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The Abaddon

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Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-07-05 13:06:44 UTC
Hello,

I was wondering what's the point of a this, ship that doesn't have the cap to fire with the guns it was designed to use (naturally, you can't even think to use anything else at the same time) ?
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#2 - 2014-07-05 13:24:12 UTC
Having the Kador skin trumps everything. And even so, it is a perfectly fine ship.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-07-05 13:34:26 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Hello,

I was wondering what's the point of a this, ship that doesn't have the cap to fire with the guns it was designed to use (naturally, you can't even think to use anything else at the same time) ?


May I introduce you to "Heavy Capacitor Booster II" and his little friend "Cap Booster 800"
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-07-05 13:48:39 UTC
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-07-05 13:54:15 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...

If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-07-05 14:07:34 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...

If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you


And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2014-07-05 14:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...

If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you


And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ?

LAZORZZZZZ!!!

also, if you are getting into a battleship you should have advanced weapon upgrades to 5.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-07-05 14:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...

If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you


And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ?

Not losing DPS because your target is further than 10 km from you. Putting 1k DPS out to 30km or more depending on your weapons.

edit: anyway, the abaddon really shines in a fleet or gang when it can get the support of a logi and a cap chain. its not a PVE ship and its not a solo PVP ship
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#9 - 2014-07-05 14:24:34 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...

If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you


And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ?

Not losing DPS because your target is further than 10 km from you. Putting 1k DPS out to 30km or more depending on your weapons.

and looking slick while doing itCool

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-07-05 14:32:13 UTC
This is the problem with the Abaddon:

http://i.imgur.com/U2ml1BC.png

10k EHP is not worth having less range, less DPS, 66% of the speed, a gigantic signature radius that gets destroyed by bombers, and double the cap drain. The cap drain on the Abaddon is so bad you can't even run the guns alone on a medium injector, and you can't fit a heavy injector without two grid mods.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-07-05 14:44:38 UTC
Ok, now try pulses.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-07-05 14:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Abaddon with pulses only has about 5% more DPS than the Megathron with railguns until you're closer than 20km, and if you're that close the Mega should be using blasters, meaning it's vastly superior again. All the other problems the Abaddon has also still apply. Remember, Scorch L actually does less DPS than railguns with CN antimatter, the Abaddon just has the advantage of one extra gun.

In short, being 5% better from 20km to 45km is not worth being useless past 60km while the Mega shoots all the way to 150 just fine.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-07-05 15:53:09 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Ok, now try pulses.


146k EHP

649 DPS @ 53+13 with Scorch

909 DPS @ 17+13 with Conflagration

[Abaddon, PVP]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-07-05 16:13:27 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Abaddon with pulses only has about 5% more DPS than the Megathron with railguns until you're closer than 20km, and if you're that close the Mega should be using blasters, meaning it's vastly superior again. All the other problems the Abaddon has also still apply. Remember, Scorch L actually does less DPS than railguns with CN antimatter, the Abaddon just has the advantage of one extra gun.

In short, being 5% better from 20km to 45km is not worth being useless past 60km while the Mega shoots all the way to 150 just fine.

The abaddon also receives much better reps since it has much better resists than your megathron. Your fit only has equal EHP because you have 3 plates rather than 2. Again, the abaddon is a fleet or gang ship, not a solo ship.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#15 - 2014-07-05 16:23:19 UTC
Now compare the Megathron to every other T1 BS and you will notice a trend.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#16 - 2014-07-05 17:26:00 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...



You put the Abby on the field for tank, lots and lots of HP. 150 to 180k EHP is common.
It should mostly be used to fight other BS fleets or bigger. In those fights, it won't need a sebo to lock other BS, and it won't need tracking to hit them.
It's not built with a lot of extra mids for *stuff*. You get a MWD, Cap Booster, Point, and 1 choice for a utility.
Top slots: all guns, I like Pulse personally
Bottom slots: all tank, plates and hardeners and a DCII.

I like that fact that fitting is really straight forward and the role is clear.
And in a mixed fleet, who is gonna be primary? NOT the Abby.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#17 - 2014-07-05 17:43:12 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Hello,

I was wondering what's the point of a this, ship that doesn't have the cap to fire with the guns it was designed to use (naturally, you can't even think to use anything else at the same time) ?


You amarrian fanboy's need to make up your mind: When there is a cap usage bonus on a ship, you whine it is a useless bonus. When there is none, you whine there is not enough cap.

Lasers are a weapon system that have excellent damage amount and projection capabilities. They can also switch ammo instantly and have no reload problems. This comes at a price of fixed damage type, cap usage and fitting. You can see a similar trend in every other weapon system. They have pros and cons.

Abaddon is awesome in fleets and not awesome alone. It is a fate it shares with many other ships.

If you want an advice, look at t2 cap usage reduction rigs. AFAIK they are cheap and help a lot with cap issues.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#18 - 2014-07-05 18:00:23 UTC
Rumor is, abaddon rocks at solo-pvp in highclass wolf-rayet systems, fitted with small pulse lasers ♥
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-07-05 18:50:18 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...



You put the Abby on the field for tank, lots and lots of HP. 150 to 180k EHP is common.
It should mostly be used to fight other BS fleets or bigger. In those fights, it won't need a sebo to lock other BS, and it won't need tracking to hit them.
It's not built with a lot of extra mids for *stuff*. You get a MWD, Cap Booster, Point, and 1 choice for a utility.
Top slots: all guns, I like Pulse personally
Bottom slots: all tank, plates and hardeners and a DCII.

I like that fact that fitting is really straight forward and the role is clear.
And in a mixed fleet, who is gonna be primary? NOT the Abby.


If you're fighting a "fleet" of battleships fitting a warp disruptor is ridiculous. You are not going to be within disruptor range of your opponents. Fleet fights don't happen at 20km. However, if you somehow did expect to be within 24km of the opponent, why aren't you using a Megathron with blasters? It's obviously far better than the Abaddon at that point.

Warp disruptor is theoretically good in small gang but guess what? Small gang and battleships don't go together anymore since they nerfed warp speeds.

The fact is a Tachyon Abaddon is flat out inferior to a rail Mega in basically every way, and a Pulse Abaddon is only "superior" to the Megathron against a narrow set of ranges (20 to 45km) and even in that range it's only slightly superior on DPS and EHP, and still has the monster cap drain/low speed/gigantic sig problems. On top of that it's useless past 60km and extremely inferior sub-20km where it's going to be competing against blasters.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-07-05 19:02:58 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
If you're fighting a "fleet" of battleships fitting a warp disruptor is ridiculous. You are not going to be within disruptor range of your opponents. Fleet fights don't happen at 20km. However, if you somehow did expect to be within 24km of the opponent, why aren't you using a Megathron with blasters? It's obviously far better than the Abaddon at that point.

Warp disruptor is theoretically good in small gang but guess what? Small gang and battleships don't go together anymore since they nerfed warp speeds.

The fact is a Tachyon Abaddon is flat out inferior to a rail Mega in basically every way, and a Pulse Abaddon is only "superior" to the Megathron against a narrow set of ranges (20 to 45km) and even in that range it's only slightly superior on DPS and EHP, and still has the monster cap drain/low speed/gigantic sig problems. On top of that it's useless past 60km and extremely inferior sub-20km where it's going to be competing against blasters.


Amen
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