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What discourages people to try solo pvp?

Author
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#61 - 2014-07-03 16:44:21 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
A lot of people try solo PVP.

They quickly realize, however, that CCP has decided they don't really care for it much and have been changing the combat mechanics over the years to discourage it.

At this time, it's just not worth the trouble to do. And that's a shame as I like a little one on one every once in a while.

Mr Epeen Cool


Solo PvP, in any MMO, but especially a sandbox is not really a sane design goal, it is in direct conflict with diversity (e.g. 100s of different ships).

As soon as you start encouraging 1v1 someone is going to want the battleships balanced with the frigates Ugh


His name was Infinity Ziona. Cool
Nose' Feliciano
#62 - 2014-07-03 16:45:14 UTC
Because much as I try, my shuttle just cant pop that battleship.
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#63 - 2014-07-03 16:48:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
A lot of people try solo PVP.

They quickly realize, however, that CCP has decided they don't really care for it much and have been changing the combat mechanics over the years to discourage it.

At this time, it's just not worth the trouble to do. And that's a shame as I like a little one on one every once in a while.

Mr Epeen Cool


Solo PvP, in any MMO, but especially a sandbox is not really a sane design goal, it is in direct conflict with diversity (e.g. 100s of different ships).

As soon as you start encouraging 1v1 someone is going to want the battleships balanced with the frigates Ugh


His name was Infinity Ziona. Cool


The defense rests its case. Big smile
Samuel Triptee
Drunken Beaver Mining
#64 - 2014-07-03 17:06:43 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:


Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile? For me? Man, that's a long list! You'll excuse me if I give just a few examples:

Sex.
Eating.
Drinking.
Pissing & shitting.
Shitposting.
Singing.
Dancing.
Going to the beach.

Actually, gotta go to the beach just now. Lol



Hope those aren't in order. Consider if you haven't done any of these in 5 days.

Have You Hugged Your Frigate Today?

Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2014-07-03 17:13:38 UTC
I don't care how lone wolf the ganker is .. pvp is not fun unless you can show off. Barring extreme profit, either a recording or verbal aftershock in crowded and public local chat are necessary to adequate feed the poor solo gankers epeen... else why do it?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-07-03 17:17:52 UTC
> Falcons, Blackbirds, Griffins
> Gatecampers - get all set up to go on a roam, jump out a couple of jumps, fly straight into gatecamp (i fly true solo, no links, alts, scouts, etc)
> Interceptor fleets that land before you show up on grid
> People who bring 30 guys to kill one guy.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2014-07-03 19:23:57 UTC
I do solo pvp, but I have no idea what the **** I am doing. :D

So I die a LOT! So much so that I just got fed up with FW for awhile and decided that my only really decent source of income in EVE atm is to just try and farm plexes or do FW missions. However, I have realized that because I suck so bad at pvp right now it might be pointless to even try any longer. Or at least try without some SERIOUS help from someone in the game who actually knows how to teach someone like myself who isn't an expert gamer how the hell to actually fight and stay alive. And that isn't to say I haven't tried to look up information, ask for help, try out builds, and frankly even then I get totally destroyed a good 95% of the time.

I normally just warp off and wait for pirates or the occasional WT to leave so I can actually try to recoup my losses and build some form of income in the game. I'm even so desperate to earn isk in pvp atm I put stabs on my ships when mission running so I can skip every single gate camp I see. I get called ***, called out in local, and frankly have absolutely no desire to say gf most of the time I lose another ship. Gf to me is like saying "hey I actually thought I had a shot there and you managed to really pull it off!"

I can't even tell you the level of frustation I feel when having to go refit yet another ship...it's getting pretty damn tiring.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2014-07-03 19:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: BrundleMeth
Jenni LaCroix wrote:
Before I go on, please note that nobody cares about your killmails, by showing how you killed a vindicator with an enyo, and then replying some crap like "wtf you talking about, there is full of solo combat", so don't try use this post as a means to show off your precious kills, nobody cares as although I am sure you might have nice kills, the purpose of this post is not to show them off. Thanks!

