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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Capital Escalations in C5/C6 space

First post
Author
Remy Nolen
Sama Guild
#1 - 2014-07-02 00:07:13 UTC
As per CCP's original intent, the extra sleeper battleships spawned were to discourage Capital use. Nowadays, that is explicitly not the case. The only reason players take Caps in is for the extra bs. This mechanic is one of the most broken PVE systems in the game. Much more so than incursions.

For the uninitiated, let me break it down for you.
C5 site = 200m in blue loot.
C5 site fully escalated = 580m isk blue loot minimum.
The system can & is almost always closed off via collapsing all the active wormholes before running it.
Due to the closed off system, PVE'rs are perfectly safe with the exception of logoff traps & someone rolling into their system.
You can farm each C5 site for 3 downtimes before it finally despawns.
A skeleton crew, 2 dreads, 2 carriers, loki, & booster can run 3 sites an hour easily in near perfect safety.
The larger corps with multiple dreads on hand can easily run each site in less than a seige cycle. Even incursions in null aren't this broken.

Changes that should be made to restore balance & order:
Reduce the melted nano ribbon chance from capital escalations to 0.
The extra battleships should be e-war immune{webs & painters specifically}
Remove Blue loot from the extra battleships.
Capital escalations trigger the entire site, all spawns immediately to prevent farming for 3 downtimes per site.
Increase the orbit range of the battleships spawned to 60-75km.
Increase the nuet pressure from the sleepers enough to takedown a capital ship.
Force open the static wormhole upon escalation.
Adding elite sleeper frigs & cruisers to the cap escalation.
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-07-02 00:11:06 UTC
Remy Nolen wrote:
As per CCP's original intent, the extra sleeper battleships spawned were to discourage Capital use.


I think you are mistaken.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#3 - 2014-07-02 00:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Is that some major class envy I hear?

I mean, besides the part where a group needs to field at least 6 people in highly expensive ships, a difficult to access system, importing all their supplies and fuel, scanning out their environment, and dealing with the very frequent isolation from normal space, forced co-operation, sudden unforeseeable ganks, potential evictions, etc, but them actually making money is horrible and in need of a nerf.


TLDR: I see you lower class dweller complaining about crews of coordinated players in high class WH's degrading the value of your farming operation salvage. Deal with it.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#4 - 2014-07-02 00:22:45 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Is that some major class envy I hear?

I mean, besides the part where a group needs to field at least 6 people in highly expensive ships, a difficult to access system, importing all their supplies and fuel, scanning out their environment, and dealing with the very frequent isolation from normal space, forced co-operation, sudden unforeseeable ganks, potential evictions, etc, but them actually making money is horrible and in need of a nerf.


TLDR: I see you lower class dweller complaining about crews of coordinated players in high class WH's degrading the value of your farming operation salvage. Deal with it.


Pain in the assage confirmed. Used to run C5 fleets, don't want to do it again. C5 sites are seriously soul crushingly boring stuff that's pretty much a single mistake away from billions in losses. If anything it needs something to make it less boring.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#5 - 2014-07-02 00:28:36 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
If anything it needs something to make it less boring.

I think the bomb diffusing aspect is what's meant to keep them interesting.
Jacid
Corvix.
#6 - 2014-07-02 00:52:26 UTC
Ohh what about when cap escalation happens wormhole opens up off the jita 4-4 undock :-D no but in all seriousness my only complaint about caps in general is how entrenched a wh can become other than that poster above is right you can easily field 15 bil in ships in very unsafe space.. risk vs reward and all that jazz
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-07-02 02:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zmikund
I feel like this post isnt about "lets do something with farming C5/C6 WH" ... every isk income will eventualy be "optimalized" by players to maximum profit ... same is with incursions, same is with missions ...

When i red this post i thought "this guy was probably never in WH, he just heard about isk they make there and he got angry because they make more than he does with his archon ratting in null" ...


Remy Nolen wrote:

Due to the closed off system, PVE'rs are perfectly safe with the exception of logoff traps & someone rolling into their system.

Thats why Quantum Explosions had 100 capital ships killed in May just in WH systems ... thats because farming there is perfectly safe ...

Remy Nolen wrote:

Changes that should be made to restore balance & order:
Reduce the melted nano ribbon chance from capital escalations to 0.
The extra battleships should be e-war immune{webs & painters specifically}
Remove Blue loot from the extra battleships.
Capital escalations trigger the entire site, all spawns immediately to prevent farming for 3 downtimes per site.
Increase the orbit range of the battleships spawned to 60-75km.
Increase the nuet pressure from the sleepers enough to takedown a capital ship.
Force open the static wormhole upon escalation.
Adding elite sleeper frigs & cruisers to the cap escalation.

I really dont know why do u want to change something that is used at minimum of its potential ... 9 from 10 C5 wormholes i get into are either empty or with 1 small pos with no activity at all ... C6 WH are more populated because they are much more rare than C5, but u can still find many almost untouched C6 WH.
... only idea of those u wrote there i like is adding frigs and cruisers to capital escalations ... that would force players to bring subcapital fleet to grid ... Multiboxers who use WH solely as isk farm would have harder job and players who live in WH would have more fun there ....

... So basically if u want somethign to be done with WH systems, I would start with adding more entertainment there, because living in WH is so boring now ... all u can do there is farming, because u can keep rolling your static for 2 hours and biggest prey u find is some sleeping retriever on belt ...
... And i dont think theese irrational nerfing of yours will bring more players to alredy almost empty wormholes, CCP should now focus on making WH systems more interresting than more worthless ....
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-07-02 06:31:19 UTC
Or we could just give some of the sleepers in the site the ability to jam ships so they need much more of a sub cap fleet to run site.

Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-07-02 06:47:21 UTC
Yeah instead of adding content to wormholes, let's take stuff away and give people even less or a reason to move to C5/C6 space...

Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#10 - 2014-07-02 09:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Kaerakh wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Is that some major class envy I hear?

I mean, besides the part where a group needs to field at least 6 people in highly expensive ships, a difficult to access system, importing all their supplies and fuel, scanning out their environment, and dealing with the very frequent isolation from normal space, forced co-operation, sudden unforeseeable ganks, potential evictions, etc, but them actually making money is horrible and in need of a nerf.


TLDR: I see you lower class dweller complaining about crews of coordinated players in high class WH's degrading the value of your farming operation salvage. Deal with it.


Pain in the assage confirmed. Used to run C5 fleets, don't want to do it again. C5 sites are seriously soul crushingly boring stuff that's pretty much a single mistake away from billions in losses. If anything it needs something to make it less boring.



Just to clarify my last post. The reason why I want sites to be less boring is because my corp, back when we were a C5 corp, was in greater danger of loosing our massive multi-billion isk fleet of spacedicks due to alt tabbing and a general lack of paying attention due to the shear boredom the activity instills in its participants.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-07-02 10:05:37 UTC
Remy Nolen wrote:

The extra battleships should be e-war immune{webs & painters specifically}


I so wish I could insult you right now... Those extra BS are in fact small dreads and can only be killed by player dreds (uless you want to shoot them for a month). How can you do that without paints and webs?

Oh I know: since capital spawn BS are like mini dreads make them siege for total e-war immunity AS WELL AS being stationary. Problem solved.

Go fly in C5/C6 than post...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#12 - 2014-07-02 15:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
corbexx wrote:
Or we could just give some of the sleepers in the site the ability to jam ships so they need much more of a sub cap fleet to run site.




If you are going to require small ships to deal with small fast jamming sleepers, please make sure that they do not become primary and one shot popped with a monstrous volley from the battleship sleepers every single time :)

Then it could be fun for those who like to fly smaller ships, without just suiciding.

It can be a good progression path for a player into higher class wormholes, and where they can play a valuable role rather than feeling they are just being supported, until they can fly a capital.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-07-02 19:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
If you make C5/6's less profitable you need to make the lower class wormholes much more profitable to make up for it and to improve activity in j-space. Otherwise you're just going to drive more people back to k-space

edit: to pre-clarify, this means c5 and c6 people will have more reason to roll into and invade lower class holes to take the sites from other people. Don't hurt the income, find a way to change the way people MAKE their income.
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#14 - 2014-07-02 22:25:28 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
If you make C5/6's less profitable you need to make the lower class wormholes much more profitable to make up for it and to improve activity in j-space. Otherwise you're just going to drive more people back to k-space

edit: to pre-clarify, this means c5 and c6 people will have more reason to roll into and invade lower class holes to take the sites from other people. Don't hurt the income, find a way to change the way people MAKE their income.


Or in reality they will move to a lower class and c5/c6 will be less populated. Its a win if you want it to look more active but in reality your just having the same poeple living in less space
Remy Nolen
Sama Guild
#15 - 2014-07-02 22:41:49 UTC
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:

Or in reality they will move to a lower class and c5/c6 will be less populated. Its a win if you want it to look more active but in reality your just having the same poeple living in less space


Not going to happen, C5/C6 farmers make 200m & 300m+ per site in blue loot w/o escalations. Full on escalations add on another 400m to the site. Going from that to the income level in C1-C4 space isn't an option. Strictly PVP only corps may jump down but they would find more action in FW, low, & npc null.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#16 - 2014-07-02 22:51:46 UTC
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
If you make C5/6's less profitable you need to make the lower class wormholes much more profitable to make up for it and to improve activity in j-space. Otherwise you're just going to drive more people back to k-space

edit: to pre-clarify, this means c5 and c6 people will have more reason to roll into and invade lower class holes to take the sites from other people. Don't hurt the income, find a way to change the way people MAKE their income.


Or in reality they will move to a lower class and c5/c6 will be less populated. Its a win if you want it to look more active but in reality your just having the same poeple living in less space


Or in reality these C5 corps are risking 10-20 billion in assets per site to earn only a fraction of that per site. The risk reward ratio is much much better in C1-4.

When put into proper context the income is rather meager.Roll
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#17 - 2014-07-02 22:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Kaerakh wrote:
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
If you make C5/6's less profitable you need to make the lower class wormholes much more profitable to make up for it and to improve activity in j-space. Otherwise you're just going to drive more people back to k-space

edit: to pre-clarify, this means c5 and c6 people will have more reason to roll into and invade lower class holes to take the sites from other people. Don't hurt the income, find a way to change the way people MAKE their income.


Or in reality they will move to a lower class and c5/c6 will be less populated. Its a win if you want it to look more active but in reality your just having the same poeple living in less space


Or in reality these C5 corps are risking 10-20 billion in assets per site to earn only a fraction of that per site. The risk reward ratio is much much better in C1-4.

When put into proper context the income is rather meager.Roll


C4 sites solo marauder + noctis alt, 3-4 sites per hour for a good pilot, 90 mil a site, 300-350 an hour, far outpaces c5 income on an individual level. Total risk.. maybe 2 bil max assets between both characters, including semi pimp marauder and weapon implants.

Very rare for people to roll into you as compared to c5 space, people rolling in are likely less competent than c5 residents, 1 minute cycle time for bastion as copared to 5 for siege.

C4 income amazing for effort as compared to c5. C4 is horribly OP, recommend higher local tanks on c4 rats and lower rates of site respawns. Source: My recent month and a half long farming op in a c4. Nerf C1-4.