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Changes to SOV , Power Projection & Nullsec Stagnation

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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#461 - 2014-07-08 22:01:32 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Wormholes should be only addition to logistics.
Why all gates allow all types of ships to pass?

So we have grate idea about capitals passing regional gates , as the only way to change regions.
I suggested more connections for each region so each region have NPC space connection.
This gate don't have to be capital mass capable.

Why not add gates that will only allow moving smaller ships.
So we can have gates that will allow to move :
- XXL ( so every possible ship )
- XL ( every thing smaller from mothership and titan)
- L ( so current sips allowed , including JF)
- M ( every thing not capital -> so this will exclude freighters and jump freighters)
- S ( Smaller than battle cruisers , but industrial ships will be also allowed)

Now each SOV region have at least :
- one XXL Stargate in the direction of the NPC Space
- XL gates in the direction of other SOV space
- one M gate linking to the nearest NPC space , unless there is already direct XXL Stargate to NPC space

For the NPC space itself.
All NPC nullsec space will have few S size gates to 0.1 sec Lowsec , number will be dependent on the system count.

This way there will be always logistic window.

I live in Stain, and it is a bit on the edge of the map, so while keeping current connection styles.
We have XXL Gates to :
- Esoteria
- Catch
- Period Basis

In order to move capitals to Lowsec we have to go :
Catch -> Providence -> Lowsec

As Stain don't have direct access to lowsec we will have 2-3 S gates to lowsec created.
At the same time Stain will get M gates to regions :
- Paragon Soul
- Impass
- Feythabolis
- Omist? unless Curse is not closer



I like the spirit of your idea but this can be gamed to easy. It only slows power projection a little not by a margin we need to really change the face of nullsec. But this is good thinking for sure.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#462 - 2014-07-08 22:06:26 UTC
Draahkness wrote:
I am liking the idea of lived-in-sov. So how about something like this:

Anyone who does (pretty much) anything in a system pushes his/her corp/alliance sov uppwards in the form of sov-points. The corp/alliance with the highest sov-points will be the sov owner after DT. Set a maximum points at say 1000 to ensure it will not take 50 months to get rid of someone who has been entrenched a while.

Examples of things to affect sov:
Kill a rat: 1 point
Sell an item on the market: 5 points per transaction (ammo, charges and shuttles excepted to minimise abuse)
"Pop" a roid: 1 point
Sov structure of some sort (few hitpoints, short reinforce timer and hackable): 200 points, lost if reinforced or hacked, lost permanently if destroyed.
Destroy a piloted ship that belongs to different alliance/corp: 5 points (shuttles and noob ships excepted)
Destroy a capsule belongs to different alliance/corp: 10 points
Successfully complete a hacking site: 10 points
PI: 1 point per 1000 units moved off planet. Owning the customs office 25 points/office, lost if CO is reinf

A few examples and the numbers may be stupid but you get my point. This means A/ Renters will be the sov owners within a week or two. B/ Taking systems require some effort apart from blowing the sov-strucure. C/ The more a system is "lived in" the more work is required to dislodge the owners even for a hugely superior force. D/ Less or not at all "lived in" systems can be taken quite easily. E/ Everyone, from the JF "import" guy to the grizzled combat pilot contributes daily.

Thoughts?



I disagree with the idea of ship losses affecting influence over sov. Poor groups like brave newbies would be in empire in no time if PVP prowess was a factor. They are newbies of course they are going to lose more ships than vets. This only would strengthen the veteran player base and deter newer players from coming to nullsec. I think we should look for ways to make nullsec more inclusive. I like the idea of well utilized system being very hard to take versus a underutilized system being easy to take. That way if you have a PVE/Industrial centric alliance that utilizes there space well they cannot be steamrolled by a Elite PVP group or a Zerg of Bees (heh).

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
GodsWork
Realm of God
#463 - 2014-07-08 22:26:54 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Draahkness wrote:
I am liking the idea of lived-in-sov. So how about something like this:

Anyone who does (pretty much) anything in a system pushes his/her corp/alliance sov uppwards in the form of sov-points. The corp/alliance with the highest sov-points will be the sov owner after DT. Set a maximum points at say 1000 to ensure it will not take 50 months to get rid of someone who has been entrenched a while.

