Missions & Complexes

Real rocks in mining missions?? Call it mining mission salvage. Sure would love to see some Dev input on this one.

Incursions were a mistake. CCP made some bad assumptions there:

Assumption #1 was that they were dangerous enough and the AI advanced enough that 'farming' wouldn't happen and that ships would sometimes die in them. Reality #1 is that players figured them out really really quickly and while they do require some effort and organization, the truth is that Incursions turned out to be safer than other forms of pve (lots of logi on the field will do that.

Assumption #2 was that the old and already discredited "worst in high sec, better in low sec, best in null sec" balance scheme (that has never ever worked) would make them balanced. Reality #2 is that low and null incursions are useless and annoying 'content' that most of the time goes un-run for a number of reason, not the least of which is that you make more isk doing high sec incursions in shiney ships than you would in low or null using T1 or even T2 hulls, and losses in high sec are rare were as incursion fleet losses to player combat are inevitable (and nothing cost more in incursion pve than lost time, leaving aside the issue of losing the ship).


As for lvl 5s, they were never ever meant to be in high sec. it was a bug that allowed them and CCP was slow (4 years slow) about fixing that bug. CCP din't 'move' lvl 5s out of high they fixed a bug. Lvl 5s in high sec was a bad bad bad bad thing because lvl 5s (unliek incursions) are 100% soloable. i used to do them in a passive fit Rattlesnake (and yes I knew it was a bug, not my fault CCP took a long time fixing it lol).

You're always going to have the "Nerf highsec" crowd. These people feel if highsec is attractive enough it will draw people from null and low. Many of these people would like to see highsec removed or reduced to a few "training" systems.

Lowsec is only good for ganking noobs who make the mistake to roam there. If you can get a decent fleet you can gank the locals. The PVE content is going to be restricted to whoever can get a decent presence in local. The problem is if you can make that presence in lowsec you would do better in nullsec. CCP has been trying to resurrect lowsec for a while and so far failed. Moving level 5 missions there sure didn't do it.

Nullsec is where you want to be. You'll make far more ISK than in highsec and it's much safer than lowsec.

EVE needs more players like you. Fun > ISK/hr

I'd have to agree, lowsec isn't the ganking-gatecamping-blobfest people make it out to be, I've lived in WHs, Highsec and Null (for an extremely short stint) and recently (end of last year) moved to lowsec and I've found lowsec to be the most fun space of all. Sure the income is kinda crappy, but enough for me to buy pretty much anything I want for PvP and go out and lose it (obviously I don't regularly fly Pirate BS/Marauders/Capitals). The PvP is by far the most fun and sure, you die to an occasional instalock gatecamp, but once you're established in your space it's trivially easy to avoid them. L5s are a big part of lowsec life for many people (I don't run them often, but hunting down L5 missioners is really fun) and moving them to highsec to 'open up L5s to more of the playerbase' is a nerf to lowsec income which is already the worst in the game and would make lowsec even less popular than it is just so some highsec carebears can make more money than they are already making not to mention completely obliterate the LP market.

It isn't about nerfing hisec. It is about balancing risk/reward. EVE has always been about the greater the risk, the bigger the reward. Incursions have broken the risk/reward ratio, and should have been nerfed ages ago; or the lowsec and nullsec incursions should have been buffed to bring them inline. As it is, There isn't much reason to do lowsec incursions because the payout isn't that much more different from the hisec payout. Same goes for nullsec incursions.

Prove it.



Null sec 'safety' comes from player efforts (intel channels and such). Sov null pve isk making comes form upgraded systems that someone had to fight over, someone had to upgrade, someone has to pay for monthly and someone has to defend.

High Sec safety comes from magial npc space police. High sec pve isk making comes from docking up and talking to an npc, or chasing npc incursion around.

Yes, the player effort driven part of the game should be a place where you can make more isk. it's just not like that because of incursions (where a few people like the FC, LC and AAA for example do all the work while everyone else just shoots at tags and approaches gates) and missions (which pay less than anoms, but you never get interrupted and don't have to deal with that ESS crap).

It's official, high sec causes delusions. High sec should be banned for public health reasons.

Is that the best you can do? I've lived in nullsec for two years so I know this first hand. I'm sure I could spend hours looking through system killboards to show you but I'm too lazy.


Agreed that CONCORD provided a limited amount of safety in highsec. This does not protect you from people that are willing to trade their much cheaper ships for your module drops. Another danger you don't have in nullsec.. Nullsec income might not be made from talking to an agent but it's the same NPC killing and mining there. It's not like nullbears PVP for ISK.


So wait should you get more ISK because it's player driven or "risk vs reward"?
Yea if you're in a crappy part of nullsec you might get interrupted in your anoms but if you're in decent space those will be rare. Also level 4 mission ISK isn't even close to the ISK you make in anoms.



And your opinion all boils down to this...

Soooo, I ask you for proof and the best you can come up with is "I lived there" lol.

In other words, you created an opinion based on nothing, you know you can't prove it, and now you are copping out. So much for any credibility you could have claimed.



Wrong on all counts. People use cheaper ships to kill more expensive pve ships all the time in null. I lost my machariel in fountain to 2 cynabals. Unlike in high sec, no magical space police showed up to claim the cynabals lol. So again you demonstrate you don't understand what's going on in null, but act like you do.

And yes, 'nullbears' do pvp for isk. somone had to 'pvp' control of that system. someone has to 'pvp' defense of that system. Where as a hostile player either has to war dec or suicide in high sec, in null if someone wants to kill you, all they have to do is warp to you and shoot (in what is usually a cheaper ship). Hell, since most sov null combat pve is anomalies, they don't even have to scan you down to gank you, unlike in high sec mission where they do have to use probes to find you. Hell, even incursions make you go through a gate, not so anomalies.

It's why the last time CCP counted, Null had way more ship deaths than high sec despite high sec having more characters 'living' there. it's why you can go to zkillboard and the like, sort for kills that include npcs (suggesting that the victim was ratting) and you see way more of that in null than in high. Go ahead and look for yourself.

That is unless you aren't interested in the truth, which isn't an uncommon trait among the high sec only crowd.



The word you are looking for is AND.


Again both false. Go to dotlan maps, find any null region, sort by npc kills, then look for pvp kills and jumps per hour. Even in far off places like Omist and Tribute, hunters are around.

And if you don't understand that lvl4 mission is is (if you do it right) very close to (and in the case of Sisters of EVE and Thukker, both of whom have high sec agents), you haven't been paying attention. Paging Stoicfoux lol.

Banning high sec was a joke, but the truth is that it's a horribly broken and unbalanced place. In it's current incarnation it pretty much moots all other NEED for outside PVe activity except high in wormholes and faction warfare lvl 4 farming.

It wasn't always so, when i started playing , there were not incursions, FW missions were crap, no wormholes, no way to upgrade null. If you wanted good isk, you went to low (exception, high sec lvl 5 bug) or null and risked your ship for it. Now it's "X up in incursion channel with Vindicator, mach, nightmare or logi ship and wait a few minutes" or 'use cheap ship in FW', or sometimes 'learn to lvl 4 mission in high sec for the corps with the mining implants'.

Point blank, CCP made some crappy pve design decisions over the last few years and null is the place that has most suffered for it.. For example

The only danger you could point out is sever disconnect? So basically the same as running level 4's with a Marauder.

Except a rare case of bad luck or uber stupidity on the pilot you're not going to lose a JF.