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sick and tired of null bots

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#181 - 2014-06-30 03:59:33 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
How is that a straw man in any way?
It's a strawman because it's something you've invented and attributed to me rather than something I've actually said.

Quote:
Anything a bot can do , a human can do, therefore you can not attribute any specific action to a bot.
There are plenty of things bots do that players can't (or won't) — things that CCP tracks. Warping out when people appear in local and ignoring people who very obviously try to gain aggression towards you are not among them. In fact, both are very common suggestions to people who run afoul of hunters and can-flippers.

Quote:
Any doubt at all, is relative, no matter how much you try to deny it.
No, it really isn't. The logic is right there and if you want to find fault with it then please do so. Again:

B → A
H → A
A ∴ … what?

What you're describing isn't doubt — it's prejudice.


Nice ninja quoting there. You have said my argument is invalid, because the tendencies I mentioned a suspected bot doing, a human could potentially do. I say then by your argument, no one is botting, because a human is potentially doing it. You say you didn't say that.


Tell me one thing a bot can do that a human(s) can't. I'm a quiver with anticipation.


Do repeated tasks in the exact same amount of time all day every day.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#182 - 2014-06-30 04:04:08 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Tell me one thing a bot can do that a human(s) can't. I'm a quiver with anticipation.

Play continuously for days on end with perfect timing and alertness.

I'd link a set of kills of bots that were not that alert of their environment, but posting killboard links in GD is not allowed Smile


I remember a botting Nyx that was murdered by NPCs because the owner set it up wrongLol
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#183 - 2014-06-30 04:04:20 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Tippia wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Virtually none of the ratting ships are manned by humans anymore, its all automatic programming - local has a neut - warp to pos.
Because, obviously, no human would warp to a POS when neuts show up in local… Roll


not that quickly and not that consistently across multiple regions with no prior warning, no.


You probably neglect the fact that most alliances have intel channels, right? So and so was just in this system, trying to gank me, watch out. And I would think most people with half a brain would be aligned if they are afraid of combat, so when they see you in local, all they have to do is insta-warp.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#184 - 2014-06-30 04:08:00 UTC
Belt Scout wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Infinity, is that you??

*looks at Op*

I almost didn't recognize you without your trained attack dogs.

Ugh



I thought the exact same thing, because everytime Infinity made a thread requesting a change, it was for some myopic/short sighted selfish reason revolving around some difficulty in killing ships.


Ahh, sweet sweet memories of trained attack dogs riding beefed up scooters wearing wife beaters.


Yep. I remember laughing myself to tears at 4am during that beauty. Big smileBig smile


He still rages about it to this day on other forums. I wonder how his lawsuit against CCP is going.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#185 - 2014-06-30 04:08:30 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
JITAALT808 wrote:
its almost like they have an intel channel or possibly a cloaked alt watching the gate on the far side

You can have all the cloaked alts you want, but Luminous Spirit mentioned she used wormholes. Unless they are all putting an alt in the connected wormholes too, cloaked alts won't give you that intel.

Using wormholes reduces the effectiveness of intel channels too.

LS seems to have a lot of experience with this and has clearly noticed a change in something. Bots might not be the right conclusion, but there also has to be some doubt that people ratting have all wised up at the same time, though if they are watching d-scan, a combat probe is a sure sign to gtfo.


A neut in local is a sign to gtfo and "suspected from wh" is routinely posted on intel.

I always protect my pve ships first - pos is preferable due to not losing d-scan function as you do when docked. The only change is the speed of interceptors which is training nullbears to move quicker as slow bears lose ships - and superfast interceptors patrol more systems and thus bears are being trained more frequently, and to work with less intel lead time

Whs are configured as they are on the assumption the locals have mass superiority, something that can't be done in null, hence ccp not addressing local even though some devs would like to change it.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#186 - 2014-06-30 04:09:08 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But they definitely are if someone is stupid enough to drop probes on short scan.

