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December CSM Summit

First post
Author
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#61 - 2011-12-07 16:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
"Play my way or go away, yadda yadda"



Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't want you to play my way, I just want you to set some goals for yourself. What haven't you tried yet in EvE, that you might have fun with? There are so many things to do, you've engaged in about 10% of all the activities to do in EvE. I don't care which of the 90% of other activities you choose to try, but I would try them all before declaring that this is a horrible game made by a horrible company that doesn't care about all of its players.

I hate seeing people have a sad time with video games. We're all here to have fun. That's why I'm trying to be patient and take the time to respond to your comments and see if there's anything I can do to help you get more enjoyment from EvE.

If you'd like, give me a few things you'd like to do in EvE that you might not have been able to do before - maybe you had a corporation that wasn't strong enough in PvP to teach you how to be successful. Maybe you're having a hard time getting into an Incursion fleet. Maybe you'd like to explore wormholes and fight sleepers, but are nervous about getting ganked. Would you like to tour 0.0 space and see all of the new nebulas, without being destroyed the minute you jump into nullsec because of a bubble camp? I can teach you how to avoid such things.

I will personally take some time out of my weekend to fly with and assist you in any way that I can if it means you walk away with more ways to genuinely have fun when you log in. If you need advice or a recommendation to get involved with a more active corporation, I can also do my best to hook you up with a corp that fits YOUR play style.

The only thing that no one in here including CCP can do for you is change the very type of game EvE Online is. A dogfight junkie could complain all day that there are no guns in Microsoft Flight Simulator, and declare Microsoft a bunch of sim nerds who hate on PvPers. But really, it would be best to just buy one of the Sturmovik games instead, where development is focused on that form of gameplay.

No one here wants to control your experience in EvE. We just want to help you get best matched with an activity that causes you to smile when you play. It may be here in EvE, hiding under a rock you haven't turned over, or it may just be in another game entirely. But you have to genuinely be adventurous and reach out and take some risks, or you'll never know what kind of fun there is to be had in New Eden.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#62 - 2011-12-07 21:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
"Play my way or go away, yadda yadda"



Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't want you to play my way, I just want you to set some goals for yourself. What haven't you tried yet in EvE, that you might have fun with? There are so many things to do, you've engaged in about 10% of all the activities to do in EvE. I don't care which of the 90% of other activities you choose to try, but I would try them all before declaring that this is a horrible game made by a horrible company that doesn't care about all of its players.

I hate seeing people have a sad time with video games. We're all here to have fun. That's why I'm trying to be patient and take the time to respond to your comments and see if there's anything I can do to help you get more enjoyment from EvE.

If you'd like, give me a few things you'd like to do in EvE that you might not have been able to do before - maybe you had a corporation that wasn't strong enough in PvP to teach you how to be successful. Maybe you're having a hard time getting into an Incursion fleet. Maybe you'd like to explore wormholes and fight sleepers, but are nervous about getting ganked. Would you like to tour 0.0 space and see all of the new nebulas, without being destroyed the minute you jump into nullsec because of a bubble camp? I can teach you how to avoid such things.

I will personally take some time out of my weekend to fly with and assist you in any way that I can if it means you walk away with more ways to genuinely have fun when you log in. If you need advice or a recommendation to get involved with a more active corporation, I can also do my best to hook you up with a corp that fits YOUR play style.

The only thing that no one in here including CCP can do for you is change the very type of game EvE Online is. A dogfight junkie could complain all day that there are no guns in Microsoft Flight Simulator, and declare Microsoft a bunch of sim nerds who hate on PvPers. But really, it would be best to just buy one of the Sturmovik games instead, where development is focused on that form of gameplay.

No one here wants to control your experience in EvE. We just want to help you get best matched with an activity that causes you to smile when you play. It may be here in EvE, hiding under a rock you haven't turned over, or it may just be in another game entirely. But you have to genuinely be adventurous and reach out and take some risks, or you'll never know what kind of fun there is to be had in New Eden.


The very first goal I had, with my very first character (not ishtanchuk), was to be a part of a honorable mercenary corporation that podded and made life miserable to scammers, thieves, pirates and the such. Know why?

That was because in my very first PvP encounter, the other guy apologyzed for blowing my miner cruiser and paid it back to me.

Have stopped laughing?

Yet?

Go figure. The very first time I had a close, personal encounter with a player, it turned to be a nice guy who had killed me by mistake and behaved decently afterwards. One in a thousand.