Good way to start a post. By bitching... Stopped reading there...



Gully Alex Foyle wrote:


Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile? For me? Man, that's a long list! You'll excuse me if I give just a few examples:

Sex.
Eating.
Drinking.
Pissing & shitting.

I like doing all those too.....But at the same time...
Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#69 - 2014-07-03 19:38:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Baden Luskan
Jenni LaCroix wrote:
Before I go on, please note that nobody cares about your killmails, by showing how you killed a vindicator with an enyo, and then replying some crap like "wtf you talking about, there is full of solo combat", so don't try use this post as a means to show off your precious kills, nobody cares as although I am sure you might have nice kills, the purpose of this post is not to show them off. Thanks!


Now, I am wondering since experiencing this myself, as well as my in-game fellows, I am wonder what turns people off from getting into solo combat?

I understand that obviously isk is an issue. Often solo pilots need alts (2nd. account) as scouts, some go as far as taking off-grid boosters (which more and more I understand why, because they must be feeling frustrated with being ganked non-stop so they try increase their survivability), but my point is, solo fighting in eve, does have its cost. You lose 3 normal fitted Assault Frigs, you are at around 100 mio isk loss.

However, that does not have to be like this. You can fit t1 frigs and destroyers for under 10 mio isk, have them very well fitted, and at least every now and then, go for fun fight. I have solod coercers in duel rep incursus :), kill brawler comets with kite merlins, and the experience in such an engagement, is so much fun, especially the interaction you have with the other pilot as a result. The good fight in local, then the convos, the fit requests, and there ya go, you got a new in-game buddy that you stay in contact with, share fits and share your victories and losses. My point, solo combat can add an incredible amount of fun to the game. Anyway, there is so much muli-tasking that you do during such engagements, but most of the times your fun is quickly ruined as the half a dozen more t2 frigs are on scan with ECM support, and they are about to land. With other words, you are in a rifter, orbiting a enyo at that borderline range with barrage hitting it while still taking null damage, but why does the enyo have to have 5 more assault frigs come in, with ecm support? I know that they can do this, I respect it but when I research about the people in my losses, I see so many like many year old accounts with 0 solo kills. Have they just not even once tried?

Why is it so much less common then it used to be? Again, I don't care about troll replies of people that don't do pvp trying to proof me wrong, there are in-game channels (bringing solo back), as well as serious concerns of solo players in this game, that solo combat is more and more harder to find, and as a solo pilot, I can see this daily.

So, what is it perhaps except isk (like I said, you can have fun with t1 frigs and destroyers, and even cruisers since the buff and they sure are cheap to fit now), what discourages the great majority of eve players to try solo combat? They just have no clue, the fun they are missing out on.

Oh at last, please no "eve is a multiplayer team play" crap reply, which is wrong, you can do any role that you wish here, doesn't have to be in a group always, and the point of this thread is to ask what discourages people, not your personal opinion about solo combat not belonging to the game.


Quite simply, people are adverse to solo PvP because of the game design of "whatever one person can do good, more can do better." You may want to do solo PvP, but if you go out looking for random targets, I'm pretty positive that the target you found did not intend to solo PvP, and really does not wanna lose the ship they are in. That means a quick call for help to any nearby friends and suddenly your 1v1 fight is now a gang-up on you.

Because of this mentality, it's difficult to get a large group of people that will play the game solo. Add to that the vast area the players play in and you can see why solo PvP is so rare. Eve is really not set up for solo PvP. I think this is why some players turn to ganking miners...it's the twisted form of solo PvP that has evolved in Eve because of the lack of other viable solo targets in PvP.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#70 - 2014-07-03 20:21:04 UTC
Everyone has a certain disposition for certain things.

