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Why new people are critical to EvE

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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#1 - 2014-07-05 18:39:59 UTC
First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?

That is reason number one new players are important to EvE, they pay cash. There are exceptions, but for the most part new players pay for subs. They also pay for plex as wealth accumulation in this game can be very slow at the start. There are veterans who put their money where their mouth is, but for new players it is almost a given.

Reason number two is they buy off the market. They do not come into being in a guild that produces all that their members need. Instead they grind this and that and go to the market to buy the next step in their ascension. There is a reason why items that a bitter vet wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole sell on the market.

But more importantly, imo, new players bring new ideas. In a game that bills itself as a sandbox with extremely limited content provided by the developers new ideas are the only thing that keep this game fresh. Another Hulkageddon or permit scam or insidious corporate takeover or blue donut will not keep people interested for very long. The next big thing will not come from someone with 15000 posts defending things the way they are. It will most likely come from someone just joining the game that says "what if?"

tl:dr give the kid a chance.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2014-07-05 19:03:23 UTC
Eve is like S&M.

Some people find pleasure in it and others find it just painful.
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
#3 - 2014-07-05 19:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Yazzinra
Rowells wrote:
Eve is like S&M.

Some people find pleasure in it and others find it just painful.



well now i'm confused. I thought it was pleasurable because its painful Ugh

edit: on topic, no, I don't think most folks understand how pay to play games work. just look at how many people think just because you sub with plex CCP isn't getting any money.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#4 - 2014-07-05 19:41:42 UTC
CCP actively tries to recruit the dregs of internet that no other game would allow past character creation with their come to EVE and grief like it's what you were born to do attitude.

While there is nothing wrong with that per se, it's not all there is and shouldn't be focused on to the exclusion of everything else. There is so much more potential to this game than just paying $15 a month to be able to get away with being a total **** to everyone else. Sadly, it seems that most new players are total dicks.

It might be time for CCP to try attracting a more creative type of person into the game. Reach out to potential players that are interested in cooperative empire building and not just destruction. People who want to work together for more reason than to build trust for a corp theft. People that want to actually create stuff and sell it to you for an honest profit rather than as a set up for a scam.

Again, there is nothing wrong with destruction, corp theft, scams etc. They just shouldn't be the only thing that comes to mind when they think about EVE.

I'm not talking about changing game mechanics. I'm talking about CCP learning to attract a broader type of player profile and not just asshats. The OP is right. New players are critical to this game. But lets get more than one type in here. If all you attract is morons, then no matter what content you add, the game will still stagnate. And it has been. Contrary to how people like to pretend that the modest increase in characters is more than just alt accts.

Mr Epeen Cool
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2014-07-05 19:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nexus Day wrote:
First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?
…and just because the game subscription-funded doesn't mean that those answers are incorrect or inappropriate (beyond maybe some lack of diplomacy).

Those two particular comments are levelled against people who come into EVE expecting it to be something else, and when they figure out that they haven't done their research, they demand it be changed to match their expectations rather than adjust those expectations to match reality.

Yes, new players are important because they bring in subscriptions and ideas, but that doesn't translate into them being something that must be retained at all costs. Some simply aren't interested customers, and it'll take them a sub cycle or three to figure this out. Trying to replace the existing customer base by catering to the ever-changing, inconsistent, and very short-term whims of players who don't actually want to play the game to begin with is a sure-fire way to kill the game in one development cycle.

tl;dr – the kid gets a chance if s/he gives the game a chance rather than instantly demand it become like any of the myriad other games s/he'd rather want to play.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-07-05 19:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Chewytowel Haklar
Nexus Day wrote:
First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?

That is reason number one new players are important to EvE, they pay cash. There are exceptions, but for the most part new players pay for subs. They also pay for plex as wealth accumulation in this game can be very slow at the start. There are veterans who put their money where their mouth is, but for new players it is almost a given.

Reason number two is they buy off the market. They do not come into being in a guild that produces all that their members need. Instead they grind this and that and go to the market to buy the next step in their ascension. There is a reason why items that a bitter vet wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole sell on the market.

But more importantly, imo, new players bring new ideas. In a game that bills itself as a sandbox with extremely limited content provided by the developers new ideas are the only thing that keep this game fresh. Another Hulkageddon or permit scam or insidious corporate takeover or blue donut will not keep people interested for very long. The next big thing will not come from someone with 15000 posts defending things the way they are. It will most likely come from someone just joining the game that says "what if?"

tl:dr give the kid a chance.



What if I can just join a queue and have a 1 vs 1 engagement with a prefit ship of my choosing that I can lose over and over again. Perhaps I can learn faster in such a battle arena without having to lose my ships in the process, but those provided by the queue. :D

EDIt: Oh and you cannot get podded so you can try out various implant configurations without worrying about loosing them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#7 - 2014-07-05 20:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Nexus Day wrote:
First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game.