Examples of things to affect sov:
Kill a rat: 1 point
Sell an item on the market: 5 points per transaction (ammo, charges and shuttles excepted to minimise abuse)
"Pop" a roid: 1 point
Sov structure of some sort (few hitpoints, short reinforce timer and hackable): 200 points, lost if reinforced or hacked, lost permanently if destroyed.
Destroy a piloted ship that belongs to different alliance/corp: 5 points (shuttles and noob ships excepted)
Destroy a capsule belongs to different alliance/corp: 10 points
Successfully complete a hacking site: 10 points
PI: 1 point per 1000 units moved off planet. Owning the customs office 25 points/office, lost if CO is reinf

A few examples and the numbers may be stupid but you get my point. This means A/ Renters will be the sov owners within a week or two. B/ Taking systems require some effort apart from blowing the sov-strucure. C/ The more a system is "lived in" the more work is required to dislodge the owners even for a hugely superior force. D/ Less or not at all "lived in" systems can be taken quite easily. E/ Everyone, from the JF "import" guy to the grizzled combat pilot contributes daily.

Thoughts?



I disagree with the idea of ship losses affecting influence over sov. Poor groups like brave newbies would be in empire in no time if PVP prowess was a factor. They are newbies of course they are going to lose more ships than vets. This only would strengthen the veteran player base and deter newer players from coming to nullsec. I think we should look for ways to make nullsec more inclusive. I like the idea of well utilized system being very hard to take versus a underutilized system being easy to take. That way if you have a PVE/Industrial centric alliance that utilizes there space well they cannot be steamrolled by a Elite PVP group or a Zerg of Bees (heh).


Its a nice idea the bee zombie invasion has to stoppp...... before it reaches empire and caldari loose sov to BEEZZZZZ
Doris VanGit
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#464 - 2014-07-08 22:32:31 UTC
Unfortunatally its been along time since i lived in Null, so i cant really comment in detail.

However, looking at some of the posts on here there are some interesting points being put across.

A few suggestions i would throw on the table are;

1. Remove the Titan bridge, afterall is this ship not powerful enough without putting a fleet of 200 ships straight on a POS. This means that peeps have to fly to the destination, which could lead to that fleet being attacked on route. May reduce a little lag as well. That way if you want BS on field straight away they use Black Ops with Capital support.

Or reduce the the number of ships to 20, and but a timer on the timer for bridge usage.

Will peeps really want to fly so far just to held some renters out? Will this change how the larger alliances conduct there wars? I dont know

2. Remove Supers and Titans from low sec. This means that smaller corps can have there fun as well, without being counter dropped by bigger more powerful alliances just because there are caps on the field. Also see 1, in regards to the Black Ops and caps in low sec. Therefore less Bat Phoneing and peeps may have to fight there own battles. If the cant fight them, there loose the space.

3. Think i have to agree with the passive income, that someone mentioned in an earlier reply. Remove the expensive moons and put them into mining sites. After all its the bigger alliances that control these and dont give the smaller alliances/corps a chance. Why should the bigger alliances have a free run to all the high end isk by doing a little work?

Just my 2 pennies worth
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#465 - 2014-07-08 22:45:27 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
So I am all for all out war but I cannot call what others want to do. I am the minority here most will want to make agreements so they have some reasonable measure of security... It's sad and makes me sad.

And the reason you remain a part of this despised majority is - what?
Why dont you quit PL, create your own alliance, call it Against ALL... ehm... Carebears, and wreck the havoc?

That's because it involves efforts and risks, and you're either too lazy or too scared (or both). Instead, you go for ranting on forums, starting a topic #723467529346 about "how to fix sov". The sov is fine.

Sov is fine, yes.

Sov mechanics is broken, indeed - but the sovereignity map itself represents the state of mind of nullsec population and is therefore fine. Most people are risk-averse, deal with it. Those who chose to fight - they have all kinds of tools for that. They have NPC nullsec to live in, they have blackops to hunt the renters and siphons to drain the moons (since recently). Those tools may be sub-optimal and require some balancing/revamping, but they are there.

