EVE New Citizens Q&A

To my mind, the primary downside of being in a renter corp is your non-importance. Various null-sec actors view these corps as just a random group who lives there, who does not have any impact or implications on themselves nor others. They're ignored as irrelevant at worst, or treated as a place to roam for easy kills, at best.

By contrast, sov-owning entities have an interface in Eve's political game. Moreover, unlike renters, they must defend their space at risk of losing it, and they must develop it. They have to foster their FC's, and hone their organization in order to be competitive. Renters do not have these demands, so largely they don't do much of that. The need for competence is a large part of what creates competence. When it's not needed, on average competence goes down. That's just how people work.



Not really, no. In your position, I'd suggest visiting a handful of corps' recruitment channels, and make sure you're clear about what you're looking for, and what you want to avoid. After taking at least a few days to talk to them all multiple times, make a choice, and you'll probably be happy with your choice.

As an aside - someone above mentioned participation metrics. I'm in an alliance that does that. But the existence of those metrics isn't necessarily a problem for you, and what you want. Rather, it's where the alliance sets the bar. Some want people to be around more often than others, some recognize that their membership will have shifting life priorities, and even other games vying for their time. Furthermore, the corp-wide mix of very-active and less-active pilots tends to average things out, as metrics are not typically examined at the per-pilot basis. So don't be scared away by participation metrics.

I do believe you should join a sov-owning null corp. It makes for a better Eve experience.

Did you even read any of responses?

While I am still new to the game, I have tried both renting and wormholes. Both have good and bad sides. If your corporation has little assets, I would start with wormholes. Costs of setting up POS into hole and keeping it fueled is not that much compared to income you get from actively farming the wormhole. I don't have much experience from anything above C3 class, have briefly visites C4s and C5s of our allies, but C3 already provides you several hundred million daily income if you just have couple of hours a day to run the sites.

To sum the pros and cons of WH (Using C3 as example):

Pros:
-Low cost to setup.
-Relatively easily doable even with low SP.
-Good, cost effective income.
-Mining / gas harvesting good extra income.
-Good PI.

Cons:
-Anyone you meet in WH = Hostile.
-Typical hostile roams include swarm of T3s.
-No local to tell when someone enters system. You need to rely on Dscan and scouts.
-Now and then unfortunate connection to C6 WHs, from where (among other things) these before mentioned T3 swarms come from.


I am fairly new to renting from null space, although I have been flying with null groups for while now. I cannot speak for every type of renter / sov null space as there certainly are differences, but here are few things to consider.

-Moving your corporation (especially assets) to null might become quite costly deal. Depending on how many systems you rent, you should have certain reserve of isk ready in case of something failing during the transform process. The system rents range between 1 to 10bilj, more if very high demand system, but prices are often negotiable. with connections or grouping up with other corps, you can survive with far smaller corsts. I am for example paying 1 bilj for 3 systems, one of them having even station.

-Do not throw everything you have into null. Some day some big alliances are gonna clash and unfortunately your home might get steamrolled in the heat of battle. Usually such fights however take long time to progress and you have days, weeks or even months to evacuate or join the fight. Renters are often targeted first in such wars.

-If you can manage the costs of moving into null and manage to establish yourself in there, the benefits are high depending on region you are in. We're talking of billions of income per month / per character. Far more than enough to pay the rent. If rent is paid by corp tax / divided between corp members, this is same as nothing.

-You dont get as much PVP in null as you would in WH - unless this is providence (which is currenty taking some hits). Usually local groups have intel channels established, allowing you to know far ahead whenever potential hostiles approach your system. Unknowns also show up in local chat unlike in WH. If you want to do some PVP, among farming the iskies in null, I suggest you setup jump clone somewhere into low, and PVP there.

Always try different things. Eve is full of possibilities and in my opinion no career or space to live in is bad choice. Do what you like to do most. If null seems curious to you, try it, even renting.

( o _O)/

It's the same sort of thing that makes fans of crappy football clubs feel a sense of accomplishment when their team wins a game. There's a herd mentality among a lot of people and they tribalize based on their hilariously bent worldviews. In the worldview of the run-of-the-mill space-socialist grunt, the heavenly mother alliance provideth all and is master of their universe. They give it hours of their lives and do as it bids and in return they're granted a pittance of ship replacement and laggy fleet content. This is absolutely analogous to renters simply paying for access to space and substituting isk for their time and attendance in fleets, but to the line grunt that comparison is the highest insult.

Whether or not leadership deliberately cultivates this disdain doesn't really matter. People who sacrifice so much of their time to being "relavent," in the nullsec scene absolutely cannot deal with the fact that other people are accessing very similar content for much less cost by simply renting (given that there is a time value of money and sitting in a fleet formup for hours or being stuck out on a long deployment for days withou much action is essentially wasting their time and potential to make isk or otherwise enjoy the isk they have).

As you correctly pointed out, renters are by-in-large every bit as capable as their non-renting counterparts in general EVE aptitude, but because the grunts don't like the fact that renters also represent a diffirent playstyle that MIGHT even be more enjoyable TO THEMSELVES, they de-facto reject this notion and concoct all manner of weird tribal epithets and steryotypes. Renters are publords: By my understanding of SA.com, 99.99% of the players in EVE are publords. Renters are terrible at pvp: again, depending on whom you ask, almost nobody is "good at pvp." Renters are slaves to their landlords: Aye, in the same way that grunts in every null alliance are slaves to their coalition leadership. Either one bucks the party line and they're out. Power is power, whether it's bought with isk or with time spent bashing ihubs, pos, etc.

TL;DR: I think you're being much too generous here Qalix. There's not a misunderstanding. These people haven't met the "bad eggs," of the renting community. They're simply communalized parrots mouthing the nullsec establishment party line because it makes them feel better about themselves. They've wasted so much of their lives on their view of what's honorable that they're more than willing to take all your constructive feedback and ignore it, or wose, twist it into yet another lazy propagandist line.

Considering how renters are almost entirely open to new players and fresh faces as well as vet alts, it's easy to see who is going to win out in the long-run. In the symbiotic relationship between the null empires and the renters, the empire holders can make do with many fewer grunts due to supercap proliferation. So while the proud little grunt has an uncertain future, littered with orders to follow and political formalities to follow, the renter has nothing to look forward to but more space to enjoy and fellow laid-back pilots to spar with.