Then I joined EVE-U and it was wardecced every week.

Then I wondered why there were no more players like the one I had encountered, and why it was so bloody easy to be a useless piece of garbage and so bloody difficult to try and help others and build something nice.

Then I learned that EVE's rules are intended to mean that there is no hope, yadda yadda, and began PvEing, and my goals became things as primal and unsophisticate as fly exploration ships, get good status with every empire faction, be able to fly this or that BS with maximum skills, et cetera.

"You" ("vosotros", not "tú") can have all he grim universe of death you want, but as long as i am forced to either play EVE or don't play online hardcore freelancing SF games, I will try to get some content to keep myself amused... within reason.

BTW, I've given up so far figuring of ways that bounty hunting could work as an effective punishment for the very effective crimes in EVE. But currently it's beyond broken: it's non-existant. EVE is about how fun it is to be a piece of human excrement when the universe rules that nobody can flush crap down the toilet... Straight

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2011-12-07 21:32:24 UTC
The more you post, the more convinced I become that EVE is the wrong game for you for a myriad of reasons, and that you should probably look up other games such as X3.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#64 - 2011-12-07 21:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Lord Zim wrote:
The more you post, the more convinced I become that EVE is the wrong game for you for a myriad of reasons, and that you should probably look up other games such as X3.


I already come from there. And if EVE had a bizarro twin about bringing civilization alive rather than feast on its corpse, I would buy it.

But EVE is what there is so I just ask for some fun within EVE's concept.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Julian Koll
The Kollektive
#65 - 2011-12-08 07:07:06 UTC
As some posters before, i'd greatly appreciate if you guys could inquire what happend to the *industry expansion* that quantum rise was supposed to be.

There also used to be a thread about a S&I Interface overhaul on the old forums which i dont seem to be able to find anymore.

I know that there are most likely more important things to fix or implement, but a less mind numbing, click intensive S&I Interface is something me and others have been hoping for for years now.
Companion Qube
Positive Cashflow through Positive Thinking
#66 - 2011-12-08 07:10:35 UTC
Julian Koll wrote:
As some posters before, i'd greatly appreciate if you guys could inquire what happend to the *industry expansion* that quantum rise was supposed to be.

There also used to be a thread about a S&I Interface overhaul on the old forums which i dont seem to be able to find anymore.

I know that there are most likely more important things to fix or implement, but a less mind numbing, click intensive S&I Interface is something me and others have been hoping for for years now.

That's funny, I was under the impression that QR was only 3 years late.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#67 - 2011-12-19 16:05:31 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I know this may disappoint solo players but the reality is if you want to get the most out of a game like EvE, joining a corporation, and building strong social networks, is crucial. Content is almost exclusively designed to be done in organized groups, and will continue to be.


Please give your source for this.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#68 - 2011-12-19 20:12:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I know this may disappoint solo players but the reality is if you want to get the most out of a game like EvE, joining a corporation, and building strong social networks, is crucial. Content is almost exclusively designed to be done in organized groups, and will continue to be.


Please give your source for this.



Well first off, I should have italicized almost exclusively differently. The only real "solo" content beyond normal missions (which have barely changed in years) are the epic pirate arcs.

One could argue that scan sites are "solo content" as well, but realistically, you're much safer and more successful when you do them in groups.

As to the "continue to be" comment, I wasn't referring to anything specific or claiming to have any insider knowledge as to CCP''s development philosophy. I just meant that all the buzz about summer expansion so far points towards another Crucible - more iterations, fixing some core broken systems (Like nullsec sov and FW) and more bug fixes and balancing efforts. Nothing CCP's said so far seems to suggest any new solo PvE content along the lines of new story arcs, or additional sites at this point in time.

Overall, content always just seems to be designed to favor group play, and I don't see this changing any time soon. Even what used to be primarily solo ventures, such as PI, now involve a much more competitive / cooperative element to them. The new Tier 3 BC's are not missioning boats for solo players, they fail miserably in the absence of a well rounded fleet. Even if they don't come out and say "this is not a game for solo players" they certainly seem to design content that way.

And thats not a bad thing at all, really. Just something players should use to temper their expectations.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#69 - 2011-12-19 20:31:08 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I know this may disappoint solo players but the reality is if you want to get the most out of a game like EvE, joining a corporation, and building strong social networks, is crucial. Content is almost exclusively designed to be done in organized groups, and will continue to be.


