wither use botting software or don't. It's just a way of implying that their targets are borderline rule-breakers to gain advantage in the forum wars.

If you see actual bots, report them to CCP yourself, directly. CODE has no need, no responsibility, and no authority to get involved in the process, and don't actually care. All they're doing is trying to protect their playstyle from imagined potential nerfs, because they, like most highsec criminals, love correlation/causation fallacy and *** hoc ergo propter hoc errors, and imagine that "carebear whining" is what causes nerfs. It has never once occurred to these people that CCP might actually care about the long-term health of the game, despite the fact that it pays CCP's bills.

Actually I would like to see gameplay improvements to discourage AFK mining, as long as those improvements don't make miners safer (other than forcing them to be at their computers).
Hyo Tae-hyun wrote:
Edmond Lewis wrote:
Handar Turiant wrote:
Little code interpretation question:

Should one be mining without a permit, does one get the opportunity to purchase it before being suicide ganked, or do the Code Folk gank everything not on their little list without the agent in question offering to purchase redemption through permit?



They'll gank you with the permit and just claim your somehow weren't in compliance with somthing


That's because nobody is paying attention to them and they are running out of ways to pretend they are relevant. It's cute to watch them beg for attention though...I am certain the 12 people who actually pay for mining permits think they are just oh so scary.

There's only 12? Wow! I've sold over 50% of all new order permits!

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#102 - 2014-07-23 22:01:36 UTC
Double post.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2014-07-23 22:11:02 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Actually I would like to see gameplay improvements to discourage AFK mining, as long as those improvements don't make miners safer (other than forcing them to be at their computers).


As long as it doesn't kill multiboxing fleets, I love killing those.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#104 - 2014-07-23 22:31:46 UTC
Gostina Mishina wrote:
CODE's roots are in the ISK-doubling scams. "Mining permits" are just another scam, this one designed to be not so labor-intensive for the scammers.


Right!

We all know "scamming" @ 10 million ISK at a time is amazingly profitable.

Next time please refrain from commenting on things you have no idea about.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#105 - 2014-07-23 22:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: DJentropy Ovaert
Handar Turiant wrote:

I've recently been in contact with the CODE diplomats, asking where I can report actual bot miners (you across them in belts quite often) in groups of alts with the same name, but nothing ever comes back other than the CODE faq channel, which is a vacuum. It's suggested 'people are listening' there. If the RP and Content side of CODE where the least bit sincere, one would be wise to take such things seriously: that way one would actually feel useful scouting out botters for you guys and genuinely make eve better.


The reason is simple - you are not providing intel of any value. I get reports of this nature about a dozen times a day, and they all follow the same format: "Soandso is in *system-name* afk mining! I think he is a bot!" - which carries about as much value as "I was in space and I saw some spaceships!". There is always someone multiboxing while AFK, botting, afk mining, trash talking the CODE, etc. You can't go more then 3 jumps without finding them.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell anyone who sends reports of this nature - BE THE CHANGE you want to see in the universe. Strap on some guns, go enforce the CODE. If you can't do it alone, join the minerbumping channel and see if others will help you. If you are unwilling to get excited enough to do anything about it, how can you expect anyone else to?
Handar Turiant
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2014-07-24 13:25:03 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Handar Turiant wrote:

I've recently been in contact with the CODE diplomats, asking where I can report actual bot miners (you across them in belts quite often) in groups of alts with the same name, but nothing ever comes back other than the CODE faq channel, which is a vacuum. It's suggested 'people are listening' there. If the RP and Content side of CODE where the least bit sincere, one would be wise to take such things seriously: that way one would actually feel useful scouting out botters for you guys and genuinely make eve better.


The reason is simple - you are not providing intel of any value. I get reports of this nature about a dozen times a day, and they all follow the same format: "Soandso is in *system-name* afk mining! I think he is a bot!" - which carries about as much value as "I was in space and I saw some spaceships!". There is always someone multiboxing while AFK, botting, afk mining, trash talking the CODE, etc. You can't go more then 3 jumps without finding them.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell anyone who sends reports of this nature - BE THE CHANGE you want to see in the universe. Strap on some guns, go enforce the CODE. If you can't do it alone, join the minerbumping channel and see if others will help you. If you are unwilling to get excited enough to do anything about it, how can you expect anyone else to?


Yeah, that's not gonna happen. The whole quasi religious holier than though thing, even though tongue in cheek and a good laugh to read, is a little too much for me. The shark was jumped with the atrocious soundcloud postings. I'll stick to poking nullbears.
Revis Owen
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#107 - 2014-07-24 14:32:38 UTC
Handar Turiant wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
BE THE CHANGE you want to see in the universe.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. The whole quasi religious holier than though thing, even though tongue in cheek and a good laugh to read, is a little too much for me. The shark was jumped with the atrocious soundcloud postings. I'll stick to poking nullbears.


