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[PYRE] Public Disclosures 5 JULY YC 116

Author
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#21 - 2014-07-06 22:42:12 UTC
Technically, that's just prisoner transport. They're not slaves until enslaved, which can't legally happen in the State. If you want legal issues, I'd say the murder of surrendering forces, murdering State personnel etc certainly qualifies. The problem becomes that we're really not bound by their laws. We're given swats on the nose by CONCORD if we accidentally something in high-sec and that's pretty much the extent of it.

There's not many of us that allows tighter bonds than law to govern our demeanor in New Eden. Some of us consider our loyalty and bond with the State to mean that we should uphold the ideals, rules and measures taken by the State even if we aren't legally bound by them anymore. It's such a pity Diana Kim isn't one of us, because if nothing else she does have a fire that could burn brightly within the right framework.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#22 - 2014-07-06 22:48:16 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Technically, that's just prisoner transport. They're not slaves until enslaved, which can't legally happen in the State. If you want legal issues, I'd say the murder of surrendering forces, murdering State personnel etc certainly qualifies. The problem becomes that we're really not bound by their laws. We're given swats on the nose by CONCORD if we accidentally something in high-sec and that's pretty much the extent of it.

There's not many of us that allows tighter bonds than law to govern our demeanor in New Eden. Some of us consider our loyalty and bond with the State to mean that we should uphold the ideals, rules and measures taken by the State even if we aren't legally bound by them anymore. It's such a pity Diana Kim isn't one of us, because if nothing else she does have a fire that could burn brightly within the right framework.

A technicality, yes. But giving the Minmatar over to the Amarr knowing full well what will happen to them is just as bad. Kim might as well tack Slaver onto her title list.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#23 - 2014-07-06 22:54:01 UTC
Oh certainly. She just hasn't to my knowledge broken any laws while doing so, although I'm sure good legal reps could probably make one hell of a case for it. There are other far more obvious flaws with Diana Kim that would have her locked up for perpetuity if she wasn't protected by the pod.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#24 - 2014-07-06 22:58:11 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Oh certainly. She just hasn't to my knowledge broken any laws while doing so, although I'm sure good legal reps could probably make one hell of a case for it. There are other far more obvious flaws with Diana Kim that would have her locked up for perpetuity if she wasn't protected by the pod.

Damn that pod....

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-07 01:34:12 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

- Transfer Minmatar POWs directrly to Empire authorities ASAP after capture.


Transporting slaves within the state is a crime.

I doubt that there are slaves in the Republic.

As for capturing slaves as POWs (for example, from amarr and some pirate vessels), they lose their status as slaves and become prisoners, and will be dealt accordingly.
If they were slaves to a holder, who was fighting against the State, they were fighting against the State as well, and thus should be treated as enemies of the State.

Exception are True Slaves and other Sansha beings. They aren't humans anymore, just flesh drones, and should be disposed of just like broken but dangerous equipment.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-07-07 01:38:28 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
.-Caldari POWs are given chance to tribunal (usually consisting of three of my crew top ranked officers) and are publicly executed for treason.

I was also unaware that the state lacked a proper legal system and that you have the authority as a capsuleer to put these men and women on trial and execute them.

Martial law. In absence of proper legal authorities, justice can be served by hands of a board of officers, who are well acquainted with service regulations.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-07-07 01:44:27 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Oh certainly. She just hasn't to my knowledge broken any laws while doing so, although I'm sure good legal reps could probably make one hell of a case for it. There are other far more obvious flaws with Diana Kim that would have her locked up for perpetuity if she wasn't protected by the pod.

Damn that pod....

I am quite often outside of the pod, and often deal with State authorities.
If you want to do something about me outside of a pod - be my guest, and don't listen to ramblings of a pseudo-scientist idiot.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2014-07-07 06:05:13 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
.-Caldari POWs are given chance to tribunal (usually consisting of three of my crew top ranked officers) and are publicly executed for treason.

I was also unaware that the state lacked a proper legal system and that you have the authority as a capsuleer to put these men and women on trial and execute them.


