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Caldari needs nerfing... Again.
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Nariya Kentaya

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,916

#21 - 2014-06-25 03:31:46 UTC

Celthric Kanerian wrote:

Hello there.
This has been going on for far too long... You have to agree with me on that whenever anybody talks about the T3 cruisers, everybody suggest one using the Tengu... or when doing level 4 missions, everybody suggest using the Golem.

These missile boats have become overpowered and completely overshadow every other race ships. The same goes for Pirate factions, the Nightmare is close to useless compared to the Vindicator or the Machariel.

It seems to me that Caldari has been "owning" the universe of New Eden for quite too long.
I think one of the best examples of how overpowered the Tengu is, is by showing it with HAM missiles where it hits over the 900 dps, which can only be matched with a Battleship. A cruiser doing more damage than a BS, how pathetic is that?

Now, Amarr could live in peace with their own PVE, if the Pirate factions like Guristas and Serpentis wasn't so ridicously strong in EM and Thermal damage, and I seriously mean ridicously strong... Especially in The Assault and Dread Pirate Scarlett where it's close to impossible for Amarr battleships to break their tank without sacrificing too much of their own tank for dmg mods.
Now I could just choose not to do it... Sure, but that would create an imbalance where it's easier for Caldari to do it, making it easier for them to earn isk than everyone else.

Beside this, Caldari has always been able to keep up their dps without sacrificing tank for dps, which is also a problem that needs fixing or balancing.

I think this is a urgent problem in the world of PVE that needs adressing relatively soon. Of all the races, Amarr are the ones who has the biggest challenge in PVE. Amarr ships has to sacrifice a great deal of tank to keep up dps, unlike Caldari who got their fancy invulability modules.

Thanks in advance
Regards
Celthric

Just FYI, i killed dread pirate scarlet in a pure-tank paladin with 4 tachyons using ranged-t1 ammo. so... yeah. we dont have that much trouble. unless your just talking about the legion compared to the tengu, in that case, legion is better in pvp.

Cog Banking 16
Saelem Black Cog Banking Likes received: 16	#22 - 2014-06-25 04:32:35 UTC 3 Do not mistake "more common" for "more powerful." A large portion of the pve missioning community grew up on the formerly OP Drake. The natural progression from that is the raven, then the golem.

Viziam Amarr Empire 140
Cassius Invictus Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 140	#23 - 2014-06-25 09:22:11 UTC Alvatore DiMarco wrote: So wait.. all those times I saw people saying that the Vargur is the king of mission ships, they were actually typoing "Golem" very badly? I would not change my Paladin for any other ships. Over 100 km on scroch ammo is nuts. And you can't instapop frigates with Golem.

Maz Ngomo

Likes received: 12

#24 - 2014-06-25 09:41:58 UTC

Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

So wait.. all those times I saw people saying that the Vargur is the king of mission ships, they were actually typoing "Golem" very badly?

I was always partial to the Machariel myself tbh, though I haven't used a Vargur since the bastion introduction.

OP, ships in EVE aren't balanced around PvE and never ever should be. The Tengu is ridiculously overrated when compared to a lot of other (admittedly more skill intensive) ships much like the Drake and Raven traditionally were, though since the cruise buffs the Raven is actually pretty decent now.

If I had to rate a non-Marauder/Pirate faction 'king if PvE' nowadays I'd be tempted towards the Dominix - that ship is just so ridiculously versatile with its switchable damage types and long range with sentries, and its tank is amazing. Definitely more interesting than the generic Tengu. It draws less attention from gankers too and is far more difficult to gank than the squishy active tank Tengu. This is assuming highsec missioning however, for lowsec then the Tengu is certainly a better choice than the BS option.

The Tengu is a good ship, but in PvP most people I know that use T3s regularly tend towards Neut/HAM Legion, Proteus or tackle Loki. I honestly don't understand the case for nerfing it.

Trumpets and Bookmarks 854
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks Likes received: 854	#25 - 2014-06-25 10:10:49 UTC 5 The OP is talking utter bollox. There's no need to nerf Caldari ships. The heavy missile nerf put pay to the Tengu overshadowing the other T3s. Damage application of other Marauders is arguably better at under BS size. It's been a while since I've read something so utterly wrong in an OP. -1

Celthric Kanerian

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 853

#26 - 2014-06-25 10:22:03 UTC

Danika Princip wrote:

Have you considered going to run your silly little missions for someone else, where you can fight rats who aren't serpantis or guristas?

Caldari trades tank for utility. Webs, points, propmods, painters, damps, ECM, sebos...need I go on?

Shield and armour tanking are different animals. Please don't embarass yourself by comparing the two.

Please realise that misison balance and PVP balance are different things. Caldari missile boats, while they may be fine for misisons, are not in a good place for PVP combat. Nerfing them further is not a good idea. HMLs certainly need a buff, but I admit I've never really used HAMs, so can't really comment.

(Also, your 900 DPS tengu can be outdone by Legion and Proteus setups pretty easily. Also Brutix/Talos/Naga. And Ishtars can get pretty damn close. 900 DPS from a sub BS ship is really not that impressive.)

This... I do my missions for Ministry of Internal Order in Amarr space, where I sure hope I'd get more missions regarding Sansha and Blood than the other two factions whom tank can apparently only be problem by Marauders

Doomheim 342
Duchess Starbuckington Doomheim Likes received: 342	#27 - 2014-06-25 11:19:32 UTC I have to say I think this is a fairly calculated troll. Being so wrong in such specific and moronic ways makes me doubt it's legit. Still, impressively subtle by troll standards so points for that.

Shivanthar

Likes received: 171

#28 - 2014-06-25 11:28:01 UTC | Edited by: Shivanthar

Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

So wait.. all those times I saw people saying that the Vargur is the king of mission ships, they were actually typoing "Golem" very badly?

Yeah, one of those people is me. Clarifying that OP is not one of those. He is mistaken because in security missions, operating costs are also important. And no, Golem is not best ship from that (operating cost/efficiency) perspective. Vargur is much better in that case. Some might say Paladin, but its damage type is limited, so I would say Vargur for everyday needs, yeah.

OP is not considering all prospects of PvE combatting.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.

Bohneik Itohn

10.K

Likes received: 781

#29 - 2014-06-25 12:32:12 UTC

Maz Ngomo wrote:

The Tengu is a good ship, but in PvP most people I know that use T3s regularly tend towards Neut/HAM Legion, Proteus or tackle Loki. I honestly don't understand the case for nerfing it.

You know people who use the HAM Legion in PvP?

Guess they aren't too attached to their SP...

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?! - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Ascendance Rising Ascendance.. 160
Egravant Alduin Ascendance Rising Ascendance.. Likes received: 160	#30 - 2014-06-25 13:18:23 UTC Really people should stop posting stuff like that .I see many legions lokies and proteus except tengu.Also golem is a great ship but it has advantages and disadvantages compared to the others . Feel the wrath of the GECKO!

Auctor Illuminatas Infinitum 152
Sato Page Auctor Illuminatas Infinitum Likes received: 152	#31 - 2014-06-25 13:29:40 UTC Plus one from moi. Ain't nothing turn me on moar than a good old nerfbat spanking session. Dinsdale Pirannha for [u]CEO [/u]of [u]CCP[/u]

Empire Hooligans 53
Edwin McAlister Empire Hooligans Likes received: 53	#32 - 2014-06-25 14:29:04 UTC Cassius Invictus wrote: I would not change my Paladin for any other ships. Over 100 km on scroch ammo is nuts. And you can't instapop frigates with Golem. bull ****, have insta poped frigs many times... 2x TP + 1x Web = deaded frig

Bohneik Itohn

10.K

Likes received: 781

#33 - 2014-06-25 14:32:49 UTC

Edwin McAlister wrote:

Cassius Invictus wrote:

I would not change my Paladin for any other ships. Over 100 km on scroch ammo is nuts. And you can't instapop frigates with Golem.

bull ****, have insta poped frigs many times... 2x TP + 1x Web = deaded frig

You mean you traded tank to be able to apply more DPS in a Golem?

OH NO!

