These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

December CSM Summit

First post
Author
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#21 - 2011-11-20 19:23:39 UTC
Following this thread. This whole notifications system needs to be looked at again lol. With notifications linked to individual pilots plus all devs, CSM Twisted

Good points all.

Good luck at the summet.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Ehnea Mehk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-11-20 20:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ehnea Mehk
Seleene, thanks for setting the record straight, and for reminding Poetic about what the CSM is supposed to do.

There are some players out there who think other player's opinions do not matter. This flies in the face of what the single-shard sandbox universe is all about. Any player who pays a subscription has the right to make suggestions: no other player can ask a CSM to censor that right.

That's elitism. That's pretentiousness. Both are not welcome in my game. Maybe that should be discussed at the Summit as well.

Good luck at the December Summit.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-11-20 21:20:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
They should focus on changing the way combat works. Instead of 500 people focusing fire on one person; deciding who to shoot should be more strategic. Hundreds of people checking off the same target and seeing who can finish the list first is ******* ********. A large battle involving hundreds of ships should consist of a hundred or so smaller battles.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-11-20 21:26:37 UTC
That involves a huge change, both in how everything is structured, and how everything is processed.

Good luck getting that change through.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Tahna Rouspel
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#25 - 2011-11-21 01:23:19 UTC
I would like to know more about their plans for Player Owned Station and also if they have any intention to improve Industry.
Myxx
Incredible.
#26 - 2011-11-21 02:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
I'd third or fourth the request for the highsec/wardec/concord situation to be addressed. You're old enough of a player to understand how its all intertwined, Seleen, but for reference I wrote some stuff to take into account.

IN OTHER WORDS: Highsec is arguably too safe.
Angel Lust
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-11-21 03:00:06 UTC
So... CSM have a summit... lol... realy ? Lol

Free trip.. tea and cookies ? Cool
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-11-21 03:18:36 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Ehnea Mehk wrote:
The CSMs represent all players ...
Actually, no they don't. They represent the people who voted for them, based on the platform on which they ran. They also represent anyone who agrees with their views, even if they did not vote for them.

Unless a nuthugger carebear got voted to the CSM, you likely have no one to represent you, Ehnea.

Actually, your wrong..
Evelopedia wrote:
The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”.


So no, they represent everyone, or at least "the greatest good for the greater player base..." Which pretty thoroughly means "not just my constituents".

Also posting to say "CCP! REVIEW THE WARDEC MECHANICS!"

Keep war viable in hi-sec. For all reasons, good and bad.

For me, this also means "economic PVP". All methods of "getting to your opponent" should be valid, not just KB stats...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-11-21 07:34:55 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Ehnea Mehk wrote:
The CSMs represent all players, not just you or your corporation.
This is very true and I'm just going to say, once again, that anyone who chooses to just throw out labels (the null-sec CSM, etc..) you're robbing yourself of a potential ear to your issues. The current CSM may not seemed 'well balanced' at a glance, but look a bit deeper and you might be surprised. One advantage of a 'veteran' CSM is that most of us ran for CSM not because of a bad last year or two of decisions by CCP but because of frustrations that go all the way back to the launch of the game.

I've been playing EVE since April of 2003. I mined Omber for three weeks to get the money for a Maller BPO because that was literally the only way you could fly one - build it yourself! I've been a CEO for most of that time. Corp mining ops, running an industrial corp, building everything from Rifters to Outposts and supercaps, etc.. I created and ran Mercenary Coalition which was primarily an Empire War alliance for the first two years. I ended up working at CCP for over three years in Game Design and, let me tell you, nothing else wipes out your prejudices about "null sec" or "carebears" faster than having to actually work on various aspects of the game and really understanding how interconnected all of these elements are. Today, I'm in Pandemic Legion because I'm still an old mercenary at heart and PL is the best place for that sort of thing. Add it all up and I really don't have an opinion about NULL SEC versus HIGH SEC or all that crap. I just want the game as a whole to improve and so does the rest of the CSM.

