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Rich men in EVE

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Author
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#61 - 2014-07-01 05:19:03 UTC
jack1974 wrote:
The Rich get Richer Cool

1%

Unless you are willing to share the methods, that picture was not really helpful. For all we know that might come from a renting spreadsheet or moon mining, since your alliance is in a position to do both and most of the players don't have access to that (renting out systems and extracting high-end moon materials).
Julius Rigel
#62 - 2014-07-01 05:20:19 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
I simply wonder how those guys make so much ISK ?
In my view, there are generally two sources for making money in EVE, which I break down into, let's call them "faucets" and "circulation".

As for how you would actually earn the money, it really just comes down to doing whatever it is you enjoy doing the most. Most activities in EVE can be given a spin that aims to earn money. For example:

"I like PVP" becomes "piracy - earning money by attacking, ransoming, and / or killing people".

"I like social engineering" is kind of self-explanatory, "convince people to give you access to their money, then take it".

"I like mining" is also obvious "mine ore, refine, sell minerals".

And so on.

So the key is simply to figure out how to turn what you enjoy into a profitable activity.

However, a word about those two categories: If the thing you enjoy in EVE is a faucet, something that generates resources from out of nowhere (mining generates minerals, missions generate ISK, exploration generates... whatever those things are called, PI generates PI stuff, etc.) you will be in the peculiar situation wherein the more you do that activity, the more stuff you are putting into the game, and the more stuff there is in the game, the less each piece of stuff is worth.

In practice, this is often not too much of an issue. You're just carving out your little piece of the pie, and there isn't a huge immediate problem of your product losing its value. But in some circumstances, particularly for activities that generate ISK, there is a noticable overall effect, which in economics would be described as inflation - more money gets printed, and thus each bill or coin is worth less in the grand scheme of things. In online games, this has acquired the term "MUDflation", from the days of text-based online games, as well as the related concept of "power creep".

In EVE, what happens is that there is A LOT of ISK circulating, and A LOT of players hoarding ISK, but also A LOT of players generating new ISK - missions, ratting, incursions, all these things are just pumping new ISK into the game from out of nowhere, and every day there is more ISK entering than ISK leaving, and thus, over time, the specific number of ISK required to buy something is going to go up.

What's important to note is that as more ISK enters the game, the price numbers go up, but the mission reward numbers aren't changing. So in a very small part, the activity that you are doing to earn money is actually causing your money to be worth less. So for every mission you complete, you are making your wallet worth some tiny fraction of a fraction of an ISK cent less.

Sure, not a big deal if you do 10-20 missions a day, but if 50 000 people are doing it, it starts becoming noticable from year to year. Just look at the price of Hulks in 2009 (courtesy of eve-central, via the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine). If you started mining today, you'd never think that it was possible to buy a Hulk for under 100m. But that's how I bought my Hulk back when I was a miner.

So that's faucets. As for "circulation", it's basically the opposite:

Trading, social engineering, and other activities to some extent, don't cause this inflation effect, because they don't magically generate resources out of thin air. In fact, trading has, to a small degree, the opposite effect - you give someone a sum of ISK for an item, and a percentage of that ISK disappears out of the game (the broker's fee and so on), then you sell that item to someone, and they in turn give you a sum of ISK, out of which a small percentage disappears out of the game.

So in theory you're doing the opposite of what missions runners are doing - for every ISK you spend and earn through trading, the ISK in your wallet becomes a tiny tiny little bit more unique. Your ISK becomes, by a tiny fraction, a larger portion of the pie, a bigger percent of the total sum of ISK in the game.

Well, in fact, it's still losing its value, because there are still mission runners pumping out oodles of ISK no matter how much you trade. But you're slowing down the rate of inflation by a tiny tiny portion - your ISK is become worthless a little bit slower for every ISK that disappears when you make a trade.