Bakers just want to bake

Cooks just want to flip burgers

Architects want to design

Engineers want to build

Industrialists want to produce

Miners want to mine

Explorers want to explore

Soldiers want to fight

All these things you probably studied for and thought about whilst growing up. You see? While Johnny and Tom were playing soldier at playtime, Little Harry was building stuff with his Meccano and while that was going on little Suzy was mixing stuff to see what would happen.

Do you get it yet?

Not everyone wants to do the same sodding thing...

It's this games biggest downfall that 90%+ of users on these forums think everyone else should be doing what they are, ie pvp. Hence everyone not doing that is playing the game wrong.

The single thing that attracted me to this game was the fact that I could do, and be, exactly what I wanted to do or be.

What that is has exactly sweet FA to do with anyone else playing this game.

Have fun, fly safe.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2014-07-03 20:26:32 UTC
Samuel Triptee wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:


Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile? For me? Man, that's a long list! You'll excuse me if I give just a few examples:

Sex.
Eating.
Drinking.
Pissing & shitting.
Shitposting.
Singing.
Dancing.
Going to the beach.

Actually, gotta go to the beach just now. Lol



Hope those aren't in order. Consider if you haven't done any of these in 5 days.
Well, I'd relax in private 15 minutes to take care of the bowels. I may take my tablet and take care of the shitposting, too.

Then, off to the beach party for everything else!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Deebo Singleton
#72 - 2014-07-03 21:10:37 UTC
I don't think anything is sytematically discouraging solo pvp, aside from the nature of numbers. I solo quite a bit and I get the ~honourablesolopvpgudfites from time to time, but only seeking that kind of stuff and not taking up the easy ganks and opportunistic joint ops with your mate who is three jumps out I don't understand. That's a level of dedication to gentlemanspaceconduct that doesn't register with me.
big miker
Frogleap Factories
#73 - 2014-07-03 21:17:55 UTC
Interceptors and Ishtars, bloody hate those! Lol

Solo pvp, or should I call it duo pvp ( booster alt ) is what I love doing in this game. The ability to overcome and win certain situations is what thrills me. Like most people have said, solo pvp is pretty hard. Usually you get blobbed, ECM jammed or cyno jumped upon.

It took me a long time to become decent to good at it. I've been pvp'n in frigates for almost a year in my early days. The time it takes to learn the mechanics is probably the biggest discouragement for any player. And even if you keep on trying, you will get blobbed or ecm jammed regularly and you don't learn anything from those situations. Even if you use different intel tools, you will NOT know everything!

Fitting cookie cutter fits for solo pvp won't get you that far either. Be original, fit ships differently. Using a ship for a completely
different role makes up for some interesting fights!

Knowing how to properly fly a ship makes you better than the majority of the playerbase, better than most of the people in fleets. Because people who don't know how to properly fly, need buddy's to stay alive.

Oh, and video making! Positive comments gives you even more motivation to keep on solo'n Big smile

-Miker
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#74 - 2014-07-03 21:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Raider Ray wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Solo has no point. I like it for the fights themselves, but it's an utterly pointless and costly actitivy.
Such as playing videogames?


Would you elaborate on what non income earning type of activity is considered worthwhile?


But off course. Do check people's KB before implying all they have on their minds is ISK. Lol Although I fully admit I enjoy shooting people to get a chance at their stuff though, I won't deny I enjoy looting players! Pirate

Fleeting is a social occasion at least, and thus more deserving of the time I can reserve for Eve. I don't see the point in playing alone or limiting myself for challenge-purposes in an already sanboxy game. It just doesn't click with me when you can also do something more strategic, or something that inflicts change, somewhere some way. I do still try (true, non-linked) solo from time to time, but Eve has more up-scale things to offer I simply like better. The odds too. Lol
Marsha Mallow
#75 - 2014-07-03 22:04:39 UTC
This topic has some really interesting remarks, but I'm not sure why it has to be pitched as a negative query in the first place? If you want to encourage people to solo, promote it. There's some really useful info in the OP (I've always wondered if there are ingame solo channels) but it comes across as asking why people make up reasons not to solo. There doesn't really seem to be a very visible or accesible community of soloers, which is a shame in terms of getting people to try it. Having said that an OP of "How can we encourage solo PVP?" would probably still get a lot of negative replies I suppose.

