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W space little things.

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Author
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#81 - 2014-07-02 15:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Irregessa
mynnna wrote:

The difference being that DED site upgrades "work" in a way that is at least beneficial and welcome to the owners of the space, whereas the wormhole generators are just a means to invite more bored wormhole pilots to come in and roam your space and kill your ratters. Evil


I thought that was called "creating content"? Big smile

from The Mittani himself:

"Ratters are the plankton of the PvP foodchain; they provide targets for gankers, and gankers provide targets for small gangs, etc etc up the scale."
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#82 - 2014-07-02 16:04:35 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Someone cast "summon dev"?

So yeah, wormhole generators "work", they just work in a very laid back, casual way. There are a certain number of wormholes shared between all systems with each level of the wormhole generator upgrade, which scales more-or-less linearly with number of upgrades installed, and they move around between those systems in the same way that normal exploration sites do.

It's not a very good upgrade as it currently stands, but neither is it "broken" per se. (At least as far as we are aware - and the system involved is sufficiently generic and widely-used that I would be very surprised if there was anything wrong with it. If this was broken, anomalies would almost certainly be broken too, and we'd know about that.)

When you say "each level of the upgrade," do you mean that each upgrade level of the wormhole generator has a separate pool? Like, would a level 1 and level 2 wormhole generator upgrade pull potential links out of a separate pool of potential links, or do all levels of the wormhole generator upgrade pull from the same potential link pool?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#83 - 2014-07-02 16:55:01 UTC
i had a bunch written but the forum site ate my homework. the world will never know the genius ideas i came up with!
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#84 - 2014-07-02 16:56:36 UTC
i'll just say that spawning the static right away won't do anything. people will just crit theirs while running sites.

if anything, it might have a negative long term effect on pvp. Rage rolling will have less of a surprise factor.
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#85 - 2014-07-02 17:04:05 UTC
Broadly speaking I think that changes to w-space should make things more interesting for both PvE and PvP focused organizations. Note that "more interesting" does not always mean "easier." Anyways, that's not a little thing.

Little things already mentioned:

Sig tags and DT: This seems like a small tweak that makes ruskies/aussies/DT-adjacent TZs a little less miserable. At worst it returns things to how they were before the sig-list became systematic, and while having it be systematic is a minor convenience, I at least could certainly live without.

K162 spawns and sig spawning: My opinion on this has not changed. Delaying it isn't good for anyone except chain-rollers, not even all PvPers. Rather, spawning the sig it before it's scanned, and increasing connectivity, seems like a much more interesting change that might generate more actual fights, and make it more difficult to keep a system safe/know when you are safe.

C4 connectivity: Yes good double statics going up and down. Much more interesting, much easier to live in (since if it always has a down-static, you're never more than two jumps from SOME K-space).

Black holes: Something needs to change. I've had some fun fights in lower-class black holes, but they are really annoying. For reference, WH effects that I like are things like Magnetars and Cat Vars, that change how you have to approach combat situations entirely rather than just making it more difficult for everyone involved. (Magnetars mean you have to expect up to double DPS. Cat vars mean no triage and no local tank in general). Maybe make them inverse cat vars, so no logi 4 u? With marauders for self-tanked PvE that seems viable now, maybe even too viable.

Other little things:

More unknowns: Not necessarily turning all sleeper sites into Quarantine Areas, but at least having spawn trees, so you can get different things at any given wave, e.g., "do we get the neuting wave or the dps wave?" Makes things a little more interesting without being completely unpredictable.

More unknowns: Sleepers where you don't expect them. "decoy" WH sigs that are in fact sleeper traps. Better than sleepers spawning on WHs at random because it doesn't make logistics miserable hell.

More unknowns: Little unexpected behaviors. Random and/or rare pop-ups in some sites. Mysterious ships that appear and then vanish before you can kill them, as some missions have. NPC local broadcasts surrounding some events, like a new hole spawning or a new combat site. Or better yet, things that respond to player kills.