Probes will always be on short scan at some point. They have to be in order to get the position.

4 seconds to get the warp in implies a level of discrimination first. D-scanning to isolate the general location and then repositioning the probes to obtain the final warp in point. Most people competent in the use of combat probes know to drop them and get them way off scan range first. You dont just drop them, scan a system and get the position in 4 seconds without doing it right.

Someone smart enough to be managing their safety will be able to get away in time.


a fully skilled fully implanted scanner (with an omega) will get a warp hit on anything cruiser+ within 4 AU - sometimes 8 AU - capitals from 16 AU. Not a short scan. Implants make a hell of a difference, its crazy. i run a proteus with 4 +probe str mods, its like 3 times more powerful then a regular fully rigged buzzard.

But yeah i dont mind people getting away, I just mind that bots can get away. There should be a way to gimp bots. Delayed local or something else, i dont care, im just sick and tired of seeing the same pattern again and again and again - neut in local - warp to pos - log off 10-15 min after.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#187 - 2014-06-30 04:14:00 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But they definitely are if someone is stupid enough to drop probes on short scan.

Probes will always be on short scan at some point. They have to be in order to get the position.

4 seconds to get the warp in implies a level of discrimination first. D-scanning to isolate the general location and then repositioning the probes to obtain the final warp in point. Most people competent in the use of combat probes know to drop them and get them way off scan range first. You dont just drop them, scan a system and get the position in 4 seconds without doing it right.

Someone smart enough to be managing their safety will be able to get away in time.


a fully skilled fully implanted scanner (with an omega) will get a warp hit on anything cruiser+ within 4 AU - sometimes 8 AU - capitals from 16 AU. Not a short scan. Implants make a hell of a difference, its crazy. i run a proteus with 4 +probe str mods, its like 3 times more powerful then a regular fully rigged buzzard.

But yeah i dont mind people getting away, I just mind that bots can get away. There should be a way to gimp bots. Delayed local or something else, i dont care, im just sick and tired of seeing the same pattern again and again and again - neut in local - warp to pos - log off 10-15 min after.


Battleships will warp in 8 seconds at worst and the people flying them are almost always paying attention. We are not going to wait for you to arrive on grid. Plus there is little point having a bot in null given that a high sec bot will earn you more.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#188 - 2014-06-30 04:50:42 UTC
And more safely too thanks to the Concord nuclear umbrella.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#189 - 2014-06-30 05:41:15 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
[

But yeah i dont mind people getting away, I just mind that bots can get away. There should be a way to gimp bots. Delayed local or something else, i dont care, im just sick and tired of seeing the same pattern again and again and again - neut in local - warp to pos - log off 10-15 min after.


It's not bots doing that - if the "ratting weather" is bad, I've always got a stone of Jordan to farm for my fire monk.

When I moved to vale there were 4 perma bubbled gates and it took 30 mins from jita in a covops. Takes 10 in an interceptor today, and there are no perma bubbles on the route. No dead ends near me have bubbled entrances anymore. Ie everyone accepted the need to be faster, and nobody is operating under the assumption you are stuck at the gate anymore.
Serene Repose
#190 - 2014-06-30 06:02:30 UTC
Ever consider they wouldn't be there in the first place were it not for the nearby refuge? You'd be passing through empty space? Why do people think what they "might have" gotten, but didn't is a "loss". You can't lose what you never had.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2014-06-30 06:03:16 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
There should be a way to gimp bots.

There is. Show info -> Settings button -> Report bot. If they're not botting this does nothing. If they are this will likely lead to an account ban.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#192 - 2014-06-30 06:09:56 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
I jump into system, have a warpable hit on a scorp navy issue in 4.6 seconds. Land on him in another 5-7 seconds, and he is gone.

Jump into a system, have a hit on a noctis in 5 seconds. Land in another 8, he is gone.

Jump into system, have a hit on an ishtar in 5 seconds. Land in 8-9 seconds, he is gone.