Now, there are many things which overlap both. For example, when you PVP, you're removing ships from the game, which is making ships more valuable, but you are adding insurance ISK into the game, which makes ISK less valuable, and you are adding salvage into the game, which makes salvage a little less valuable, and you're also burning some ammo, which makes ammo producers happy.

A little side note about trading: Much like in real-world daytrading, there is an overhead to buying low and selling high, and the market fluctuates.

In the real world, you earn money from people who aren't paying attention to their overhead and the fluctuations. Someone might think they are getting a 1% return, while in reality the buying and selling cost them 2% in fees and taxes, which means they're left with 1% less than they started with. The guy collecting the fee is the one who's earning money here. Also, if you buy something which you think will increase in price, and the price decreases, then you might freak out and try to sell it again, which means you've really bought HIGH and sold LOW.

Same thing in EVE.

All that said, the practical way to make money, in my opinion, is to just do what you love. You'll have more fun doing that, instead of trying to optimise your income per hour by doing something that isn't fun, and you'll be able to do more of it as a result.

In conclusion, these are my suggestions for making money:

1. Do something YOU ENJOY!
2. Don't spend your money!
3. Have FUN! (Yes, it's the same as 1., it's an important point!)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2014-07-01 05:27:11 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
You know full well that the true number, especially when you include escalation drops, can be, and is, far higher for an active player.

lol, escalation drops.

Escalations are very often complete ****.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Solecist Project
#64 - 2014-07-01 05:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I sit down, cross my legs ... grab the vherokior cigarette ;) ... and light it up.

I inhale ............................. hold ;) ................................ and exhale.................. (:



Hail Eris!


I know a guy ... who's pretty rich.
When he's not at work ... he likes to disco.



I know another guy ... who's pretty rich.
It's a weird coincidence, right?
He likes to disco too!


I like disco!
Oh boy I do like disco!

You got aaaalll the people crammed up in a small amount space,
and then the light comes. Oooohhh baby the light comes!
And all these colors! O:



Wow! :O


Imagine all the rich people liked to disco.
Wouldn't that be ******* hilarious? :D


I can see the light!
It's shining bright! :D




I blow a fringe out of my view ... pfff.... so annoying ........
... take a deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep one from my "cigarette" ........ and click POST.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Solitaire Project
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-07-01 05:43:46 UTC
I'll just blend in here.

White light, shining bright!

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#66 - 2014-07-01 07:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Recently I am doing more than 500M per day, not even loging in to the game. Lol
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#67 - 2014-07-01 08:06:53 UTC
Michael Ruckert wrote:
What's refreshing about EVE is unlike Care Bears in the Real World, 99% of those who play don't whine about the 1 Percenters here.


You are a ******* idiot

Thats the 1% in here I hate

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#68 - 2014-07-01 09:14:25 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
What's funny is whenever this question comes up, there's a flood of generalities which contain no real information. "Buy low, sell high." This always comes up. There may even be a race to be the first to type it. "Find a need and fill it."
It still is very valid advise. Just for the kick I started a Jita trading alt. Started trading with the 5000 Isk every capsuleer starts with. Bought some T I ammo, sold it, bought some more, etcetera. Hit the first 1 billion within two weeks, just by station trading. Mind you, I know for a fact some have hit that mark way faster than that doing exactly the same.

Lets just say that all my other characters don't have to make money any more...Blink

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#69 - 2014-07-01 09:19:54 UTC
Michael Ruckert wrote:
What's refreshing about EVE is unlike Care Bears in the Real World, 99% of those who play don't whine about the 1 Percenters here.

In the real world it's a tad harder to infiltrate their corp, steal their stuff, and awox them. In Eve, it's still CCP deciding what is legal, not the 1%.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#70 - 2014-07-01 09:25:30 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:

In the real world it's a tad harder to infiltrate their corp, steal their stuff, and awox them.