I can guess that you never played Ultima Online, then. There were quite a few people who I would have been happy to see them just leave, rather than make the kind of effect on the game that they did.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-07-05 20:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Nexus Day wrote:
First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?

i understand what a niche market is

*Snip* Removed off topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-07-05 21:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.


Quote:
First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?


I agree its important to keep new players, however we don't want to keep them if it costs us the game we enjoy.

New players who join the game and think they are getting another wow clone, and get upset when they find out they are wrong don't belong here.
Nose' Feliciano
#10 - 2014-07-05 22:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nose' Feliciano
What EVE is like:

When I was a kid, i got it in my head to build a tower out of a single deck of playing cards.

Just to see if i could do it.

It took me weeks of tries and retries. A straight up tower is not the same as a house of cards, so stability was always an issue.

It became an obsession and i was determined to do it.

Then one day, without fanfare I did it....and I won my own personal "EVE."

Remodeled Crane Concept
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#11 - 2014-07-05 22:09:28 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?


Yes we do know. We also know that there are a lot of games out there and people should play those games rather than seek to change this one to suit them.

Why should people who LIKE EVE be forgotten for people who don't like it. You don't see us in WoW going "damn, this game needs spaceships and killmails".

EVE is a rather exclusive niche game. We like that and want that to continue. What we don't wat are legions of people (like you) who can't appreciate EVE for what it is and keep trying to preassure CCP to change it.

Quote:

That is reason number one new players are important to EvE, they pay cash. There are exceptions, but for the most part new players pay for subs. They also pay for plex as wealth accumulation in this game can be very slow at the start. There are veterans who put their money where their mouth is, but for new players it is almost a given.

Reason number two is they buy off the market. They do not come into being in a guild that produces all that their members need. Instead they grind this and that and go to the market to buy the next step in their ascension. There is a reason why items that a bitter vet wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole sell on the market.


Why is it that every 'EVE needs moar new players" type poster is also the samekind of poster that doesn't know basic things about how EVE works.

Who cares is 'new players" pay 'cash'. Old players buy plex which bring more moeny to ccp than 'cash' does. And what 'guild' (this is word is how you know someone doesn't belong here btw) builds stuff for players other than carriers and other capital ships? 'Alliances' expect players to be self sufficient.


Quote:

But more importantly, imo, new players bring new ideas. In a game that bills itself as a sandbox with extremely limited content provided by the developers new ideas are the only thing that keep this game fresh. Another Hulkageddon or permit scam or insidious corporate takeover or blue donut will not keep people interested for very long. The next big thing will not come from someone with 15000 posts defending things the way they are. It will most likely come from someone just joining the game that says "what if?"

tl:dr give the kid a chance.


Nonsense, new players don't know enough about the game to know what a good idea is, like you for example lol. Thank you for that 'just think of the children' nonsesn at the end though.

EVE needs new people, the RIGHT new people. Sandbox minded, brave new people who don't suck, not bored WoW/CoD instant gratification XBox live exiles.
Marsha Mallow
#12 - 2014-07-05 22:55:09 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time".

People who demand gameplay changes that would turn this into another WoW clone might not be aware EvE really isn't for them. Not sure why "GBTWow" is seen as such a massive insult when it's pretty good advice, and will probably save a lot of teeth-gnashing and head-desking.

There's no point trying to argue new players are worth more revenue to CCP. The playerbase here doesn't particularly care and has minimal impact on CCP revenue streams anyway. If they wanted to make a generic themepark MMO purely to rake in the money on kickstarter or whatever, before folding after 18 months, they'd have done that in the first place.

Go back to WoW please. Or I'll resub my account and run up and down on your forums demanding a hardcore mode with perma death and the ability to scam, loot and make raiders cry on comms in a EULA compliant manner. Then make up loads of spurious, ill-informed claims as to how it will increase revenue.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#13 - 2014-07-05 23:17:34 UTC
It was mentioned at Fanfest this year something about the New Player Experience that should help the new players, course we know how that goes when a noob gets podded first time in space. However when we as a community try to get new players we are so critical and so defensive about other people coming from WoW and other communities it's like we treat them like they have a plaque or something.

Sure, the new players come expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter but that's not how it works, they expect everything right out the undock to be there for them without realizing there's work involved to get to the next "level" so to speak. This is why they are so critical of the sandbox, and how we go about doing things and then grow into the path we chose to follow.

Nobody never told me it was gonna be this way and to find out over time just how Eve works, I gotten along quite nicely in a lot of ways on my own even. Any corp I ever been in has been helpful including my present corp., they have extended to me helpful ideas and suggestions and I made changes to those and with good results even.

