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[Discussion] Black Ops Repurpose

Author
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
#41 - 2014-06-26 14:15:19 UTC
I also think that the Blops needs a rebalance, but the main problem currently does not lie with the ship itself, but with the ability of warping in enemies unnoticed and unstoppable, kill a target and then warp out again before anyone can react. Just to give you an idea of things that can happen with Blops: we recently lost a Golem to a Blops gang. They had a neut sitting in our system for a while already, he opened a cyno while the Golem was busy doing a site, dropped a Redeemer and a Sin on it, bursted it away with high DPS + cap drain within less than 30 seconds and vanished back to where they came from before the first defense ships came out of warp about 2 minutes after the cyno was detected.

The problem here is not that the Blops is too strong, in fact I consider the effectiveness vs price rating on that ship to be way too low, but the ability to insta-gank anyone within jump range AND jump back out before anyone can react is what needs to be addressed and nerfed first or any boost to the Blops is going to become a huge problem. A few things I'd like to see to improve both the Blops and the hot-drop-issue:

- Lower the construction price of the Black Ops significantly. After all it is a pure PvP ship, which is weaker than any BS out there but costs 5 times as much.

- Give Black Ops the ability to covert-jump to any gate in range, so this becomes a ship that can be used outside gangs as well. Maybe with a delay high enough that this isn't that useful as a PvP escape method.

- Add a delay between decloaking (of any ship) until a cyno can be opened (I feel about 10 seconds should be fine). This is supposed to give the target at least a chance to escape or kill the cyno pilot in time. No more throw-away cyno alts that you can't do **** about please.

Other than that, some minor performance tweaks of those Blops should do it. I don't think they are overly out of line, just too expensive.
rsantos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-06-26 15:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: rsantos
OP has obviously never flown a black ops battleship or not used one extensively.

Black Ops already do something unique, Its called covert-jump bridge and jump-drive
Black Ops are fine... maybe some fitting tweaks.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#43 - 2014-06-26 16:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
rsantos wrote:
OP has obviously never flown a black ops battleship or not used one extensively.

Black Ops already do something unique, Its called covert-jump bridge and jump-drive
Black Ops are fine... maybe some fitting tweaks.

Yeah, I haven't Pirate I just wanted to trigger a discussion- I mean, look at what they did to marauders- if they do something along the lines of that for blops, then that'd be sweet( I mean, people used marauders before they changed-, and now they've been made really awesome and special). If not, making them better is always a good thing.
Alyssa Haginen
Doomheim
#44 - 2014-06-26 18:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Haginen
Black ops function fairly well but some areas could use some work. The coolest thing CCP could do is give them a slight upgrade in the hull design. Add like a portal generation arc section to each hull that sparks to generate the portal. Its hard to explain, think of a normal model of a car with no visual features. Now think of the same car upgraded with a spoiler and rims. Do something like this for blops.

Mechanics

Current features that work well.

-Cloaking setup with normal cloak
-Jump drive range



Things that could use some work.

-Needs T2 resists
-Price Maybe lower to the 700mil-800mil range.
-Balance pass for adding small changes. IMO The panther/sin need help in range and damage for the widow. Do not give the sin the overpowered sentry bonus. Instead give light, medium, and heavy drones a velocity, tracking, and falloff bonus. Redeemer could use a slight drone bay upgrade say 50m3.
-Major fuel capacity and cargo bay upgrades. Titans don't need fuel trucks and neither should blops. It would be nice to be able to store 50k-60k isos and have a 1200m3 cargo bay.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#45 - 2014-06-27 10:21:21 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
rsantos wrote:
OP has obviously never flown a black ops battleship or not used one extensively.

Black Ops already do something unique, Its called covert-jump bridge and jump-drive
Black Ops are fine... maybe some fitting tweaks.

Yeah, I haven't Pirate I just wanted to trigger a discussion- I mean, look at what they did to marauders- if they do something along the lines of that for blops, then that'd be sweet( I mean, people used marauders before they changed-, and now they've been made really awesome and special). If not, making them better is always a good thing.


In my opinion Marauder changes are rather meh. I have yet to see a rat you can tank to death. So at best the marauders are the same as they were before changes (Golem) or a bit worse off.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

rsantos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-06-27 13:42:28 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
rsantos wrote:
OP has obviously never flown a black ops battleship or not used one extensively.

Black Ops already do something unique, Its called covert-jump bridge and jump-drive
Black Ops are fine... maybe some fitting tweaks.

Yeah, I haven't Pirate I just wanted to trigger a discussion- I mean, look at what they did to marauders- if they do something along the lines of that for blops, then that'd be sweet( I mean, people used marauders before they changed-, and now they've been made really awesome and special). If not, making them better is always a good thing.