Anyway I've always wanted to give it a go. Even if I lose loads I'm not too bothered now (although early on it was a deterrent) as I can fund the activity, and it does clearly give a deeper understanding of game mechanics, tactics and fittings. My reasons for not doing it are due to being recruited into a corp really early on and roped into group activities, leaving little time for anything else. Once you are in a corp you feel a bit bad messing up their killboard trying to learn the ropes. I've trained a few low SP alts to stick in something like RVB to start, or just an alt corp to derp about in, probably will start giving this some attention over the next few weeks (any tips more than welcome).

Time is a significant a factor and it shouldn't be dismissed. If you play in corps that use pings you can just log in for a fight as and when. Some older players still log in daily and rack up the hours, some find it a bit tedious. Maybe competent soloers can get fights a bit quicker if they know where to look, but early on it's a huge time sink. It's also relaxing (particularly for those with RL stress) to mentally disengage a bit by joining fleets where other people do all the work and they just follow orders. I poke fun at blobmonkeys a lot (several of whom need to learn to detect when they are being teased) but I've done it myself for years and enjoyed it for various reasons. It's as valid a playstle as soloing for the adrenaline buzz v0v

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2014-07-04 00:02:28 UTC
EVE needs new mechanics that reduce force multipliers. That will help with the solo PvP problem. Also CCP needs to revisit active tanking (e.g. non ancil shield boosters, which are crap unless you deadspace+booster alt + drugs + implants).

I get that EVE is a sandbox, but there's no reason why you can't have parts of space with different engagement rules, or simply areas of space that encourage solo/small gang PvP. Faction warfare does this somewhat, specifically the plexes, but for the most part this is only true for frigates. It would be great if there were similar things to encourage solo/small gang PvP in places, specifically for all ship classes and not just frigates - that would also make it easier just to find fights. The fact that you can end up warping around for hours without finding a fight is probably a big discouraging factor as well.
Jimmy O'Shanty
The Westies
#77 - 2014-07-04 02:30:25 UTC
Everybody tries solo PVP once. Only masochists go back.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#78 - 2014-07-04 03:35:27 UTC
Jimmy O'Shanty wrote:
Everybody tries solo PVP once. Only masochists go back.


In the immortal words of Britney Spears('s songwriter):

Hit me baby one more time.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-07-04 04:08:21 UTC
Nothing discourages me from solo PVP, but I think having a good wingman would make it tons better.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-07-04 04:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Garandras
I love doing solo pvp.. and i one of them scrubs that are too poor for a booster alt (that being said i don't use implants or drugs either).. and personally hate people that rely on Falcon alts.

But its the hunt that I love.. when i started pvp due to my skillset and coming from a pve background.. I decided the quickest way to get into a fleet ship was to go interceptor. So got in the ceptor and made the effort to learn how to properly use the dscan and how the make the hero tackles and survive got good at that, then took a break from the game and when i came back decided to try doing something a little different and went for some solo pvp and 2-3 gang work.

It basically requires more thinking and skill then anything else in the game, you have to know all ship types and possible fitting and make the decision to commit or not in a moment. I also find if I find myself camped in by a gang, I will try to call for a honorable 1v1 for the fun (or just there are no viable targets to be found).. and if you do get a taker most of the time his friends will sit back to its clear that he is losing and then you normally have time to finish him and warp, or you die knowing you were the better pilot.


But for starting solo.. you dont actually have to fly fully 'solo' if you are in a small gang with your mates move around a few systems seperatly looking for a target.. If you find something you can fight go for it.. It you find something that is too tough for you get the tackle and you have support near by, over time you will get better and more confident and then in no time you will be flying true solo