Assembly Hall

Hi all,

Right So basically i see an inconsistency in logic in the game and would like to report it but Support guys basically said non of there business.

Game Play Bug

Warp mechanic
right so bumping a ship knocks it off its align and increases its speed correct ?
so why is it i can use an MWD on an orca to warp faster while unaligned and way over the warp threshold.

was ganked recently using the bump mechanic, lost a ship but what ever (first rule of eve don't undock if you cant afford to loose it)
The Gank was well executed and very well planed (fair play to brave noobies)

Ship Lost was a "What ever" moment cause i was tired at the time but it got me thinking around the logic of the micro warp and around webbing and bumping there inconsistent.

So For Warp you require to be at a certain speed and fully aligned correct?

So there for the MWD Trick shouldn't work and the webbing trick shouldn't either as your not fully aligned.
(Obviously being over the speed is necessary)
Bumping as GM Mace and GM The Doctor Put it is an intended mechanic.

And as a developer my self and inconsistencies in logic annoy me to no end so id love for a dev to take a look.
More detail around why this works as it does would be great, a fix would be fantastic but a explanation from a dev would be amazing.

Regards
Mr Yoshine
Sansha Sympathiser

P.s Thats it now troll away Forum dwellers XD

Didnt read it properly did you saw a change and started the opinion this is not about getting away its about how the mechanic works and how it should work intended by CCP. the fact that i didnt get away is irrelivant thats pilot error as in my bad lol

Ok, so... warp requires two things...

- alignment towards the object in question.
- be between 75% and 125% max speed.

The MWD-pulse and webbing trick are not inconsistencies... rather, they are workarounds that manipulate the speed requirement (alignment isn't a consideration when starting from a "dead stop"... you are already "aligned" once you start moving).


How it works:

- The MWD-pulse trick increases the max speed of a ship, however the agility (acceleration) of certain ships are so low that they will never reach even close to max MWD speed within one MWD cycle. Instead, they just happen to reach (or be within) that needed 75% to 125% max speed threshold when the MWD is turned off.

- The Webbing trick does the exact opposite of the MWD-pulse trick... instead of temporarily increasing max speed it reduces it to where the current speed is.
Again, remember that some ships have very poor agility (meaning very poor acceleration).
A single web reduces max speed (not current speed) by 60%. Two webs by ~87% (because stacking penalties do apply). This means that a freighter that has a max speed of ~100 m/sec only needs to be going ~10 m/sec for the desired outcome (warping).



As for what CCP thinks of them...

- the MWD-pulse trick has been known and used for years. More thrill-seeking players often combine them with a cloak (the T2, non-Covert-Ops one) to get through gate camps in battleships.
Petitions (and threads) have often been filed against this tactic but they usually are rebuffed and the filer pointed towards the Features and Ideas forum if they "feel very strongly" (which is then generally rebuffed by the playerbase because we do not see a problem with it).

- The Webbing-trick was never intended by the DEVs... but it was showcased by CCP during Fanfest 2013 as an example of "emergent gameplay" that they were generally fine with (note: watch the whole thing, it is quite interesting how they view their own game and mechanics).

I remember it from a DEV post from long ago (you have to be within 25% of max speed)... and my Orca usually insta-warps when slightly over max speed (using the MWD trick).

edit: after some tinkering I think the reason your Cov-Ops insta-warped is because its agility is very high, which means that it speeds up and slows down very fast. You were probably going well over 1000 m/sec at the end of MWD cycle... but once it comes down enough it flies into warp (the speed would have to be down to 500 m/sec).

Okay so... here is where we get into some technical stuff.

The server only sees your ship as a sphere (the diameter of this sphere is the "axis" listed in the in-game ship viewer).
"Front" is wherever your trajectory is. To be "aligned" to something is to have your trajectory pointing in the direction of your selected "target" with no curvature in your flight path.

What you see in the client is purely graphics. Whenever your trajectory changes, the client will try to adjust the graphics accordingly. However this doesn't always work out and it occasionally "glitches" or is not fast enough (hence, the occasional sideways warp with large ships).

This also means that when you are at a dead stop there is no "front" to your ship (see: the "sphere" has no trajectory so the graphical "front" is based on what your last known trajectory was) and can warp in any direction you choose equally well (see: "passive alignment" is a myth).


Now... when you begin warp from a dead stop, you are already "aligned" towards a target... you simply have not fulfilled the speed requirement (which webbing and the MWD-pulse trick work around).

And when someone bumps your ship, they are altering your trajectory so you cannot fulfill the alignment warp condition (even if your speed is sufficient).

Purely a point of "its bugging the hell out of me" no meaning to disrupt anyones game but this kinda stuff annoys me :D personal bug for code bugs :D