Marauders had nothing unique to them and game-play for them overlapped too much with other hulls. That is not the case with black-ops.
Vas Eldryn
#47 - 2014-06-27 23:56:23 UTC
just a quote from ccp rise recently;

CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


Black ops may see some attention soon.
Jasen Harper
The Holy Rollers
#48 - 2014-06-28 02:53:12 UTC
I would like to have a real reason to train BLOPS V for the Sin/Panther. It is just about mandatory for the Widow and pretty nice for the Redeemer but not mandatory.

If CCP can't come up with something just fix the Sin/Panther BLOPS bonus to something more useful until a better idea comes along.

Add some more CPU/PG across the board and things will definitely be looking better for the class.

The Templis Dragonaurs are an ultra-nationalist Caldari [s]terrorist[/s] organization whose origins date back to the Tikiona States. They are the most anti-Gallentean political entity in New Eden, and were secretly involved in the destruction of Nouvelle Rouvenor.

vikari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-06-28 03:21:16 UTC
Aliventi wrote:

Something-something-something (not important).

I would love to see the bridging module actually be "build into" the BlOps BS hull instead of it being a separate module. No super need for it to be.


So you're telling me there isn't a "Jump Portal Generator I" in the game meant to be fitted to titans? Holy crap CCP has screwed me over.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#50 - 2014-06-28 05:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
vikari wrote:
Aliventi wrote:

Something-something-something (not important).

I would love to see the bridging module actually be "build into" the BlOps BS hull instead of it being a separate module. No super need for it to be.


So you're telling me there isn't a "Jump Portal Generator I" in the game meant to be fitted to titans? Holy crap CCP has screwed me over.

I was talking about having the Covert Jump Portal Generator I be built into the BlOps BS. idk what that has to do with Titans. When CCP gets to Titans they could build the JPG I in too. Just add it to the material needed to build the ship. No more need to have an extra module fit.
A4443 Suicide Gank
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#51 - 2014-06-29 08:14:08 UTC
Yay, I also think, that Black ops need some love:



- remove turret bonuses and make these ships to Ewar ships (like the widow)
- Widow as a ECM ship
- Sin as a sensor damping ship
- Redeemer as a tracking distruptor ship (for neuts we have the bhaalgorn)
- Panther as a target painting ship
- increase Hp
- reduce mass
- remove algin time and speed bonus from the sin and panter and replace it to something useful
- give them full T2 resists
- Allow to fit covert ops cloaks and remove the worthless 125% bonus to cloaked speed



Theyr Combat capabillity could be replaced to a new line of T2 battleships, as a CCP character said back in 2012. (for example my proposed assault battleships)
Krops Vont
#52 - 2014-06-29 09:48:06 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
The only thing Black Ops need is a use in WH space. Solve that puzzle and you get a cookie.


Oh! oh! I got this. Allow black ops to have one role bonus/blops bonus similar to recon ships. Now you can has fancy redeemer webber/neuter. Its like a BIGGER PILGRIM Lol

--==Services==--

Propaganda/Art/Media

Wormhole Finding & Selling

o/ Play for fun

rsantos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-06-30 09:30:40 UTC
A4443 Suicide Gank wrote:
Yay, I also think, that Black ops need some love:



- remove turret bonuses and make these ships to Ewar ships (like the widow)
- Widow as a ECM ship
- Sin as a sensor damping ship
- Redeemer as a tracking distruptor ship (for neuts we have the bhaalgorn)
- Panther as a target painting ship
- increase Hp
- reduce mass
- remove algin time and speed bonus from the sin and panter and replace it to something useful
- give them full T2 resists
- Allow to fit covert ops cloaks and remove the worthless 125% bonus to cloaked speed



Theyr Combat capabillity could be replaced to a new line of T2 battleships, as a CCP character said back in 2012. (for example my proposed assault battleships)


Don't mess with my panthers please ...

Covert cloaks on battleships ... simply NO! No covert cloak makes "algin time and speed bonus" usefull ...
Ewar bonus would be nice... not the ones you picked! :P

Velicitia
XS Tech
#54 - 2014-06-30 09:54:52 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
...but the ability to insta-gank anyone within jump range AND jump back out before anyone can react is ...


exactly what "Black Ops" entails.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Velicitia
XS Tech
#55 - 2014-06-30 09:58:41 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
vikari wrote:
Aliventi wrote:

Something-something-something (not important).

I would love to see the bridging module actually be "build into" the BlOps BS hull instead of it being a separate module. No super need for it to be.


So you're telling me there isn't a "Jump Portal Generator I" in the game meant to be fitted to titans? Holy crap CCP has screwed me over.

I was talking about having the Covert Jump Portal Generator I be built into the BlOps BS. idk what that has to do with Titans. When CCP gets to Titans they could build the JPG I in too. Just add it to the material needed to build the ship. No more need to have an extra module fit.


and then CCP will nerf CPU/PG and call it balanced (there's nothing wrong with needing the module -- either I'm fitting really poorly (most likely), or those of you saying there aren't enough resources have crap skills)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

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