However, that would be a hell of the fun to watch Lol
Van Steiza
Whale Girth
Touched by the Tism
#71 - 2014-07-01 09:38:27 UTC
I live in wormholes, when im not pvp'ing in wh's or nullsec/lowsec I run sites.

I can solo quad cap escalate C6 sites and make 650m average per site. It takes me 2 siege cycles about 10 mins sometimes 3 to finish the site alone with a single dread and 3 escalation caps.

I can run 8 or so sites in an hour or so if im smooth. I did this today and made 6b for maybe an hour and halfs work, the thing about this is that I am putting alot of money on the field to do this and there is alot of effort and understanding of wh mechanics to do it.

It is rewarding but also risky as at any moment I could be dropped on by people who roll into me. The great thing about doing this is that I can do this once in a while and pvp all the time doing as little pve as possible.

If I was a dedicated farmer depending on the sites say I had 10 per day for a week I could pull in 6 to 7b per day with an hour to 2 hours work each day. Thats 35b in 5 days and sometimes there are 20 plus sites in my wh just to give you an idea of how I much Isk I can print.

As you can imagine pve is boring and I hate doing it lol so I do it maybe once or twice every week or 2. Wormhole life revolves around t3/capital pvp and your ship fits need to be on point this is why you often see people rolling around with 10b blap dreads in fights in wh space.

I love wh space - the rewards are great.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-07-01 09:50:36 UTC
Van Steiza wrote:
I live in wormholes, when im not pvp'ing in wh's or nullsec/lowsec I run sites.

I can solo quad cap escalate C6 sites and make 650m average per site. It takes me 2 siege cycles about 10 mins sometimes 3 to finish the site alone with a single dread and 3 escalation caps.

I can run 8 or so sites in an hour or so if im smooth. I did this today and made 6b for maybe an hour and halfs work, the thing about this is that I am putting alot of money on the field to do this and there is alot of effort and understanding of wh mechanics to do it.

It is rewarding but also risky as at any moment I could be dropped on by people who roll into me. The great thing about doing this is that I can do this once in a while and pvp all the time doing as little pve as possible.

If I was a dedicated farmer depending on the sites say I had 10 per day for a week I could pull in 6 to 7b per day with an hour to 2 hours work each day. Thats 35b in 5 days and sometimes there are 20 plus sites in my wh just to give you an idea of how I much Isk I can print.

As you can imagine pve is boring and I hate doing it lol so I do it maybe once or twice every week or 2. Wormhole life revolves around t3/capital pvp and your ship fits need to be on point this is why you often see people rolling around with 10b blap dreads in fights in wh space.

I love wh space - the rewards are great.


I've been looking around that and as you said, the main problem is that you need ISK at the start, so you can buy all the stuff you need. And you need access to a C6 WH. Which isn't my case atm.
Van Steiza
Whale Girth
Touched by the Tism
#73 - 2014-07-01 09:56:14 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Van Steiza wrote:
I live in wormholes, when im not pvp'ing in wh's or nullsec/lowsec I run sites.

I can solo quad cap escalate C6 sites and make 650m average per site. It takes me 2 siege cycles about 10 mins sometimes 3 to finish the site alone with a single dread and 3 escalation caps.

I can run 8 or so sites in an hour or so if im smooth. I did this today and made 6b for maybe an hour and halfs work, the thing about this is that I am putting alot of money on the field to do this and there is alot of effort and understanding of wh mechanics to do it.

It is rewarding but also risky as at any moment I could be dropped on by people who roll into me. The great thing about doing this is that I can do this once in a while and pvp all the time doing as little pve as possible.

If I was a dedicated farmer depending on the sites say I had 10 per day for a week I could pull in 6 to 7b per day with an hour to 2 hours work each day. Thats 35b in 5 days and sometimes there are 20 plus sites in my wh just to give you an idea of how I much Isk I can print.