You may say - oh no, it's not for me, it's just pathetic guerilla warfare, and I want all out, I want to welp yet another 59 titans. Well, those titans, I remember them... and what triggered that fight. It was a Halloween War, which started... let me remember... after Solar Fleet and Darkness of Despair formed a coalition. And who are those DD dudes? I guess those were some try-hards from Stain, who (in the beginning) were not even able to take a single R64 moon. That's how you create content, Manny.

And also obligatory - your tears are delicious.


First I have created more content then you could ever even dream up and will continue to do so as much as possible. Secondly I don't leave PL because its my home my friends are here and I enjoy playing Eve with them. I have done the hard things I have innovated and I will continue. Siege fleet , Slowcats , Wrecking Ball , Deadzoning , Crushing Providence , Removing RUS from the drone regions. These are just a few things I have had an integral part of. Now that I have swung my E-peen around a little let me continue.

This isn't a cry thread I created because im unhappy the game isn't to my liking. Albeit that is true but I have been playing this game for a decade and wanting to play it for many many more years. I have a vested interest in its health and stability. I play in Nullsec so I have a vested interest in it's health and stability. CCP are on the cusp of making huge changes to nullsec and I want to participate in that discussion. I want Nullsec to be a more diverse and healthy place that embraces more than Blobs , Supercaps & Coalitions. With that said I play with the tools and rules I am given and I want to win. So before you tell me to just not win in the current set of rules and tools let me stop you and tell you noway. I am going to win or do my damndest trying. So the obvious answer is to change the tools and rules so that others have a fair shake. Because currently they don't Nobody has a chance of killing CFC nobody has a chance of killing N3 or PL. We have the people , the isk , the knowledge & talent to stop any wouldbe force that wants to unseat and destroy us.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#466 - 2014-07-08 22:45:53 UTC
All this obsession with putting timers on things. Speaking from a biased, empire haver perspective, I say put timers on jumps and bridges -- it hurts us way less than it does anyone else. If you want to perpetuate the status quo, adding timers to everything is the way to go.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#467 - 2014-07-08 22:46:59 UTC
Dhaq wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Theorethically interesting but need to be careful because that might make jumping into a capital fight suicide, and therefore reduce a lot the number of engagements.


How many capital fights do we have a year now? Does it really matter if they get reduced? It seems like the only reason they exists is to sit around 9-10 months out of the year, and simply deter smaller engagements from happening.

For as much pain as it is going to cause, capitals (or at least supers), and insta-jumping half-way across the universe need to be head-shot and taken out of the equation. There is simply no way to allow them to be used as it currently stands and have any type of productive environment. Those that amassed the most of these wonderful massively unbalanced ships first have won the game.



So when you create Eve 2 please exclude them but were all playing Eve 1 and are stuck with our pandora's box.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#468 - 2014-07-08 22:54:46 UTC
Yroc Jannseen wrote:
Words

I think most of youre suggestions are great in a vacuum ultimately though I see them aiding bigger groups and handicapping smaller groups. Also nullsec logistics don't have to get harder with my changes they are just accomplished by a different means. You and most people are looking at the tether to Jita and thinking " How do I survive without being able to buy sell there and transport easily to where I live". The answer is we boost nullsec industry and local resource harvesting to such a point that you can be self - reliant without needing the tether to empire. Sure you might make a run into the city for some specialty items that you cant get in the local shops. But it takes more time to run into the city and you use more gas and have to fight traffic and pesky things like that. You dont have a express lane that just whisk you there and back.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#469 - 2014-07-08 22:58:33 UTC
Kyle Brutor wrote:
Without going into too much detail into the problem of power projection itself, I'd like to introduce you to my simple concept to control it. This is simply a concept that I would be interested in hearing feedback on. I don't know whether it would be good or bad for the game but it wouldn't be as drastic as a change as some of the other ideas mentioned here.