The State has firm laws and rules on the handling of Prisoners of War. Most State Protectorate capsuleers adhere to them and repatriate their POWs in a timely and humane fashion.

Sadly the State is unable to enforce these laws upon Capsuleers, who are free to do what they wish. And if you think it's only Diana who does this, I have some unfortunate news about some of the FDU pilots...

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#29 - 2014-07-07 07:02:35 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
.-Caldari POWs are given chance to tribunal (usually consisting of three of my crew top ranked officers) and are publicly executed for treason.

I was also unaware that the state lacked a proper legal system and that you have the authority as a capsuleer to put these men and women on trial and execute them.


The State has firm laws and rules on the handling of Prisoners of War. Most State Protectorate capsuleers adhere to them and repatriate their POWs in a timely and humane fashion.

Sadly the State is unable to enforce these laws upon Capsuleers, who are free to do what they wish. And if you think it's only Diana who does this, I have some unfortunate news about some of the FDU pilots...


Oh what would you know, Veri.... ...


... well now. I'll be... somewhere else.
Off comms. For a bit.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2014-07-07 22:01:21 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
.-Caldari POWs are given chance to tribunal (usually consisting of three of my crew top ranked officers) and are publicly executed for treason.

I was also unaware that the state lacked a proper legal system and that you have the authority as a capsuleer to put these men and women on trial and execute them.


The State has firm laws and rules on the handling of Prisoners of War. Most State Protectorate capsuleers adhere to them and repatriate their POWs in a timely and humane fashion.

Sadly the State is unable to enforce these laws upon Capsuleers, who are free to do what they wish. And if you think it's only Diana who does this, I have some unfortunate news about some of the FDU pilots...


Oh what would you know, Veri.... ...


... well now. I'll be... somewhere else.
Off comms. For a bit.


You alright there, Jinari? Not in distress or something?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#31 - 2014-07-07 22:57:24 UTC
Oh yes. Very distressed. Insert knight in shining armor / damsel joke here, a few double and triple entendres and other things that make the IGS cringe.

Of course, it could just be the shellshock from seeing someone actually follow my advise. Ever.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2014-07-07 23:28:27 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Oh yes. Very distressed. Insert knight in shining armor / damsel joke here, a few double and triple entendres and other things that make the IGS cringe.

Of course, it could just be the shellshock from seeing someone actually follow my advise. Ever.


On a long enough timeline the probability of anything rises to one. Besides, it does look better, no?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#33 - 2014-07-07 23:36:05 UTC
Hevaima Gesakaarin, i must say i feel like Diana Kim, that it is unwise to return 3043 prisoners of war back to the Republic while the war still rages on.

I admire your trust that you have in the shaman,but i believe that trust is misplaced in thinking that some kind of trial will take place.

If you change your mind regarding the extradition, the Horn family will happily hold the prisoners of war according to the articles set out by the State, to feed them and take care of their medical needs. Once the war with the Republic is over we will release them give them free transport back to the Republic.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#34 - 2014-07-07 23:37:02 UTC
Well, the only thing better than a proper Civire granite chin is a proper Civire granite chin with a beard on it. Anyway, I think we've derailed this as far as we can without crossing some lines that shouldn't be crossed in public.

I'm curious to see what will be done with the POWs, though.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-07-08 04:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Diana Kim wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
.-Caldari POWs are given chance to tribunal (usually consisting of three of my crew top ranked officers) and are publicly executed for treason.

I was also unaware that the state lacked a proper legal system and that you have the authority as a capsuleer to put these men and women on trial and execute them.

Martial law. In absence of proper legal authorities, justice can be served by hands of a board of officers, who are well acquainted with service regulations.


You ******* worthless *****.

I defy anyone to say that I have not been, as it were, a Caldari Patriot. A loyalist to an empire. An irrational patriot. A killer of Gallente and Minmatar alike in service to the State.

Diana Kim, under and by what authority do you kill my kin? By what authority are you judge?

