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Please put option back in....

First post First post
#241 - 2011-12-01 08:49:12 UTC
Oh, so that's how stuff works at CCP, eh?

You can't find the solution to an annoying interface issue that's pissing everyone off, so you just remove an entire feature to get rid of it altogether.

Just like you did with that cool "hover over target=camera looks at that target" feature.

Where the hell does CCP recruit from?

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.

Belidos Goveko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#242 - 2011-12-01 09:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Belidos Goveko
CCP Optimal wrote:
and given the fact that very few people even knew of it's existence.

Bullshit, almost everybody knew about it, people didn't use it because it was bugged, it was part of what was causing the window jumping issue, that is why peopel didn't use it, i can garuntee that if you fixed that bug instead of removing the feature then almost everybody would use it, it's and EXTREMELY IMPORTANT feature to many.

Please fix it and put it back.

bug fix > feature removal
Belidos Goveko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#243 - 2011-12-01 09:43:30 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:

Features like pinning, collapsing and stacking is something that you won't find in many modern GUI systems

Please do some research before posting, almost every mmo to this day that has been released without a way to lock toolbars and UI elements has been plagued off the bat by complaints requesting the feature almost all of them capitulated and added the ability to lock UI elements, those that didn't are usually the games that yoiu can't move the UI elements around anyway.

Accidentally dragging UI elements around while playing is a major point of contention in many mmo's and causes major problems, usually at the worst possible moment.
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#244 - 2011-12-01 10:40:04 UTC
In my opinion, pinning, collapsing and stacking is better than what you might consider "a modern GUI system". Really couldn't care what is deemed "modern" or not, but the three aforementioned ideas make window management so much easier.

Nowhere is it more easy to resize or move a window accidentally than when ship spinning or rotating the camera a little in space. Pinning should stay, it's so much easier. Oh and also, I've noticed that I can make my drone bay a certain width to fit between two things, but when I relog it resizes itself to be slightly wider. Pain in the backside tbh.

Collapsing (I assume that is the double clicking the header bar and it collapsing into that bar) is also useful, I use it for the ingame browser, because I can leave that at the top and barely notice it when it's collapsed and can easily access it. I much prefer this feature to minimising windows, which get in the way of when I'm typing in chats.

As for stacking windows... Are you seriously telling me this isn't a "modern GUI feature"? I seriously hope I have misinterpreted what "stacking" means, because if it is what I think it is, CCP have gone backwards.
When you stack windows, you get tabs and can switch between these tabs. Every popular internet browser now has tabs. A few years ago if you wanted another page opening, you'd have to open it in a whole new window, tabs have become extremely popular and now you won't find a browser without this. What's more, ingame it helps save space, by storing multiple chats in one window.

I thought I heard somewhere that they're reverting pinned windows back to being pinned. Can anyone confirm this? Or was I simply having a very, very nice dream?
Ibeau Renoir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2011-12-06 01:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ibeau Renoir
CCP Optimal wrote:
For pinning (just the transparency change bit) we might be able to remove that option altogether, make the active window background fade in (look like an unpinned window) and all other windows fade out (look like pinned windows). I have actually played around with this a bit and it reduces the visual noise of the UI quite a bit, drawing the attention of your eyes to the active window while keeping other windows well readable and the 3d scene visible, so it looks promising.

I actually strongly dislike making windows transparent, with the exception of overview, selected item and drones. In particular transparent chat windows are very hard to read. My current monitor is too narrow to have two chat windows open in the bottom left without overlapping them, and if they're also transparent, the overlapping text is quite illegible. It's a pity this means I can't pin them because chat windows moving around is my #1 UI gripe (after overview/selected item/drones moving around, but that bug's been fixed).

Making transparency depend on focus is a stupendously dumb idea IMO. I really don't understand when people think "it's not focussed, so the user obviously isn't looking at it". As an example one of the things I hated most about Windows when I was forced to use it instead of RISC OS was that focussed windows are on top, always and without fail. It's not possible to have a non-focussed window in the foreground without ticking an "always on top" option that I don't actually want and usually isn't available, or enabling the obscure option called focus-follows-mouse which is prone to cockups and not taken account of by a lot of programs.

CCP Optimal wrote:
Collapsing windows has always seemed like a weird little thing to me, and for some reason it always reminds me of Windows 3.11, which is less than great. Do people use this feature? I know that some people use TAB to collapse/expand all windows, but wouldn't it make more sense to minimize/maximize all windows instead, while allowing you to exclude some windows (such as the overview)?

I use this a lot. People & places, market, and especially the IGB while doing missions/anomalies. Collapsing is quicker to reverse than minimising if you just want to get a window out of the way for a few moments. I don't usually collapse all windows, but I imagine that if pinning worked properly, there'd be less need to do it.

Also in regard to collapsing, if the window you're collapsing is snapped to a window at the bottom, either the window that's snapped to it moves up, or it ends up collapsed just above that window instead of where its title bar was. I never expect this but it happens a lot and annoys the hell out of me every time. Really, the only thing I use snapping for is to get my windows neatly positioned. I never use it to group windows to move them around together.

CCP Optimal wrote:
What about features like SHIFT-dragging windows to drag an entire snap-group of windows ... is this the first time you ever heard of this or is it a keeper?

As mentioned above this is one misfeature I would like to see die in a fire, or at least turned off. It also interacts badly with "stack windows only if shift pressed". Suppose you want to take a chat window and stack it with another one that it happens to be snapped to. You start by holding shift and dragging the window... but then the window you're trying to merge it with starts moving too! You have to drag it out without shift, THEN shift-drag to stack.

CCP Optimal wrote:
Are there other weird little things in the window system that nobody uses that we could probably axe without much rage?

Window systems 101: Modal windows are bad, mmkay? Every modal window is annoying and should be made not modal, unless you can think of a COMPELLING reason for it to be modal. Selecting installations in industry is a prime example, as is the petition system. If modal-ness were to disappear entirely there would be much rejoicing.

The fact that PI windows are always on the BOTTOM is stupid. They should be windows like any other, closing only when you tell them to, or when you leave planet mode. When I'm setting up new routes, more often than not I accidentally close the window because I accidentally clicked outside it rather than on the "create route" button.

The circular menu just gets in the way. I never use it. I only even see it by accident, when I'm trying to move the camera. I guess some people must use it, but please allow me to turn it off. Setting it to middle button is a poor compromise since I use that for PTT (on the rare occasions when I need to use Eve Voice).

Ceci n'est pas un sig.

Ibeau Renoir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2011-12-06 21:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ibeau Renoir
Scrapyard Bob wrote:

CCP RedDawn wrote:
The following issues should be fixed in an updated client near you soon™:

Locking pinned windows in position.

So this was fixed in today's patch, right? Right?

Ceci n'est pas un sig.

Screaming Hayabusa
#247 - 2011-12-08 19:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lhorenzho
Dudes....just bring that **** back. Seriously removing it was just silly on your part.
Inner Fire Inc.
#248 - 2011-12-09 23:07:10 UTC
GOOD NEWS: The option to "lock windows when pinned" is back on Sisi current build (325367).

BAD NEWS: A fresh copy of my TQ install patched to Sisi build 325367 RESETS MY FRAKKIN WINDOWS TO DEFAULTS AGAIN.

WTF? I just fixed all my window and game settings two weeks ago.