Idea: all jump drive capable ships have a calibration amount that recharges kind of like capacitor does. The points of calibration are based upon how many light years the ship can jump. The exact numbers for capacity and recharge rate could be debated but an example would be that a ship could jump 50 light years and their calibration recharges at 10 light years per hour. (I don't know if those are even close to reasonable numbers, I just picked random ones.) Maybe even have skills that can increase the capacity and recharge rate as well. It would basically put a hard limit on to how far ships could jump within a certain time frame but also leave choices available. For instance, you may decide to jump into a fight but not have the calibration to jump out to even the nearest star system for at least 15 minutes. Moving across the galaxy would have to actually be a thing that takes a little bit of time and planning.



Can be gamed by rich/organized player groups who pony express via additional hulls or alts.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#470 - 2014-07-08 23:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Manfred Sideous wrote:

Arrow Regional Trade NPC is created to exchange racial building materials for other racial building materials the exchange rate would be based off the market trading average. So if you want to trade Helium Isotopes for Hydrogen isotope and Helium is 1000 p/u and Hydrogen is 500 p/u you would receive 2 units of hydrogen.
Arrow NPC Traders would be seeded initially in the conquerable stations in null sec and in a smattering of NPC Nullsec stations. There would be a station upgrade available that then could be added into player built stations.
Arrow NPC Trader upgrades would be hackable to disable the service for a period of 8 hours or until someone unhacks the hack.

One of the key selling points of Eve is the player driven economy. NPCs selling fuel as a convenience (even if npc prices are pegged to player markets) go completely against one of eve's chief distinguishing features. If NPCs sell fuel, why not ammunition and ships too?

Anyone that has off-racial towers or caps in a given region would be faced with a horrific logistical nightmare in your bold new vision of Eve. You quite evidently saw the logistical nightmare that ensued and came up with the brilliant idea of having NPCs fix it for you. Great. But if NPCs can fix one logistical nightmare, why don't we use them to fix other logistical nightmares (e.g. modules, ships, ammo, drones, etc.). NPC sell orders for everything!

Except that would leave you without chokepoints to camp for easy freighter kills. If everything is to be produced locally or imported by gate, fuel should also be produced locally or imported by gate. Don't half ass your changes, embrace them and all that they imply.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#471 - 2014-07-08 23:06:55 UTC
Querns wrote:
I guess I don't get the whole "jump bridges must be neutered" thing floating around. Ever since jump bridges were limited to one per system, these travel corridors are very easy to interdict -- simply focus your efforts on the gates between two links. It's certainly more interdictable than a titan bridge, which can not only reach farther, but can utilize beacons to more covertly move pilots between systems (in that a cyno is not required, which is broadcast to everyone in the game.) Compare this to jump bridges, which, by and large, do not change their links, and are typically published publicly, or at least widely enough to make their existence common knowledge. Hell; you can even divine the destination of a jump bridge by getting within 2500 meters of it and right clicking, even if you are hostile to the jump bridge haver in question!

Certainly, jump bridges are an advantage, but their use today is a symptom of the sprawl required to maintain a nullsec empire today, not the cause. Case in point: we prefer to use wormholes for moving our troops over large distances, despite the fact that we have an expansive jump bridge network. The jump bridge network is too easy to disrupt to be a reliable troop transport mechanism, so we use an alternative.



Jumpbridges are a huge advantage and stifle small gang pvp. I know they are in large part why I stopped roaming. Whats the point of bringing a small gang around only to get blobbed. Ok so you take fast mobile ships but the large blob can cutoff your escape by taking ever expansive jumpbridges. Then you find you're small gang camped in and are forced to be annihilated or logoff in disgust. It happened so much that it changed roaming to the point now you have roaming fleets. The days of solo roaming or 5-10 guys are gone.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#472 - 2014-07-08 23:12:23 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

Arrow Regional Trade NPC is created to exchange racial building materials for other racial building materials the exchange rate would be based off the market trading average. So if you want to trade Helium Isotopes for Hydrogen isotope and Helium is 1000 p/u and Hydrogen is 500 p/u you would receive 2 units of hydrogen.
Arrow NPC Traders would be seeded initially in the conquerable stations in null sec and in a smattering of NPC Nullsec stations. There would be a station upgrade available that then could be added into player built stations.
Arrow NPC Trader upgrades would be hackable to disable the service for a period of 8 hours or until someone unhacks the hack.