We have legal authorities. We have the Tribunal, and the Navy, and the CPD, and your desire for blood has no place in our State.

If Caldari surrender, well, considering the treatment Gallente afford POWs, more fool them. Yet, nonetheless, we are better. We have honor. We will and must accord both our and their personnel correct and respectful treatment, for that is what we are.

THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF BEING A SEPARATE PEOPLE, A SEPARATE STATE, IS BECAUSE WE ARE, AND MUST BE, BETTER!

The entire purpose of the seccession, the entire purpose of our existence, is to be better. To embrace honor, to embrace our humanity over barbarity, to NOT bombard planets for their desire for self-determination, to NOT abuse prisoners of war, to NOT succumb to hate over professionalism. To be ourselves, to be the best we can be, regardless of what others would make us.

I hate the Gallente. But I follow the orders of the CEP. You do not. You are a loose warhead, an unchained cannon, a rogue. You are not of us. What Caldari kills his brother, her sister? What Caldari tries an abused prisoner of war for trying to live?

You are not of us. You are not one of us. Begone from us. Depart from us. Alien. Xeno. Foreigner. Hnolku.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2014-07-08 05:09:18 UTC
I speak in support of Vikarion. His order to fire started my opposition to the Dictator and it came because that man set Caldari against Caldari. Vikarion said that we must be BETTER than that and, together with others there that day, we made the Homeguard accountable for 'serving execution' on their own.

Cold Wind demands we not forget who our enemy are, beneath the blood!

I know that I stand accused in the eyes of many of you for the things I allowed to be done and the things I did myself to criminals in my power, but my wrongs do not make Diana right.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#37 - 2014-07-08 10:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ava Starfire
We have found suitable arrangements for them, thank you.

It has been a pleasure to deal with reasonable people, who do not allow zeal and chauvanistic idealism to override sense. We sometimes forget that real people suffer and die as a result of our militia conflicts. If we are to claim ourselves patriots to our homelands, we must mitigate the harm we do, whenever possible, even tho those who are in the service of the enemy. Harming POWs does nothing except invite a cycle of further retribution, which grows and grows and never ends.

Thank you.



And to Diana;

Returning POWs to their home under well established laws is quite legal, Ms. Kim.

Going rogue and shooting at your countrymen in uniform is not.

I do hope one day you stand before a proper military tribunal. We shall all see how much you truly value the norms and laws of your homeland, when the full weight of its wrath comes down upon you for treason.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Nuona
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-07-09 19:21:31 UTC
The new management seems to have its affairs well in hand. I must say it is a pleasure to see integrity ascendant in the marketplace.

Moitte.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#39 - 2014-07-09 20:32:52 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
.-Caldari POWs are given chance to tribunal (usually consisting of three of my crew top ranked officers) and are publicly executed for treason.

I was also unaware that the state lacked a proper legal system and that you have the authority as a capsuleer to put these men and women on trial and execute them.


The State has firm laws and rules on the handling of Prisoners of War. Most State Protectorate capsuleers adhere to them and repatriate their POWs in a timely and humane fashion.

Sadly the State is unable to enforce these laws upon Capsuleers, who are free to do what they wish. And if you think it's only Diana who does this, I have some unfortunate news about some of the FDU pilots...

No, I fully realize that every empire has it's "bad eggs", but Kim seems to go out of her way to make it known.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-07-09 20:46:08 UTC
Vikarion wrote:

Diana Kim, under and by what authority do you kill my kin? By what authority are you judge?

And by what authority you missed your reading classes and dare to blame me, when you simply can't understand what was written?
Do you need glasses? Or maybe a nun to read you, and maybe repeat louder so you can understand?

Vikarion wrote:

I hate the Gallente. But I follow the orders of the CEP. You do not.

And maybe Im not? And maybe I fight for the State and CEP, while you hide your coward butt in Maker-forsaken system, screaming obscenities at those, who actually DO something for the State, eh?

Vikarion wrote:

You are not of us.

Yes, I am not one of coward deserters like you.
I am Caldari and soldier of the State.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.