As you can imagine pve is boring and I hate doing it lol so I do it maybe once or twice every week or 2. Wormhole life revolves around t3/capital pvp and your ship fits need to be on point this is why you often see people rolling around with 10b blap dreads in fights in wh space.

I love wh space - the rewards are great.


I've been looking around that and as you said, the main problem is that you need ISK at the start, so you can buy all the stuff you need. And you need access to a C6 WH. Which isn't my case atm.


I never had any access when I began, I joined as a lowly empire newb who had NO idea what wormholes was.
I was quickly baptized in fire(wh pvp) and I was involved in site running with my fellow corp members where I made more isk than I ever have. Over time I gained enough isk to fund my own chars to be able to run sites solo time to time.

If I run sites with 4 to 5 guys we can still make a few billion each in a couple hours.

When people run sites there is traditionally space for loki pilots/dread/carrier pilots etc so you are not locked out by having all the money in the beginning look at me as an example.

You just need to look around and see who is open for recruitment, wormhole space is amazing! Being able to connect to different highsecs/nullsecs/lowsecs multiple times a day is amazing I can be anywhere and nowhere at anytime!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-07-01 10:01:16 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Find the threads where Goon pubbies brag about making 200M an hour ratting.


Why don't you find these threads, since you're so sure that they actually exist. Show me the posts where goons have talked about making 200m an hour ratting with a single character.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-07-01 10:03:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
You know full well that the true number, especially when you include escalation drops, can be, and is, far higher for an active player.

lol, escalation drops.

Escalations are very often complete ****.


FSP's man. 9 times out of 10 I just get a box for my effort.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Dodi'n Icko
Trata Casa
#76 - 2014-07-01 10:27:28 UTC
As has been answered thousands of times before, and tens of times in this thread alone...

Buy low, sell high.

That is how almost all the 1% got their wealth (other than renting/moon minerals).



There are many other avenues:

- I can, and am, making ~300m a day or so doing Industry. Takes 15 mins or so a day to set up, about 4-5b or so in starting Capital, less if you wish to do half day cycles or shorter.

- Region trading. Reasonable income limited by effort and slots. Low investment, quite high time investment compared to station trading.

- PvE. Nullsec ratting is likely the easiest and fairly gank-free. Lvl 4s are okay but 40m an hour per character is pushing it. Incursions are great but again, high skill requirements for crazy numbers. 70-80m an hour (while actively in the fleet) is likely, then 0m whenever you spend hours waiting to join up.


Honestly find something you enjoy, rather than the highest numbers. There's so much you can do to make money, but a lot of them are very VERY boring.
Solecist Project
#77 - 2014-07-01 10:31:51 UTC
Wow, I made an awesome stoner post yesterday!

Don't you just love the next day,
when you start to realize that your great idea aas just batshit crazy?

Like... wow, I totally wanna move around maaan ...
... and the next day you realize you made 30 jumps in a ******* battleship!
(I didn't, but during BurnJita I stonerbought half of the catalysts in The Forge,
because it was such a brilliant idea that made so much sense! :O)



Anyhow... sorry 'bout that... until the next one. (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2014-07-01 10:42:13 UTC
Michael Ruckert wrote:
What's refreshing about EVE is unlike Care Bears in the Real World, 99% of those who play don't whine about the 1 Percenters here.


Yet the real problem with eve is that 1% of the players get to harvest 99% of the tears...

Alex Grison wrote:
Grison finance lessons anyone?



Yes, please!

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Aeo Kai
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-07-01 10:44:36 UTC


Rich men in EVE

Owe me money
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#80 - 2014-07-01 10:56:38 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Michael Ruckert wrote:
What's refreshing about EVE is unlike Care Bears in the Real World, 99% of those who play don't whine about the 1 Percenters here.


Yet the real problem with eve is that 1% of the players get to harvest 99% of the tears...

Alex Grison wrote:
Grison finance lessons anyone?



Yes, please!
I harvest love and care.
Isn't that awesome? :D

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]