Jump into a system, get a hit on machariel in 4 seconds; land in 5-6 seconds, he is off the field.

in all cases they all warp to a renter pos.

I encounter this dozens of times every day. I have been doing my hunting for years; it is getting worse and worse. Virtually none of the ratting ships are manned by humans anymore, its all automatic programming - local has a neut - warp to pos.

I have a max skilled high-grade implanted prober alt; my tackle has warp speed mods to the hilt - and STILL the ships get away more often then not.

CCP, do something about the damn botting in null pockets. If you cant do that, introduce at least a 5 second delay to local. 5 seconds, thats not too much to ask is it??

EDIT - what is the point of combat probes if the hunter using them does not stand a chance of success? EVE is all about reasonable chance; a ratter should have a reasonable chance to escape; a hunter should have a reasonable chance to catch prey. As it is, the balance is tipped too heavily towards the ratter.


Sorry, but CCP has far more important things to do than go after bottters in null sec. Financially, it is a huge deal, since they would lose so many subs. Secondly, the CSM would scream blue murder at them. CCP is being directed to make game changes driving more people into null sec, and going after null sec botters runs counter to that.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#193 - 2014-06-30 06:42:37 UTC
2 questions Dinsdale:

1. Why do you think the CSM would scream if CCP banned botters?

2. Why would botters pay for accounts? Isn't the whole point of botting to make ISK to plex/buy other things? How does CCP lose revenue by banning them?

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Warhlak
#194 - 2014-06-30 06:43:16 UTC
This post is pointless and dont prove anything, why do you think they are bots ? they could be afk Cool.
Anyway why should i be sad to loose noctis or some mining barge while i can earn it back in 30 min of farming null sec ?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#195 - 2014-06-30 06:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Warhlak wrote:
This post is pointless and dont prove anything, why do you think they are bots ? they could be afk Cool.


AFK players actively warp away from danger. Stay tuned for more tripe, proudly brought to you by person who didn't read past the third line.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#196 - 2014-06-30 06:51:59 UTC
Warhlak wrote:
they could be afk Cool.

Are you responding in the right thread?
Warhlak
#197 - 2014-06-30 06:54:46 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Warhlak wrote:
This post is pointless and dont prove anything, why do you think they are bots ? they could be afk Cool.


AFK players actively warp away from danger. Stay tuned for more tripe, proudly brought to you by person who didn't read past the third line.



Yep they could be bot while alt tabbed and realize that someone is targeting you since you hear the sound of targetting someone and realize you'r in truble.

Possibilities are so many only blind persons like you can't see how many options could be in this case, and are whining.
Go shoot them, if you like so much.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#198 - 2014-06-30 07:00:04 UTC
Warhlak wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Warhlak wrote:
This post is pointless and dont prove anything, why do you think they are bots ? they could be afk Cool.


AFK players actively warp away from danger. Stay tuned for more tripe, proudly brought to you by person who didn't read past the third line.



Yep they could be bot while alt tabbed and realize that someone is targeting you since you hear the sound of targetting someone and realize you'r in truble.

Possibilities are so many only blind persons like you can't see how many options could be in this case, and are whining.
Go shoot them, if you like so much.


Comedy gold.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#199 - 2014-06-30 07:01:18 UTC
Warhlak wrote:
Yep they could be bot while alt tabbed and realize that someone is targeting you since you hear the sound of targetting someone and realize you'r in truble.

Nope, you definitely didn't read the OP and are clearly answering some other thread.

AFK and then responding to targetting sounds. Not part of anything LS is complaining about.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2014-06-30 07:04:58 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Financially, it is a huge deal, since they would lose so many subs.

No they really wouldn't.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Secondly, the CSM would scream blue murder at them.

No they really aren't.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP is being directed to make game changes driving more people into null sec

Advised. Not directed.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
and going after null sec botters runs counter to that.

Going after highsec botters runs counter to your first point about subscriptions. They do it anyway.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)