Please give your source for this.



Well first off, I should have italicized almost exclusively differently. The only real "solo" content beyond normal missions (which have barely changed in years) are the epic pirate arcs.

One could argue that scan sites are "solo content" as well, but realistically, you're much safer and more successful when you do them in groups.

As to the "continue to be" comment, I wasn't referring to anything specific or claiming to have any insider knowledge as to CCP''s development philosophy. I just meant that all the buzz about summer expansion so far points towards another Crucible - more iterations, fixing some core broken systems (Like nullsec sov and FW) and more bug fixes and balancing efforts. Nothing CCP's said so far seems to suggest any new solo PvE content along the lines of new story arcs, or additional sites at this point in time.

Overall, content always just seems to be designed to favor group play, and I don't see this changing any time soon. Even what used to be primarily solo ventures, such as PI, now involve a much more competitive / cooperative element to them. The new Tier 3 BC's are not missioning boats for solo players, they fail miserably in the absence of a well rounded fleet. Even if they don't come out and say "this is not a game for solo players" they certainly seem to design content that way.

And thats not a bad thing at all, really. Just something players should use to temper their expectations.




Hans

I agree that ccp has been very hostile towards its subscribers who would like to experience their mmo solo. I can see you are happy about this, and thats fine.

But just because *you want* ccp to continue to make the game inhospitable to solo players doesn't mean *they will* continue to do that.

I was wondering if perhaps you may have heard from some of the csm about the fw changes in particular. As that could be something that players, who don't have allot of time to socialize in eve, might be able to participate in.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#70 - 2011-12-19 20:54:40 UTC
Julian Koll wrote:
As some posters before, i'd greatly appreciate if you guys could inquire what happend to the *industry expansion* that quantum rise was supposed to be.

There also used to be a thread about a S&I Interface overhaul on the old forums which i dont seem to be able to find anymore.

I know that there are most likely more important things to fix or implement, but a less mind numbing, click intensive S&I Interface is something me and others have been hoping for for years now.


A "Crucible" focused on industry, R&D, invention and PvE would be an amazing improvement to EVE.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#71 - 2011-12-19 20:59:52 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Hans

I agree that ccp has been very hostile towards its subscribers who would like to experience their mmo solo. I can see you are happy about this, and thats fine.

But just because *you want* ccp to continue to make the game inhospitable to solo players doesn't mean *they will* continue to do that.

I was wondering if perhaps you may have heard from some of the csm about the fw changes in particular. As that could be something that players, who don't have allot of time to socialize in eve, might be able to participate in.


Well, i'm not endorsing it one way or another. I said it was fine, not that I prefer they design their content for one crowd or another. More single player content and activities would be welcome in my book, I'm simply commenting on the trends is all.

My point was simply that those coming to a MMO (emphasis on the MM part) and expecting a full-fledged single player experience should adjust their expectations is all, there are plenty of games designed with the single player in mind.

And you're absolutely right - what I enjoy in an MMO or dont enjoy has no bearing on what CCP's intentions are, I'm not encouraging them one way or another just saying we can deduce their overall design philosophy be making some observations about the content they've released in the past.

As for specific FW updates from the CSM, I'll let you know anything I hear as soon as I hear it, They're working on the minutes so I think those will be the next time any details are released. Until then, I'm about as up to speed as anyone else here right now. I've had a busy couple of weeks at work so I haven't been in touch with them as much as I had prior to the summit.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#72 - 2011-12-19 21:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
[quote=Cearain]
My point was simply that those coming to a MMO (emphasis on the MM part) and expecting a full-fledged single player experience should adjust their expectations is all, there are plenty of games designed with the single player in mind.




You are confusing an mmo with "team play." These are not the same. You can have team play without an mmo. In fact atari had team play in the early 80s.

What people do in high sec incursions is "team play." But for the most part does not require an mmo. For the most part, they could easilly get their team of 10-30 and go play on a server against the sansha ai that was not even connected to the net. That part of their experience would not be different.

I say "for the most part" because there will very rarely be a griefer or whatever that interferes. But by and large they are just a group playing against a computer ai. They are not really engaging in an mmo.

The only time that they will effectively be able to tell they are in an mmo is when they go to sell their stuff on the market . Of course they likely do that solo and not as a team. So the only part of high sec incursions that actually requires being in an mmo is the part they do solo.

There is nothing anti-mmo about exploring the eve universe solo instead of on a tour bus.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2011-12-19 21:57:28 UTC
Stuff that's needed:

- War dec reform
- Drone compound fix (ie: fix to a bounty system)
- NPC corp abolishment
- Nullsec small-scale industry/mining buff

Kai Lomu
Cube Zombie Consortium
#74 - 2011-12-20 15:56:15 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Julian Koll wrote:
As some posters before, i'd greatly appreciate if you guys could inquire what happend to the *industry expansion* that quantum rise was supposed to be.

There also used to be a thread about a S&I Interface overhaul on the old forums which i dont seem to be able to find anymore.

I know that there are most likely more important things to fix or implement, but a less mind numbing, click intensive S&I Interface is something me and others have been hoping for for years now.


A "Crucible" focused on industry, R&D, invention and PvE would be an amazing improvement to EVE.



Yes please!!!

I cancelled my subs to EON magazine as so fed up with the huge indy expansion profiled and spelled out in the magazine which then failed to appear in game.
J Kunjeh
#75 - 2011-12-20 16:16:00 UTC
Kai Lomu wrote:

Yes please!!!

I cancelled my subs to EON magazine as so fed up with the huge indy expansion profiled and spelled out in the magazine which then failed to appear in game.


Uh, you do realize that EON is just a magazine right? It's not run by CCP and things appearing within its pages are not promises made by the Dev's. Ok, just checking...

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Taleris Kline
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2011-12-20 20:39:29 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dammit, i missed this thread... some notes:

- Hisec desperately needs endgame content
- Casual players desperately need content
- Solo players desperately need content
- any clues on wether there is future gameplay for WiS?
- Will there be any new WiS content for Summer 2012? Multiplayer, FAI?

Also would be good to know what is going to happen with the NEx store, its insane prices, and the items present as market placeholders and seeded at Sisi but not present in the TQ store.

Also there is an ongoing talk about how representative it is exactly that none of the CSM members ever comes to bore to death with us hisec dwellers, just to give a try at something that is beyond "broken" status and falls into "unexistant" status: hisec endgame, new solo content and new casual content.


Endgame? What is this mythical thing called an endgame?

We are in a sandbox. There is no end of the story. If you are asking for something to challenge your 4 billion isk officer fit pimp mobile marauder in high sec . . . . . . . bro, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

This is a place where we as citizens of New Eden get to make the story. Ask CCP for different shovels or dump trucks or different tools to play in the sandbox.

Don't just ask for bubbble gum content that is done once and is boring afterwards.

For me, the tools I'd like to see is a better way to handle information associated with the overview and an expanded exploration system that can release more small tech advances into New Eden.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#77 - 2011-12-20 20:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Taleris Kline wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dammit, i missed this thread... some notes:

- Hisec desperately needs endgame content
- Casual players desperately need content
- Solo players desperately need content
- any clues on wether there is future gameplay for WiS?
- Will there be any new WiS content for Summer 2012? Multiplayer, FAI?

Also would be good to know what is going to happen with the NEx store, its insane prices, and the items present as market placeholders and seeded at Sisi but not present in the TQ store.

Also there is an ongoing talk about how representative it is exactly that none of the CSM members ever comes to bore to death with us hisec dwellers, just to give a try at something that is beyond "broken" status and falls into "unexistant" status: hisec endgame, new solo content and new casual content.


Endgame? What is this mythical thing called an endgame?

We are in a sandbox. There is no end of the story. If you are asking for something to challenge your 4 billion isk officer fit pimp mobile marauder in high sec . . . . . . . bro, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

This is a place where we as citizens of New Eden get to make the story. Ask CCP for different shovels or dump trucks or different tools to play in the sandbox.

Don't just ask for bubbble gum content that is done once and is boring afterwards.

For me, the tools I'd like to see is a better way to handle information associated with the overview and an expanded exploration system that can release more small tech advances into New Eden.


Who's asking for a toy? I am asking for adding more sand to the hisec sandbox. Specially sand that can be used in a casual manner by players who play alone. GOALS, not toys.

FAI, let's say that CONCORD will issue contracts to shipwrights to build their ships, for a set price, untradeable and with huge requisites and an according price tag. Can you make a CONCORD BS for less than 250 millon? And 10 of them in less than a week? Not real ships, but a token called a "ship", before someone misreads and gets carried over. Or maybe build carriers for the Navies for 5 billion, whatever, something that can't be fukked out if left alone (POS, POCO...), that is not a huge money source but provides a goal for hisec players. (Industrialists in this instance).