You don't have to do the "quasi religious" meta-stuff. It's not required. You can just get down to business and bump or gank the ones you're complaining about.

If you're not willing to even *consider* being *some* part of the solution, your sincerity about your "problem" is seriously in doubt.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2014-07-24 14:33:01 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Actually I would like to see gameplay improvements to discourage AFK mining, as long as those improvements don't make miners safer (other than forcing them to be at their computers).


As long as it doesn't kill multiboxing fleets, I love killing those.


I look forward to the implementation of the mini-game for mining. Some variation on the hacking tool would work.

Guess that would kinda make watching DSCAN hard though, eh?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Revis Owen
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#109 - 2014-07-24 19:56:52 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
I look forward to the implementation of the mini-game for mining. Some variation on the hacking tool would work.

Guess that would kinda make watching DSCAN hard though, eh?


The "mini-game" for a miner could properly be "keep myself aligned to a warpable point and keep checking dscan for threats".

The miner should go suspect if either he is out of alignment or hasn't clicked dscan after a reasonable amount of time. I'd be generous and suggest 60 seconds. I know that still allows some time for abuse by filthy bot-aspirant miners, who would go AFK for stretches of seconds at a time just out of their warped, dissonant mentality of wanting to avoid playing a game they pay to play. But I'm willing to compromise.

That would keep dscan involved in their game and logically connect the mini-game to something the miner SHOULD be doing (being careful and wary in space--it's dangerous!).

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.

Lugia3
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#110 - 2014-07-25 06:56:24 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
The simple answer is, someone who is not bot-aspirant and participating in the community would soon find out about The New Order, and promptly purchase a permit. So, not knowing about The New Order is prima facie evidence of bot-aspirant behaviour, of which the punishment is ganking.

Also, to address the popular misconception that a permit prevents ganking. This is false. Getting ganked automatically invalidates a permit. People who have permits never get ganked, so, if a supposed permit holder DOES get ganked, obviously they were violating the Code. Invalid permit means ganking ensues.

Roll

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Handar Turiant
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2014-07-25 08:58:42 UTC
Revis Owen wrote:
Handar Turiant wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
BE THE CHANGE you want to see in the universe.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. The whole quasi religious holier than though thing, even though tongue in cheek and a good laugh to read, is a little too much for me. The shark was jumped with the atrocious soundcloud postings. I'll stick to poking nullbears.


You don't have to do the "quasi religious" meta-stuff. It's not required. You can just get down to business and bump or gank the ones you're complaining about.

If you're not willing to even *consider* being *some* part of the solution, your sincerity about your "problem" is seriously in doubt.


Just because I support the troops doesn't mean I have to pick up a gun..... this is what I would term a fundamentalist position, much like your statement on forced suspect for miners. You're not interested in teaching people anything, just looking to make ganking ships for your bandits easier. How bot aspirant of you.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#112 - 2014-07-25 13:34:03 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:


Yes, but complying with the Code will never get you ganked in the first place even if you don't have a permit. You will check local and D-Scan, play like you would in low or nullsec and/or tank your ship, etc. So the permit does nothing.


And there's the rub - if you do this you are obeying the Code (well most of it anyway) and we win.

The New Order always wins.


When your entire play style is ganking newbies, how is that something to brag about?


Yes, all Code ganks is newbies, we especially enjoy ganking newbie Jump Freighter pilots. I myself really enjoy killing newbie Skiff pilots. I really love it when they are all like "I've only been playing the game for 2 weeks, how is this a good way to welcome people to Eve?"

Everyone should be welcomed to Eve with antimatter, that's how I was welcomed. And it only made me want to play the game more.


So you honestly disagree with the fact that ganking AFKers and newbies is by far the easiest playstyle out there? It is about as carebear as it gets
Handar Turiant
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2014-07-25 13:39:49 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:


Yes, but complying with the Code will never get you ganked in the first place even if you don't have a permit. You will check local and D-Scan, play like you would in low or nullsec and/or tank your ship, etc. So the permit does nothing.


And there's the rub - if you do this you are obeying the Code (well most of it anyway) and we win.

The New Order always wins.


When your entire play style is ganking newbies, how is that something to brag about?


Yes, all Code ganks is newbies, we especially enjoy ganking newbie Jump Freighter pilots. I myself really enjoy killing newbie Skiff pilots. I really love it when they are all like "I've only been playing the game for 2 weeks, how is this a good way to welcome people to Eve?"

Everyone should be welcomed to Eve with antimatter, that's how I was welcomed. And it only made me want to play the game more.


So you honestly disagree with the fact that ganking AFKers and newbies is by far the easiest playstyle out there? It is about as carebear as it gets


Omg...... it's....... CARECEPTION! (or Bearception?)
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#114 - 2014-07-26 17:13:50 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:


Yes, but complying with the Code will never get you ganked in the first place even if you don't have a permit. You will check local and D-Scan, play like you would in low or nullsec and/or tank your ship, etc. So the permit does nothing.


And there's the rub - if you do this you are obeying the Code (well most of it anyway) and we win.

The New Order always wins.


When your entire play style is ganking newbies, how is that something to brag about?


Yes, all Code ganks is newbies, we especially enjoy ganking newbie Jump Freighter pilots. I myself really enjoy killing newbie Skiff pilots. I really love it when they are all like "I've only been playing the game for 2 weeks, how is this a good way to welcome people to Eve?"

Everyone should be welcomed to Eve with antimatter, that's how I was welcomed. And it only made me want to play the game more.


So you honestly disagree with the fact that ganking AFKers and newbies is by far the easiest playstyle out there? It is about as carebear as it gets


Ganking AFK retrievers, Mack's or hulks/covetors is pretty easy, no argument there. Skiffs and Orcas aren't quite so easy and take a lot more organization and planning. Freighters even more so. Especially when they are actually not AFK.
As for it being carebearring, carebears by definition avoid conflict with other players. Seeing as ganking is nothing but conflict with other players that statement falls rather flat. It also amuses me when people assume that ganking is the only thing gankers do. Silly people.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Jolly Rancer
Syndicate Enterprise
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#115 - 2014-07-27 07:30:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jolly Rancer
TheDevek wrote:
Why doesn't someone just find a list of people that purchased permits and start ganking them?

It would put an end to all this code and permit nonsense lol.



tl;dr

If they're following the CODE, you CANNOT gank them genious.


This reminds me of a Permit Holder who I ganked because he wasn't CODE compliant. He asked to speak to my Dispatch Supervisor, then escalated it to our On Duty Captain.

The miscreant non compliant miner demanded to be reimbursed. I was ready to pay the cost from my own wallet. After a few questions, the miner realized he was wrong and offered an apology for wasting my Superior's time.

He even sent me 100 million isk as a token of his appreciation for me doing my job correctly. Recidivism is very low among offenders.
Ria Nieyli
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#116 - 2014-07-27 07:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Tengu Grib wrote:
Ganking AFK retrievers, Mack's or hulks/covetors is pretty easy, no argument there. Skiffs and Orcas aren't quite so easy and take a lot more organization and planning. Freighters even more so. Especially when they are actually not AFK.
As for it being carebearring, carebears by definition avoid conflict with other players. Seeing as ganking is nothing but conflict with other players that statement falls rather flat. It also amuses me when people assume that ganking is the only thing gankers do. Silly people.


So, how do you classify avoiding a gank then?
Arcelian
Abditum Testa Societas
#117 - 2014-07-27 10:48:11 UTC
I've done my fair share of ganking, only difference is I don't tout it about trying to look like some sort of bad ass for doing something that requires very little effort.

When code starts ganking afk mission running domi's and marauders, I'll be impressed. Til then you are just going after the softest targets possible, while thinking of yourselves as some serious internet tough guys.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2014-07-27 14:16:55 UTC
Question to Mr. Jolly, or anyone else who can answer it. I asked Mr. Jolly the question in a separate thread but I think he bailed on it. Mr. Jolly, I would say it's always a pleasure to have someone in LAGL and you are of course welcome back anytime.

My question was.. do CODE pilots get reimbursed for sec status tags or do you have to finance your climb back to 0.0? This is assuming a pilot does not want to stay -10.0.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#119 - 2014-07-27 16:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Starfox
Sibyyl wrote:


My question was.. do CODE pilots get reimbursed for sec status tags or do you have to finance your climb back to 0.0? This is assuming a pilot does not want to stay -10.0.


To answer you question: No, it is not covered. If for some reason the -10 player would like to raise their sec status, it is entirely up to them with how they want to go about it.

Tbh, I have never heard anyone ask for sec tags because they didn't want to be -10 anymore.

HTH

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet

Jango Cane
Doomheim
#120 - 2014-07-27 19:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jango Cane
If you are like me and pay attention while mining. -Two accounts one on lap top one on desk top, micro managing your cargo with a orca buddy CODE is not a problem. I'm not afk I wont get ganked I pay attention to local and my surroundings.


I got a permit for the following reasons.

1. I like to role play in eve and it adds something to mining.
2. Buying a permit, is not protection for myself.. being at my key board is protection enough. It is a sponsorship- real miners are sponsoring CODE to gank afk miners who keep the ore price down. It's sponsorship to kill your net flix watching competitors.
3. I know people who manufacture hulks. And personally manufacture catalysts... Again its a sponsorship to drive the price up.

I like what code is doing. Keep up the good work.