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Hodor!!!

#50Posted: 2014.06.28 13:34 | Report
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KnifeOrSpoon wrote:
Delicious. Spent the day on SISI taking a look around... was impressed with the changes to slots (i.e removal), build times considerably reduced (if the following figures are accurate that is).


Ballistic Control System II
Copying - 20 x max run BPC in a POS Lab = 25 days!
Invention - 1 x max run BPC in a POS Lab = 1h 45m (not that bad considering no slots)
Manufacturing - 10 x T2 BCS2 - Build time ~3 hours but I pay SCC 232,000 ISK for using my own POS module???

At first thought it was the total build cost, until I checked the Journal and yes indeed. SCC is taking my ISK to build in MY pos Assembly Array.

For giggles, threw a few more Labs on the POS to see if there was a multiplier or benefit for those of us with multiple labs. Nothing.

Same goes for Assembly Arrays and Ship Arrays... oh, 144M ISK build fee for a single run for a Raven. Ouch!

/ Delicious.


You still have to hire people to do the manufacturing, thats the reason why You have to pay even on a pos. Its not nano-manufacturing controled mentally by Your clone, its actuall manufacturing with people operation the machines.



ummm realy we have no ppl for the pi we don't have ppl for anything it is machine ran so why should there be a price on doing manufacturing in my own pos to ppl???

You have it half right.
Null sec cartels will be able to predict their production costs to a very high degree of accuracy based on strict controls of who builds, what they build, how much they build, and when, plus what teams are going to be bid on.

High sec has none of that capability. Null sec will get enormous built in production cost advantages, plus cost certainty, will which will allow null sec to dominate any production chains they choose.

Ask the cartels how many industrial centres they are building / upgrading one cyno bridge from high sec.
It will take a few months for it all to sink in, but the casual high sec industrialist in finished, and the serious high sec industrialist knows he will be left fighting for large size, low margin items only.

Are the Mountains Out Of Molehills career arc agents going to be reset this expansion for everyone who has used them?

Pure ROFL...
Right this second the sale price of a Raven in Hek trade hub is 184,994,999.90 isk
While the sale price in Amarr trade hub is 169,123,125.30 isk
Forget any thought of profit using your calculations.

To minimize the isk loss when producing your own Ravens as a small HiSec industrialists then ME has to be greater than 300. Obviously there is the point where increasing ME does not decrease the cost by 1.00 isk but that has always been greater than ME: 010. Given ME has always needed to be above ME:010 people have invested time that CCP is now taking away without compensation. The translation of ME should have been non-linear but CCP took the quick and dirty approach to the conversion. Too late for them to correct the mess they have made of the Blueprint translation.

Can someone explain me how to use the new Industry UI on Singularity ?

When I right click "Use Blueprint" nothing ever happens. And on the Industry UI itself, when I double click a BPO the industry icon turns yellow and nothing else too.

Oh and the new UI seems to be pretty damn slow when you have more than a couple of BPOs.
Also it really needs some advanced filtering modes!

"If you have been fascinated by the market and industry aspects of EVE Online but not tried this area of EVE yet, Crius is the time to jump in!"

This assumes that UI and limited slots were the main factors keeping players out of industry. While the current UI certainly isn't good, it's something that people can pick up pretty quickly. And slots only really hold back some types of jobs. The more basic types that a new player is more likely to be involved in have slots that are widely available, even close to Jita.

The main thing that's daunting about industry is trying to figure out where you can make a decent profit. That requires some research, even when using external tools.

With Crius, the introduction of non-trivial costs at every stage (copying, invention, manufacturing) as well as the variation of "dynamic pricing" is going to make it more difficult to figure out what will be profitable before sinking isk into it. The likely effect is to make industry more daunting for the uninitiated and to drive out some of the current participants, in favour of those who are set up to handle, control or anticipate the swings in production costs. Advertising it as being easier to get into is misleading. It will in fact be more opaque than ever, even if it will be pretty.

One suggestion I'd like to make for dealing with the variable job cost is to put in the ability to get job quotes from stations, so you can lock in production costs before the fact. In T2 manufacturing for example, this would let you know with certainty what the invention and copying jobs were going to cost before you fork over the isk for the copy jobs. Now, you'd need to balance job quotes. Maybe they wouldn't be free, maybe they would only be good for so long, maybe a character could only have so many at a time, etc. But at least they could provide an industrialist what they need to make a business decision on whether to produce or not.

tldr; Rant: Crius will make industry harder for new participants, not easier as stated. Suggestion: use "job quotes" to deal with unpredictable job costs.

ROFL. one can easily assume that these dev's never played or cared about industry mechanics due to the almost sheer detachment about it. perhaps they just log into the game and use their dev tools instead of grinding and working up like we do.

Nice Straw man.
The Learning Skills being removed is not the same as you choosing to over research a BPO rather than make use of it to profit during that time.

Why a lot of us are against a reimbursement is that gives you free research to invest into the new flavour of the month BPO's or long research BPO's such as Titans, giving you NEW BPO's that you have use of that you did not have use of before. And this negatively affects people who chose to diversify rather than over specialise to very little actual effect.

So yes, there is a negative effect on other players involved in Industry by giving out such free reimbursement for poor player choices, and you still have a max ME BPO so you haven't 'lost' anything. You have actually gained because your BPO probably wasn't actually perfect yet, just very close to, while now it will be utterly perfect -10%.

Another point to consider is the fact that everyone who has been researching BPOs up to ME/PE 10 (or purchased them on contract), during the past few months since CCP Greyscale's devblog came out, is going to get "perfect" BPOs, for very little investment -> an unfair advantage over both the players who previously researched over ME/PE 10 *and* the players who do research after Crius is released.

Do they "deserve" this advantage simply because they read the devblog, and knew how to exploit the upcoming changes?

And, yes, this is "the pot calling the kettle black". I've been grinding up BPOs recently, too, in order to get a pile of "perfect" BPOs. But, I still feel that the players who invested more ME/PE on those BPOs do deserve some additional consideration.