Give us some ******* mysteries, we came here for the unknown.
Shinjo Bajahnhosuu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-07-02 17:26:59 UTC
This comes up for me during escalations, but please make it possible to "untag" a ship in the overview. Right now if you accidentally tag the wrong ship or want to switch to a different set of sleepers due to range you can't remove a tag. This makes things very confusing.
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#87 - 2014-07-02 17:35:21 UTC
Shinjo Bajahnhosuu wrote:
This comes up for me during escalations, but please make it possible to "untag" a ship in the overview. Right now if you accidentally tag the wrong ship or want to switch to a different set of sleepers due to range you can't remove a tag. This makes things very confusing.


It doesn't remove the niceness of a clear tags hotkey but till they do, drop a can and use that to cycle through tags.

Public Channel | Un.Welcome

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#88 - 2014-07-02 17:35:47 UTC
mynnna wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Retar AveymoneIs this the same way the DED site upgrades work (which have always been assumed to be broken)?


Yup.


The difference being that DED site upgrades "work" in a way that is at least beneficial and welcome to the owners of the space, whereas the wormhole generators are just a means to invite more bored wormhole pilots to come in and roam your space and kill your ratters. [:evil: wrote:



systems with the wh upgrade should have sleepers move out into their system and scram the null bears for me. Your upgrade should come with a downside.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-07-02 17:39:53 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Your upgrade should come with a downside.

Why?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#90 - 2014-07-02 17:44:07 UTC
W-space is mostly pretty good how it is. The changes I wish for are:

- A personal SMA (the personal hangar does a fine job protecting the ammo, now how about something to protect the ships.)

- More products that utilize the sleeper loot. Currently it's value is tied to t3 cruisers. More products to diversify and give the worthless bits a value would be nice. It doesn't matter what the products are, ships, modules, drones, implants, deployables, whatever but something to give it value would be nice.

- Make the mobile scan inhibitor scoopable, it's a bit expensive to get much use in its current disposable form.

- Fewer cans at the data/relic sites, the current number is more of the hacking game than I want to sit through.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#91 - 2014-07-02 17:50:31 UTC
Why not? Give something to get something. Most upsides in eve have downsides to balance them. Mayhaps you are too accustomed to having it both ways.

Mostly, when I warp to a wh anom (C5) - I'm all in. Webbed, scrammed, neuted. I have to survive the whole thing and hold the field to loot and salvage. Comparatively the null bear warps in and out as he chooses, has local and gets bounties as he goes.

I've spent my whole eve life hearing how greater risks reap greater rewards and that's the benefit of living in null. Let's be honest - null is pretty much easy mode. Power blocks, blues, local, constellation wide intel channels. It would be nice to see a little risk for your isk.

Anytime I bring up anom rats scramming a ratter null folks are like.... OMG.... that's just dumb, and then a kitchen sink full of reasons that should never happen. You guys crack me up.

This thread is for little things to make wh life better. Null systems w/ the wh upgrade should get sleepers in system scramming them. THAT would make wh life better.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#92 - 2014-07-02 17:53:29 UTC
I would like one of those wormhole attracting upgrades that the null people apparently don't value.
Meytal
Doomheim
#93 - 2014-07-02 17:53:45 UTC
Kynric wrote:
- Fewer cans at the data/relic sites, the current number is more of the hacking game than I want to sit through.

Putting them closer together would be a great start. You shouldn't have to prepare a site perch to warp around and get to all the cans quickly, especially when there often isn't anything useful in them anyway.

mynnna wrote:
The difference being that DED site upgrades "work" in a way that is at least beneficial and welcome to the owners of the space, whereas the wormhole generators are just a means to invite more bored wormhole pilots to come in and roam your space and kill your ratters.

Show us on the doll where the evil wormhole pilot touched your ratting fleet.

Instead of crying, you should be thanking that bored wormhole pilot for creating content in Nullsec, improving activity in Nullsec, and boosting the economy (most likely the T2 market, ie, Nullsec).
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-07-02 17:53:59 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Why not? Give something to get something. Most upsides in eve have downsides to balance them. Mayhaps you are too accustomed to having it both ways.