One of the key selling points of Eve is the player driven economy. NPCs selling fuel as a convenience (even if npc prices are pegged to player markets) go completely against one of eve's chief distinguishing features. If NPCs sell fuel, why not ammunition and ships too?

Anyone that has off-racial towers or caps in a given region would be faced with a horrific logistical nightmare in your bold new vision of Eve. You quite evidently saw the logistical nightmare that ensued and came up with the brilliant idea of having NPCs fix it for you. Great. But if NPCs can fix one logistical nightmare, why don't we use them to fix other logistical nightmares (e.g. modules, ships, ammo, drones, etc.). NPC sell orders for everything!

Except that would leave you without chokepoints to camp for easy freighter kills. If everything is to be produced locally or imported by gate, fuel should also be produced locally or imported by gate. Don't half ass your changes, embrace them and all that they imply.



NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Mario Putzo
#473 - 2014-07-08 23:14:51 UTC
And what impacts would this have on Low Sec which is arguably at much greater risk in terms of logistics than Nullsec is currently.

Should lowsec once again take a shot so Nullsec can untangle its rats nest of shittiness?
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#474 - 2014-07-08 23:17:06 UTC
Doris VanGit wrote:
Unfortunatally its been along time since i lived in Null, so i cant really comment in detail.

However, looking at some of the posts on here there are some interesting points being put across.

A few suggestions i would throw on the table are;

1. Remove the Titan bridge, afterall is this ship not powerful enough without putting a fleet of 200 ships straight on a POS. This means that peeps have to fly to the destination, which could lead to that fleet being attacked on route. May reduce a little lag as well. That way if you want BS on field straight away they use Black Ops with Capital support.

Or reduce the the number of ships to 20, and but a timer on the timer for bridge usage.

Will peeps really want to fly so far just to held some renters out? Will this change how the larger alliances conduct there wars? I dont know

2. Remove Supers and Titans from low sec. This means that smaller corps can have there fun as well, without being counter dropped by bigger more powerful alliances just because there are caps on the field. Also see 1, in regards to the Black Ops and caps in low sec. Therefore less Bat Phoneing and peeps may have to fight there own battles. If the cant fight them, there loose the space.

3. Think i have to agree with the passive income, that someone mentioned in an earlier reply. Remove the expensive moons and put them into mining sites. After all its the bigger alliances that control these and dont give the smaller alliances/corps a chance. Why should the bigger alliances have a free run to all the high end isk by doing a little work?

Just my 2 pennies worth



If you are going to remove the titan bridge then the jumpbridge has to go then so its fair. Because a Jumpbridge can send the same amount of people forward. Or Perhaps the titan bridge can only bridge people to the sun .

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#475 - 2014-07-08 23:18:30 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:

NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH

You're still having NPCs run logistics for you, effectively having NPCs supply your market. That's just great. But if NPCs can run large volumes of fuel everywhere, why can't they run guns, ammo, modules, drones, or ships?

What your asking for is a nerf to logistics while simultaneously having NPCs fix one of the biggest logistical nightmares in Eve: fueling all of those off racial towers and caps in any given region.

NPCs delivering goods to your station is not a player driven economy. If your jump changes to Eve don't work without NPCs propping up every single station in null, your changes are crap.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#476 - 2014-07-08 23:21:35 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
And what impacts would this have on Low Sec which is arguably at much greater risk in terms of logistics than Nullsec is currently.

Should lowsec once again take a shot so Nullsec can untangle its rats nest of shittiness?


Those jumpfreighters can no longer just jump past lowsec from edge to edge. They have to pass through. Seems like a stealth boost to me. Because people will want to protect there JF's so you will see escorts that you can fight and kill or extort from.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Mario Putzo
#477 - 2014-07-08 23:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Also if this is simply about limiting the power of Capitals and JF and bridges etc.