But alas, when a newbie comes in and they give Eve a try for a time and see how it all fits and works together, they don't realize as I said just how much harder it is to advance further into this community. I got enough battle scars to prove it with.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#14 - 2014-07-05 23:24:49 UTC
New player retention can be achieved by improving middle and endgame contents. Because new players sure won't stay around if the prospect of their future in EVE is just a boring grind with nothing exciting or rewarding to do.

Every. Feature. Matters.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-07-05 23:43:07 UTC
What CCP NEEDS to do is dig up all the old pre-NGE and pre-CU SWg players and let them know EVE wants them.

Seriously, the semi-sandbox game that SWG originally was was awesome until SOE decided WoW made too much money, and that making a NEW game was too much work, so they decided to turn a game that was already successful into a risen dead frankenstein of a themepark.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-07-06 00:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
What CCP NEEDS to do is dig up all the old pre-NGE and pre-CU SWg players and let them know EVE wants them.

Seriously, the semi-sandbox game that SWG originally was was awesome until SOE decided WoW made too much money, and that making a NEW game was too much work, so they decided to turn a game that was already successful into a risen dead frankenstein of a themepark.


In a sense Wizards did the same thing with 4th Edition D&D ( though TT D&D always had a PvE spin to it, but at least in 3.5 the monsters were equal to human characters and controlled by a human).

The OP however has a point. Most of the non-alt highsec "carebears" will never move to null and become renters or takeup ganking. The idea that if they "just tried PvP they would love it" is particularly stupid. Some might most will not. So harass them enough they will just leave.

Aside from a loss in subs, there is a critical mass for players in a game and once it gets below a certain level people will stop logging in. At the moment EVE drops below 20,000 online in non peak times at which point most of low, non SOV null, and parts of high are already empty. Lose another 10,000 players and PvP opportunities off-peak will get very sparse on the ground.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-07-06 00:40:24 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
What CCP NEEDS to do is dig up all the old pre-NGE and pre-CU SWg players and let them know EVE wants them.

Seriously, the semi-sandbox game that SWG originally was was awesome until SOE decided WoW made too much money, and that making a NEW game was too much work, so they decided to turn a game that was already successful into a risen dead frankenstein of a themepark.


In a sense Wizards did the same thing with 4th Edition D&D ( though TT D&D always had a PvE spin to it, but at least in 3.5 the monsters were equal to human characters and controlled by a human).

The OP however has a point. Most of the non-alt highsec "carebears" will never move to null and become renters or takeup ganking. The idea that if they "just tried PvP they would love it" is particularly stupid. Some might most will not. So harass them enough they will just leave.

Aside from a loss in subs, there is a critical mass for players in a game and once it gets below a certain level people will stop logging in. At the moment EVE drops below 20,000 online in non peak times at which point most of low, non SOV null, and parts of high are already empty. Lose another 10,000 players and PvP opportunities off-peak will get very sparse on the ground.

And a majority of those "non-alt highsec carebears" contribute little to the game itself, outside of flushing mroe ISK into the economy we dont need. Its not so much they need to "get into pvp" as much as they need to "join the community".

The amount of "solo" players EVE has is the problem, people who willingly choose to never associate with other players, either individually or as a group, are the antithesis to what EVE is supposed to be about.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#18 - 2014-07-06 00:58:36 UTC
This is going to go well....

You are not playing EVE correctly unless you have a superiority complex as large as Titan. This game cultivates trolls and asshats crazy.

But beneath all the fuss, I think they are worried the best sandbox game will get simplified or changed to something more like WOW level by players who may not truly understand or love the game.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#19 - 2014-07-06 01:16:33 UTC
There are no new players to EVE. Anyone who was every going to try EVE Online has done so.


You could ask why most never stayed but the answers won't be put in a neat little package. They will range and there will be lots of them but really it's all about information bloat. You see it even in the people who stay. All fits, all content, all scenarios in EVE are an attempt to reduce the useless information being thrown at you in bucket loads.

"It may prove valuable if turned in at proper authorities" The description on every dog tag in EVE Online. One of millions of examples where information is provided that has no actionable value. It creates a question and there is seldom an answer.

People who haven't wasted years filtering the useless information in EVE burn out in a matter of weeks and do what common sense people do. Go find a video game that makes sense at a basic level.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-07-06 02:35:03 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
It was mentioned at Fanfest this year something about the New Player Experience that should help the new players, course we know how that goes when a noob gets podded first time in space...


I was ganked and podded for my Geno implants given to me as a gift by CCP for signing up when I was only 3 weeks into the game. I immediately realized that Eve was like no other MMO I'd played and that made it the best freakin' game ever. I've been playing for a year and half now and still love it.

There is Eve and there is every single other MMO. Eve doesn't need to become like all the rest.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
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