Mostly, when I warp to a wh anom (C5) - I'm all in. Webbed, scrammed, neuted. I have to survive the whole thing and hold the field to loot and salvage. Comparatively the null bear warps in and out as he chooses, has local and gets bounties as he goes.

I've spent my whole eve life hearing how greater risks reap greater rewards and that's the benefit of living in null. Let's be honest - null is pretty much easy mode. Power blocks, blues, local, constellation wide intel channels. It would be nice to see a little risk for your isk.

Anytime I bring up anom rats scramming a ratter null folks are like.... OMG.... that's just dumb, and then a kitchen sink full of reasons that should never happen. You guys crack me up.

This thread is for little things to make wh life better. Null systems w/ the wh upgrade should get sleepers in system scramming them. THAT would make wh life better.

Ah, yes, the "nullsec is risk free" argument. Not interested in rehashing this.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#95 - 2014-07-02 18:01:23 UTC
I'll take your dismissal as a sign of defeat. You have no valid argument. Perhaps you could call me a name or link some spreadsheet showing where eve subscriptions would plummet if null rats scrammed. I've seen all the 'arguments'

It would hurt your tax income, defeat most botting programs and allow WH folks to drop in and do a happy dance all over your bottom line (cuz you can't defend you systems????)

I get it. Believe me - I get it.


I still want what I want. This isn't a debate. I've been dismissed by better.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-07-02 18:05:17 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'll take your dismissal as a sign of defeat. You have no valid argument. Perhaps you could call me a name or link some spreadsheet showing where eve subscriptions would plummet if null rats scrammed. I've seen all the 'arguments'

It would hurt your tax income, defeat most botting programs and allow WH folks to drop in and do a happy dance all over your bottom line (cuz you can't defend you systems????)

I get it. Believe me - I get it.


I still want what I want. This isn't a debate. I've been dismissed by better.

Nullsec rats do scram, though. Hell, they did an update a while back that added scrambling rats to all the top-tier anomalies.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#97 - 2014-07-02 18:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Canada has an airforce. See my point???

I love Canada btw !!!



I'll recap and let this go.

I want sleepers to get into systems w/ a wh upgrade. Some null sec residents want to argue about it.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-07-02 18:10:14 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Canada has an airforce. See my point???

No.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2014-07-02 18:31:45 UTC

I've been really please with most the stuff here.

I'll give it a couple days then start to get it all in 1 post and try to sort out what are attually little things, and is a few things here that while good arent small stuff (but potentially can still be looked at).

Get a few others to look it over then. post the idea's to ccp.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2014-07-02 18:49:49 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Canada has an airforce. See my point???

I love Canada btw !!!



I'll recap and let this go.

I want sleepers to get into systems w/ a wh upgrade. Some null sec residents want to argue about it.


I'm not going to let it go. You sort of missed my point in the first place, which is that the so-called upgrade isn't. Right now it essentially reads "please voluntarily install this to get access to a area of space you don't care about and in exchange more people who want to shoot you can get to your space more easily." Needless to say there is a reason why no renter has ever asked me to install one of these upgrades, ever. You're then proposing to add the line "and oh yeah, because some wormholer believes you think this is an actual benefit, this upgrade also spawns NPC interceptors all over the place, because he's too lazy to tackle people himself."

If you want the upgrade to be changed so as to be an improvement to wspace life, give nullsec system owners a reason to actually want to install it. For example, if installing one meant that (in addition to the extra wormholes themselves) my existing anomalies also occasionally spawned small sleeper patrols, other small groups appeared on gates, in belts, etc. and larger groups appeared in their own sites, all of which could escalate based on rules similar to those in existing wspace sites, that would be attractive. That would be something I could look at and go, ok, travel and regular solo pve is a risk if I install this because of the small patrols, but on the other hand those groups and the larger ones mean a few levels of group pve content, so this is worth installing in some systems.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal