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Mobile Warp Disruptor
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Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2014-09-13 23:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kell Braugh
Rex Omnipotens wrote:
They do nothing in the way of protecting sov.

If renters were at a legitimate risk while they were doing their PvE, they would either 1) expect defensive services from their land lords, or 2) Find some other place to make their isk, removing the money boom that renting out space is currently providing and fueling the SRPs of the landlord's battle fleets and paying to the all the logistics for their capital and super capital fleets.

You are telling me that if a major sov holder lost even 30% of its monthly incoming rent it would do nothing to challenge their ability to hold the sov they have?


When the bubbles are providing protection, there is zero risk, time, effort or attention required.

The fact you mentioned 'rats' as a risk the players have to deal with while deploying bubbles goes to show how delusional you are about the true meaning of risk in the game.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#122 - 2014-09-13 23:32:58 UTC
+ 1 For Fuel needing to be required to operate a Mobile Warp Disruptor
Rex Omnipotens
Terminal Velocity Enterprises
#123 - 2014-09-14 00:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rex Omnipotens
Ha have you ever been in null sec? You seem to have a pretty deranged understanding of null sec politics.

Renters are never at risk from a situation where bubbles are the deciding factor in their defense they are however at risk from having their station hell camped or the sov they live in being flipped which is where the "landlords" step in. Thats the real risk they're undertaking, dealing with hostile gangs is a fact of life everyone has to accept when they undock so i'm not entirely sure what you're getting at when you say they need to be protected. Also if you have a quick peak at the rental agreement they're required to fill out in N3 space purty sure there's a clause that outlines their responsibilities towards general defense. They are always at risk, its not the job of the "landlord" to come and chase off every pubbie fleet that wants to blob a ratting carrier, if thats what you think then please for the sake of everyone else who shares this game with you...stay out of the null sec change thread.

As for the money aspect, you do know there was a time before these rental empires? In fact the majority of the current super cap fleets were built without a majority of the current renter income and the "logistical support" renters provide...I have yet to get 1 isk from a renter for my caps. Not in fuel. Not in minerals and certainly not liquid isk.

And yeah you caught me! silly me thinking an industrial filled with bubbles would be vulnerable to null sec gate rats. GG LOL
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2014-09-14 00:53:10 UTC
Current null sec policy is predominately about keeping the current sov holders in their space and fed with the income from renters and moons. If you were at all privy to any non-trivial alliance's balance sheet, you'd realize that simply paying the sov. bills and logisitics to run all those moon mining, jump bridge, and cyno jammer poses is paid with the rent and income from renters and moon goo.

The fact you haven't gotten isk from renters does not mean that rental income is a non-factor in the maintenance of power among the bloc of sov holders. Maybe it just further highlights your complete lack of knowledge of the finances that drive said bloc holders to 'conquer to rent' space.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
No Forks Given
#125 - 2014-09-14 01:11:31 UTC
Maybe you should consider changing your strategy?

Why not use interceptors as scouts that report back that a gate is Uber bubbled and send in an forward assualt team to kill one or two bubbles that are in line with the fleets slingshot celestial/safe/whatever so that the remainder of the fleet lands on the gate at 0. Or in the event of an inbound gate, can warp out w/o rowing.

Or is it really that hard for you to kill a couple bubbles? If so you might wanna reconsider who you are flying with.

Or form a Trollolololol fleet that goes gate to gate just killing bubbles.. lots of fun when drunk. (and it supports industry)
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-09-14 01:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kell Braugh
My own issues are a lot more specific to people using large bubbles to **** cage a gate and it's terrible affect on solo/very small gang roaming. The counter of 'go inty or T3' is a bit weak since it essentially means that they only plausible solo ship to use and really hurts the variety of possible game play avenues.

edit: About strategy, I will say this. Every time someone has evemailed/convo'd me after killing them with 'a reason why they died' if you will. It has been "I would have been fine if i wasn't afk when you jumped in." Honesty, that makes me really sad.

Sure, you could be lucky and have a rat scrambling them, or they were banging up against a 'roid or structure, but 95 times out of 100, the best chance to catch a ratter doesn't come from skill with the scanner, or ship control, it comes from the ratter being afk-- which , imo, is a pretty good sign that the 'risk' they are under during such activity is not high enough.
Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2014-09-14 01:48:10 UTC
Every time you raise the bar higher for defending space, you benefit the most organized groups. Fueling structures or even having hictor alts might be both a chore and an expense, but by BoB we will do it, and leave those who can't to dogs like you.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Rex Omnipotens
Terminal Velocity Enterprises
#128 - 2014-09-14 02:14:19 UTC
Are you talking about The botlord agreement? If so thats only between PL and goons. N3, rus,provi and hero are all left out of that, so I literally have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to it all being centered around keeping space and (inferring) stagnant. Its not some pre WW1 web of treaties and NAPs. Everyone is having small in fights with each other. No ones really interested in taking huge swaths of sov because **** tidi and week long timers. Thats the only reason for stagnation, its boring and not worth it.

As for solo/small gangs hurting, so what? there's low sec and wormholes. Plenty of ways to get around people's ebulliophobia that don't necessitate the devs looking at something they already designed and is working as intended.
Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2014-09-14 02:16:46 UTC
If you bring enough dps to hit a carrier, expect us to drop, swarm and blob. Welcome to sov null.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Arctic Estidal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2014-09-14 10:54:27 UTC
GlassCutter wrote:
No. Why don't you want to have 2 hours timer? You can still camp ships on poses with them, or setup small camp. All you need is fuel in cargo. I want to nerf ability to anchor hundreds forever lasting bubbles with zero effort.

If you never saw 100 bubbles on gate, or never experienced roaming in heavy bubbled pocket it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Anyway it is exploit, we can send petition to devs and they'll remove it, but its not the solution.

Bubbles used this way destroy content, why? Last time i checked 95% of sov 0.0 leave in peace, generating zero content for others, just making isks. WoW style playing. Most of the content in addition to wars generates small roaming groups. Unfortunately there is no reason to fight with us, you can just stay docked, smack on local and wait until we move somewhere else. Easiest way to force fight is catching some fancy isk printing machine.


I don't know what part of the 0.0 you live but it is very active with weekly gangs roaming, there is always a small winter war and a bigger summer war.

Your complaint that bubbles lasting forever are overpowered and limiting content is just not the case. For alliances/corps who want to provide some protection to activities from roaming gangs, filling up bubbles ever 2 hours would be a massive waste of time.

You are looking at this issue from only one point, that of the roaming pvp gang. What about the view from the other side, you have a $1 - 2b ratting ship and want to provide some protection and buffer. What is your solution, having to stop every 2 hours to fill up bubbles would be terrible.

CCP already have made the game tiresome in areas due to bad mechanics and you want to create yet another. Bubbles don't remove content, they both create content for both sides, the PVP gang who want to catch people and the Industrialist/Miner/Ratter who wants to undertake their activity with some buffer to getting killed every time they venture out.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#131 - 2014-09-14 11:29:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
So you want to replace bubbles with HIC alts?

HIC alts at lease have to pay a sub.

And generate shiny killmails when they afk like bubbles do.
Personally I'd be happy even with a 24 hour timer on bubbles. 2 hours feels... short. The current deployables feel too short also. But 24 hours gives you plenty of time to use it while stopping the slow accumulation that has happened in Null. Bubbles will mean someone was around in the last day and didn't want people warping. So are a sign of life then also.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2014-09-14 12:12:23 UTC
Arctic Estidal wrote:
Industrialist/Miner/Ratter who wants to undertake their activity with some buffer to getting killed every time they venture out.


That sounds an awful lot like people who want the rewards of null, but who are unwilling to appropriately prepare for the risks those rewards are balanced against.

Hell, even in highsec, a 2 billion ratting ship is at a very high risk of death, it SHOULD need an escort or contingency in null IMO.
Arctic Estidal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2014-09-16 02:47:22 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Arctic Estidal wrote:
Industrialist/Miner/Ratter who wants to undertake their activity with some buffer to getting killed every time they venture out.


That sounds an awful lot like people who want the rewards of null, but who are unwilling to appropriately prepare for the risks those rewards are balanced against.

Hell, even in highsec, a 2 billion ratting ship is at a very high risk of death, it SHOULD need an escort or contingency in null IMO.



Your point? The fact that bubbles are used by alliances and corps demonstrates they are taking appropriate action to prepare for roams.

Bubbles don't prevent PvP just check the weekly zkillboards, but removing bubbles is not the answer and you would need to explain why bubbles needs to be removed or nurfed instead of stating 'I think it should be harder to mine, rat and fly an industrial ship in null sec'.