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?! - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Frostys Virpio

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,464

#34 - 2014-06-25 14:47:15 UTC

Edwin McAlister wrote:

Cassius Invictus wrote:

I would not change my Paladin for any other ships. Over 100 km on scroch ammo is nuts. And you can't instapop frigates with Golem.

bull ****, have insta poped frigs many times... 2x TP + 1x Web = deaded frig

I wish I could web as far as I can blap with guns so I can wait a few more seconds for my missile to reach the target...

Celthric Kanerian

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 853

#35 - 2014-06-25 15:47:55 UTC

The guristas/angels missions needs to be either removed from Amarr space or reduced in frequency.
it is really annoying when you get a guristas mission so you skip it and the next one is against either angels or guristas. then u have to find another agent or wait 4 hours.

Minmatar and Caldari don't have such restrictions, why should Amarr?
to make matters worse Minmatar enemies tickle u with target painters whereas Blood Raiders and Sansha use Tracking Disrupters? imbalance or wtf

Caldari enemies (Guristas) have respectable ewar though.
to be clear im not saying its impossible to do angels or guristas missions in a laser boat. it just takes forever, and It's a waste of damage to my crystals... So in the end I'm losing more isk than I'm gaining.

oh and imagine all the players with lowish skills. how the hell can they cope with those missions?

Bohneik Itohn

10.K

Likes received: 781

#36 - 2014-06-25 16:05:14 UTC

Celthric Kanerian wrote:

Why? To homogenize your PvE experience even further so that it requires even less thought?

Great idea... Just what we need. Let's nerf PvE content and make it all the same...

Fit up a 'geddon with some sentries so you can switch out your damage types if it's that big of a deal. You fly Amarr, Amarr also uses missiles and drones reasonably well.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?! - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

SurrenderMonkey

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,287

#37 - 2014-06-25 16:31:32 UTC

Celthric Kanerian wrote:

Are you aware that pretty much all T3s can achieve battleship-grade DPS? I'm assuming you're not, since you seem to think this is noteworthy.

Quote:

Now, Amarr could live in peace with their own PVE, if the Pirate factions like Guristas and Serpentis wasn't so ridicously strong in EM and Thermal damage, and I seriously mean ridicously strong... Especially in The Assault and Dread Pirate Scarlett where it's close to impossible for Amarr battleships to break their tank without sacrificing too much of their own tank for dmg mods.
Now I could just choose not to do it... Sure, but that would create an imbalance where it's easier for Caldari to do it, making it easier for them to earn isk than everyone else.

I've never had trouble in any level 4 mission, in any ship I chose to bring. Maybe you're bad?

Quote:

Beside this, Caldari has always been able to keep up their dps without sacrificing tank for dps, which is also a problem that needs fixing or balancing.

I think this is a urgent problem in the world of PVE that needs adressing relatively soon. Of all the races, Amarr are the ones who has the biggest challenge in PVE. Amarr ships has to sacrifice a great deal of tank to keep up dps, unlike Caldari who got their fancy invulability modules.

Thanks in advance
Regards
Celthric

There's no such thing as an "urgent problem in the world of PvE".

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

East Eve Trading Co 1
Margaret Croke East Eve Trading Co Likes received: 1	#38 - 2014-06-25 16:32:48 UTC 1 Celthric Kanerian wrote: Hello there. It seems to me that Caldari has been "owning" the universe of New Eden for quite too long. What private server have you been playing on?


SurrenderMonkey State Protectorate Caldari State Likes received: 3,287	#39 - 2014-06-25 16:35:06 UTC Danika Princip wrote: ...OP, are you trolling? Has anyone actually seen a caldari ship bigger than a frigate in a PVP gang lately? OP thinks PvE is important. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Void Covenant The Initiative. 78
Elusive Panda Void Covenant The Initiative. Likes received: 78	#40 - 2014-06-25 16:42:05 UTC 1 I usually recommend people to leave high-sec, stop missioning/mining and get to known low-sec and 0.0, but in your case OP, it's going to be the opposite. Please stay in high-sec and never leave, you complete inability to adapt scares the hell out of me.