Stuff to do, rules to do stuff. More sand. More GOALS.
Taleris Kline
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2011-12-20 21:08:53 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Taleris Kline wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dammit, i missed this thread... some notes:

- Hisec desperately needs endgame content
- Casual players desperately need content
- Solo players desperately need content
- any clues on wether there is future gameplay for WiS?
- Will there be any new WiS content for Summer 2012? Multiplayer, FAI?

Also would be good to know what is going to happen with the NEx store, its insane prices, and the items present as market placeholders and seeded at Sisi but not present in the TQ store.

Also there is an ongoing talk about how representative it is exactly that none of the CSM members ever comes to bore to death with us hisec dwellers, just to give a try at something that is beyond "broken" status and falls into "unexistant" status: hisec endgame, new solo content and new casual content.


Endgame? What is this mythical thing called an endgame?

We are in a sandbox. There is no end of the story. If you are asking for something to challenge your 4 billion isk officer fit pimp mobile marauder in high sec . . . . . . . bro, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

This is a place where we as citizens of New Eden get to make the story. Ask CCP for different shovels or dump trucks or different tools to play in the sandbox.

Don't just ask for bubbble gum content that is done once and is boring afterwards.

For me, the tools I'd like to see is a better way to handle information associated with the overview and an expanded exploration system that can release more small tech advances into New Eden.


Who's asking for a toy? I am asking for adding more sand to the hisec sandbox. Specially sand that can be used in a casual manner by players who play alone. GOALS, not toys.

FAI, let's say that CONCORD will issue contracts to shipwrights to build their ships, for a set price, untradeable and with huge requisites and an according price tag. Can you make a CONCORD BS for less than 250 millon? And 10 of them in less than a week? Not real ships, but a token called a "ship", before someone misreads and gets carried over. Or maybe build carriers for the Navies for 5 billion, whatever, something that can't be fukked out if left alone (POS, POCO...), that is not a huge money source but provides a goal for hisec players. (Industrialists in this instance).

Stuff to do, rules to do stuff. More sand. More GOALS.


The way your first post was written I assumed that you were asking for more missions in high sec. My mistake.

In general I like the base to your idea, but the problem is that CCP is trying to make it a completely player run economy (hence why PI is now used to help fuel pos's as opposed to NPC sell orders). Selling things to any of the empires/corps would put an artificial price on anything that it touches which is something that I don't think anyone really wants.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#79 - 2011-12-20 22:00:41 UTC
Taleris Kline wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Taleris Kline wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dammit, i missed this thread... some notes:

- Hisec desperately needs endgame content
- Casual players desperately need content
- Solo players desperately need content
- any clues on wether there is future gameplay for WiS?
- Will there be any new WiS content for Summer 2012? Multiplayer, FAI?

Also would be good to know what is going to happen with the NEx store, its insane prices, and the items present as market placeholders and seeded at Sisi but not present in the TQ store.

Also there is an ongoing talk about how representative it is exactly that none of the CSM members ever comes to bore to death with us hisec dwellers, just to give a try at something that is beyond "broken" status and falls into "unexistant" status: hisec endgame, new solo content and new casual content.


Endgame? What is this mythical thing called an endgame?

We are in a sandbox. There is no end of the story. If you are asking for something to challenge your 4 billion isk officer fit pimp mobile marauder in high sec . . . . . . . bro, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

This is a place where we as citizens of New Eden get to make the story. Ask CCP for different shovels or dump trucks or different tools to play in the sandbox.

Don't just ask for bubbble gum content that is done once and is boring afterwards.

For me, the tools I'd like to see is a better way to handle information associated with the overview and an expanded exploration system that can release more small tech advances into New Eden.


Who's asking for a toy? I am asking for adding more sand to the hisec sandbox. Specially sand that can be used in a casual manner by players who play alone. GOALS, not toys.

FAI, let's say that CONCORD will issue contracts to shipwrights to build their ships, for a set price, untradeable and with huge requisites and an according price tag. Can you make a CONCORD BS for less than 250 millon? And 10 of them in less than a week? Not real ships, but a token called a "ship", before someone misreads and gets carried over. Or maybe build carriers for the Navies for 5 billion, whatever, something that can't be fukked out if left alone (POS, POCO...), that is not a huge money source but provides a goal for hisec players. (Industrialists in this instance).

Stuff to do, rules to do stuff. More sand. More GOALS.


The way your first post was written I assumed that you were asking for more missions in high sec. My mistake.

In general I like the base to your idea, but the problem is that CCP is trying to make it a completely player run economy (hence why PI is now used to help fuel pos's as opposed to NPC sell orders). Selling things to any of the empires/corps would put an artificial price on anything that it touches which is something that I don't think anyone really wants.


Was just a quick suggestion. The point is that now, once you're grinding Lvl4s at 30 million per hour, there isn't anything else you can do that will pay itself (aka get a PLEX in less than a month and still have time for having fun) unless, and that's one big unless, you got either a), lots of time, or b), buddies.

That's what bugs me, I already grinded all the missions i wanted to grind (achieved the goals I wanted to achieve through grinding), and everything else either takes more time, or gives less ISK (so I should pay for it with money, not ISK so it should be very very interesting), or requires having playmates... or plain doesn't interests me at all. And what would interest me is abandoned behind a wall of silence.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#80 - 2011-12-21 17:55:22 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Was just a quick suggestion. The point is that now, once you're grinding Lvl4s at 30 million per hour, there isn't anything else you can do that will pay itself (aka get a PLEX in less than a month and still have time for having fun) unless, and that's one big unless, you got either a), lots of time, or b), buddies.

That's what bugs me, I already grinded all the missions i wanted to grind (achieved the goals I wanted to achieve through grinding), and everything else either takes more time, or gives less ISK (so I should pay for it with money, not ISK so it should be very very interesting), or requires having playmates... or plain doesn't interests me at all. And what would interest me is abandoned behind a wall of silence.


Again, this is simply untrue. There have been plenty of suggestions on how to make more isk / hour as a solo player besides highsec level 4's.

1.) Trading.
2.) Scamming.
3.) Lowsec missions - particularly FW missions - vastly more isk / hour than highsec 4's and still completely soloable.
4.) Wormholes - sleeper loot from a few soloable sites in one of the smaller wormholes can certainly exceed 30 mil an hour or more.
5.) Gas mining - some of the higher priced booster gas can be mined in lowsec, and can add up to over 30 mil an hour.
6.) Blackmail/extortion/racketeering - I personally know individuals who can extract isk from other players using nothing more than chat windows. Observation, note taking, and careful manipulation can result in BILLIONS being transferred with or without good cause - it just takes some craftiness.
7.) Nullsec anomolies - you don't need to be in an alliance to access nullsec. There are ways to get ships in and out safely, even as a solo player with a single account, and ways to travel to your stash of ships without getting caught in bubble camps.

I'm sure there are activities that I've missed, but there are plenty of ways to make isk that don't take a lot of time. Really, it should not take any more than a weekend day a month to provide a PLEX worth of isk. And that's as a solo player, with one account. All of the above with the exception of scamming and blackmail are activities I've personally done (again, solo with one account) and earned well above the 30m / hour you benchmark. I think you are limiting yourself by not considering lowsec or nullsec areas of the game.

The question again is - what will you do with your isk? Your previous posts suggest you simply collect stuff. Buy a fleet of blinged out ships that just sit there. This, of course, has its limits, as the rate at which CCP will likely release new "stuffs" into the game will be much slower than your ability to earn them. EvE just simply isn't a loot-grab sort of game, new items and ships are rolled out sparingly, because the emphasis is on allowing players to find their own ways to have fun with the stuff that's there.

If your EvE experience has turned into grinding enough level 4 missions to pay for another month of grinding level 4 missions, that's pretty unfortunate. There are faster ways to make isk, they just require some bravery and the willingness to ask for some help learning to defend yourself outside highsec. But honestly, if you don't have any ideas as to what to do with your isk, new ways to earn extra isk won't help you have more fun. CCP can't set those goals for you - or tell you what you want to spend it on. Thats a personal decision they intentionally leave to the creativity of the players.

On another note - I've been playing Star Wars: The Old Republic - a game that is chock full of the "Go here, do this" content that is spoon fed to the players. Don't expect the freedom or the consequences or the meaning to your actions that EvE gives you - but if you want to be told what to do, and have all the single player missions you want, check it out. They even give you decent NPC companions so you don't have to make real friends to get through missions!

And no, I'm not trying to kill another subscriber, I just want Fazmarai to have fun. If they're not going to be creative, adventurous, or make up their own mind as to what they want to do in a game, ST:TOR is a great choice.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary