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Proof that isboxer breaks the eula

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Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-07-01 13:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
(3) You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play

See screenshot http://i.imgur.com/OiDpfVR.jpg

40 skiffs mining in an ice field in hi-sec, the belt lasts no more than 30 minutes if he is there. During this time I estimate he must get 40 ice per skiff, 40 skiffs. That's 1600 blocks of ice, at 320k per block that is 500 million isk that he earns from 30 minutes of play, in hi-sec.

Not only does he earn isk far faster than would be possible for him if he wasn't using a 3rd party program to send keystrokes to the clients, but he ruins the game for normal players. I would rather mine with a few bots in the belt than this guy, they are far less detrimental to my experience.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-07-01 13:28:44 UTC
Crossposting is bad.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Lady Areola Fappington
#3 - 2014-07-01 13:28:45 UTC
That's nice. Now prove how any one of his individual characters is breaking the quoted section.

That's how CCP looks at that clause, it applies per character, and not per person behind keyboard.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2014-07-01 13:29:05 UTC
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Invalid signature format
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-07-01 13:29:19 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
That's nice. Now prove how any one of his individual characters is breaking the quoted section.

That's how CCP looks at that clause, it applies per character, and not per person behind keyboard.


Rubbish, the eula applies to the player.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-07-01 13:29:57 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
That's nice. Now prove how any one of his individual characters is breaking the quoted section.

That's how CCP looks at that clause, it applies per character, and not per person behind keyboard.


Rubbish, the eula applies to the player.


Players do not accumulate in game items - characters do.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-07-01 13:31:35 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
That's nice. Now prove how any one of his individual characters is breaking the quoted section.

That's how CCP looks at that clause, it applies per character, and not per person behind keyboard.


Rubbish, the eula applies to the player.


Players do not accumulate in game items - characters do.


What a stupid argument. Characters are owned by players, therefore players accumulate wealth.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-07-01 13:32:14 UTC
You said you had proof, but I'm not seeing any proof in that image that he's even using isboxer.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#9 - 2014-07-01 13:33:19 UTC
Try buying bottle of vodka with that wealth and you will see the difference.

Invalid signature format
Pine Marten
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-07-01 13:33:28 UTC
Revoke his permit! Or kill him if he doesnt have 1! COMON !!!11
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#11 - 2014-07-01 13:33:48 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#12 - 2014-07-01 13:34:35 UTC
ISBoxer tears. The sweet nectar of life that sustains me.

Ugh

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Lady Areola Fappington
#13 - 2014-07-01 13:34:36 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
That's nice. Now prove how any one of his individual characters is breaking the quoted section.

That's how CCP looks at that clause, it applies per character, and not per person behind keyboard.


Rubbish, the eula applies to the player.



Sadly, not in this case. CCP has said the EULA applies per character/account, and not per person.



As long as Miner A, B, C, D,.... are acting in accordance with that EULA clause, then it doesn't matter who is controlling it.


Ultimately, the final arbitrator of is and is not allowed in EVE is CCP. They've said that ISBoxer is cool to use, so...it's cool to use.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#14 - 2014-07-01 13:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nidal Fervor wrote:
new and exciting opinions that have never been posted before


He's earning the same per character as a group of players doing the same activity without ISBoxer. 500M split over 40 pilots in 30 minutes is about 25M isk per hour per character, that's hardly an accelerated rate.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-07-01 13:36:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Abrazzar wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.


They said

"the multiboxing application is not something we plan to actively police at this time"

"However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use such third party applications or other software at your own risk."

They never said it was okay, use at your own risk.
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-07-01 13:38:31 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
new and exciting opinions that have never been posted before
He's earning the same per character per hour as a group of players doing the same activity without ISBoxer. That's not at an accelerated rate.


And a bot earns the same per hour as a player doing the exact same activity, or perhaps even less. Yet botting is not allowed because it gives an unfair advantage over players who do not use botting programs.

Just as is the case with isboxer.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#17 - 2014-07-01 13:38:58 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.


Only to internet space lawyers.

Invalid signature format
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2014-07-01 13:39:13 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
40 skiffs mining in an ice field in hi-sec, the belt lasts no more than 30 minutes if he is there. During this time I estimate he must get 40 ice per skiff, 40 skiffs. That's 1600 blocks of ice, at 320k per block that is 500 million isk that he earns from 30 minutes of play, in hi-sec.

Not only does he earn isk far faster than would be possible for him if he wasn't using a 3rd party program to send keystrokes to the clients, but he ruins the game for normal players.
What makes it impossible for 40 skiffs to do the exact same thing without the software? How is it accelerated? Do non-ISboxed skiffs somehow have a different yield so that it takes them 40 minutes to do the same job?

Abrazzar wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.
They've said that there is nothing about ISBoxer (or indeed any other multiboxing software) that inherently breaks the EULA. They obviously can't allow any third-party software — not even stuff like EFT or EVEMon is “allowed” — because they have no control over what the developers put into those programs and they can't be arsed creating a vetting process.

So “not forbidden” is as good as it gets, and multiboxing fits very neatly into that category since it doesn't actually offer any automation or acceleration or any of the things the EULA forbids.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-07-01 13:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.


They said

"the multiboxing application is not something we plan to actively police at this time"

However

"However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use such third party applications or other software at your own risk."

They never said it was okay, use at your own risk.



Then why start another stupid pointless forum thread on it that will get nothing achieved? If you think something untoward is going on, petition it.

For the record, isboxer does not modify the game client, so it's not a breech of the EULA. It "copies" your keypresses/mouseclicks/etc on one window to be used on all others. It's in a grey-area in terms of botting as you (the user) are obviously clicking/etc on one client, but not across them all. Therefore it is tolerated, but not encouraged by CCP.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-07-01 13:39:29 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
See screenshot http://i.imgur.com/OiDpfVR.jpg
I just see a bunch of dudes that really like the name 'Unimatrix'.

Maybe a RL sect?

The Holy Order of the Popsicle Worshippers!

This Unimatrix dude must be they're 'leader' or 'prophet'.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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