Why not just split all the regions in EVE into ranges that can not be jumped to or bridged to. Example. Tenal > Cobalt Edge.

Give Capitals the ability to jump gates, and the only way a capital fleet can go region to region is by jumping through that regional access gate.

So you can move about as normal (by todays standards) within any particular region. But moving Region to Region would require you to take gates and Super Carriers and Titans would not be able to bridge into, or jump inter regionally. Unless perhaps CCP gave us the capacity to create a unique player built gate that would facilitate Super Capitals jumping through it or something.


Manfred Sideous wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
And what impacts would this have on Low Sec which is arguably at much greater risk in terms of logistics than Nullsec is currently.

Should lowsec once again take a shot so Nullsec can untangle its rats nest of shittiness?


Those jumpfreighters can no longer just jump past lowsec from edge to edge. They have to pass through. Seems like a stealth boost to me. Because people will want to protect there JF's so you will see escorts that you can fight and kill or extort from.


Ya that doesn't really impact LS in that capacity. You would just simply have people...as they do today, Staging in the first lowsec system outside of Highsec, with no way to actually remove those people from that space (unlike null where a starved alliance can and will likely lose access to that space etc.). Ultimately it would lead to a similar problem that Nullsec currently faces with the bigger entities pushing out the little guys.

As it is today a small corporation or alliance can be effective in Lowsec because JF's allow them access to the market, changing the mechanics of that simply means guys like PL who sit in Ammake will essentially dominate a entire regional access simply by sitting in Gulm or Houla.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#478 - 2014-07-08 23:29:15 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

NPCs wouldn't be selling anything. It would be a barter/exchange system with market averages setting the value of the item bartered. You couldn't exchange your loot for some topes or minerals. You could exchange locally mined resources for resources not available locally. So Helium for Hydrogen , Nitrogen , Oxygen Isotopes. Things like that. The exchange rate fluctuates daily based off what the gamewide market average is. So if your Helium is worth 1k p/u and the isotope you want to exchange for is 500 you would receive 2 units. HTH

You're still having NPCs run logistics for you, effectively having NPCs supply your market. That's just great. But if NPCs can run large volumes of fuel everywhere, why can't they run guns, ammo, modules, drones, or ships?

What your asking for is a nerf to logistics while simultaneously having NPCs fix one of the biggest logistical nightmares in Eve: fueling all of those off racial towers and caps in any given region.

NPCs delivering goods to your station is not a player driven economy. If your jump changes to Eve don't work without NPCs propping up every single station in null, your changes are crap.



NPCs aren't delivering anything. You are trading something that is deleted from the database in exchange for a item thats created in the database on a fair even and equal level. You have to obtain the original source item by mining it somewhere along the line. Or do you think villagers in minecraft are secretly out mining all those diamonds you are trading emeralds for. Also if you can point me to the villagers emerald stash they have acquired from all those trades it would be awesome. /sarcasm

So yeah the main thing you hear anytime you talk about nerfing power projection is making logistics harder unfun and zomg how people who do logistics are going to kill themselves (in game) or quit. So this is a fair and equitable way to achieve power projection nerf without burdening logistics people. I mean they will still make trips to export goods and to import goods but the amount should be way less thereby limiting their desire to kill themselves (in game) or quit. Also when they are making these trips they will have friends and comrades to help them along their way.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#479 - 2014-07-08 23:30:58 UTC
Just to reiterate my point here, having NPCs magically run/"exchange" fuel to remote null outposts is a complete Non-starter.

Players should have to deliver those topes to your outposts, not NPCs. Player driven economy is important. You should probably rework your idea with that in mind. All those off-racial towers and caps? Players need to supply them and every part of the supply chain leading to them, not NPCs.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#480 - 2014-07-08 23:33:43 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:

NPCs aren't delivering anything. You are trading something that is deleted from the database in exchange for a item thats created in the database on a fair even and equal level.

So NPCs are taking Helium sold in Amarr and making it available for exchange in VFK for locally mined nitrogen? Yeah, that's called NPC logistics and NPC delivery. If a player didn't bring those topes to VFK or wherever, then it's not a player driven economy, is it?