Every CSM member could probably write a paragraph like the above. We are a lot more varied and 'deep' than the haters want to give us credit for. For all the **** everyone likes to throw at Mittens, he spends a hell of a lot of time asking other CSM members and players questions about stuff and then moves to act on it. If he's prejudiced against anything but supercaps (which I can't blame him for tbh) I haven't seen it. Trebor and Messia are impossible to label in terms of what they support because they are cynical and knowledgeable about everything. The CSM alts like Two Step and Prometheus have been invaluable when it comes to discussions with CCP about various balance issues.

My point is that even if you think you don't have someone on the CSM representing, you might very well be wrong. We're a pretty varied crew and I think the composition and experience of this CSM is a big reason why we're getting EVE Online: Crucible and not EVE: NPC Dance Challenge.

While we're talking about it, let's just be honest and admit that Crucible is the 'low hanging fruit'. This expansion is full of everything that should have already been taking place over the last 2+ years. It's great stuff and I take nothing away from the hard work being done to get it all done but it's also the 'easy' stuff in the sense that it really wasn't that hard to find things to do / fix / iterate. The hard part starts after Crucible. It's still up to us as players and the CSM to help keep CCP ummm... 'focused'.

As I've said previously, what we're looking at right now with the amount of resources that have been refocused on EVE is the potential for an 'Apocrypha' every 3-4 months. That's not bullshit, it's actually possible due to the fact that there are literally five times the number of teams working on EVE today as there were two months ago. The actual content of what is to come is certainly going to be the subject of most of the December summit. I saw a comment on Twitter a couple days ago that referred to Crucible as a 'tactical' expansion in preparation for the more 'strategic' stuff still to come. That's pretty accurate. As Mittens said, in the aftermath of the 'October War', everyone is gearing up for the inevitable 'Feature War'.

Will CCP stay the course? Based on what we've seen recently I'd say, for at least the next year, yes. What will happen over the next year is anyone's guess but, aside from the 20% stuff, morale within the office is way up primarily because folks are getting a chance to work on the things they've been banging their heads against the wall about for years. I'd say we're looking at a solid 12 months of full throttle EVE EVE EVE before CCP takes their foot off the gas. That's fine with me for now because when the people working on the game are doing stuff that they WANT to do and actually have the resources and mandate to do it on a level that's never existed before, we'll probably see EVE evolve quite a lot in the next year..
This CSM hasn't done a lot to point at with pride.

Money talks, bullshit walks: "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do" - with that big walkout and canceling accounts, the CSM went off to a summit meeting with CCP and came back sounding more like the firefighter PR branch of CCP than our advocates.

We didn't see an actual change of even statements for WEEKS and no it wasn't all a misunderstanding nor misinterpretation of CCP's stance. Those "bitter vets", that stopped playing and canceled accounts, brought about the changes. Not this CSM.

Who the hell gives a crap about wormhole ores? How many of the CSM even knew how rare those showed up or in what class WH?

What other issues? Ahh yes, the "nullsec revamp" which translates to 'bloat the wealth of nullsec and ease management..." So the wealthiest of space needs even more wealth? That's what the CSM likes for a "fix" there?

Honestly, I do like how you communicate and I think you might have some things to contribute but STOP putting yourself in the same boat as the rest of the CSM. This batch of "nullsec overlords" as a CSM needs rebalancing with the rest of EVE.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-11-21 08:09:22 UTC
Have you ever been to nullsec?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-11-21 09:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Ehnea Mehk wrote:
The CSMs represent all players ...
Actually, no they don't. They represent the people who voted for them, based on the platform on which they ran. They also represent anyone who agrees with their views, even if they did not vote for them.

Unless a nuthugger carebear got voted to the CSM, you likely have no one to represent you, Ehnea.

Actually, your wrong..
Evelopedia wrote:
The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”.


So no, they represent everyone, or at least "the greatest good for the greater player base..." Which pretty thoroughly means "not just my constituents".

Maybe you should go explain that to Mittens. What an Evelopedia page says and what the CSM members actually represent, are two different things.

I don't think there's a single CSM member who would put a single suggestion by Ehnea forward. They're ridiculously sandbox-breakingly stupid. Consensual wardecs. Holy ravioli. There's not a single CSM member who represents an idea like that. So, yeah, I stand by the statement that no one on the CSM is representing her stupidity.

Now that I've hurt her feelings, her next idea for the CSM is to suggest to CCP that they stop people from hurting other peoples feelings. S/he needs to HTFU or go play Lineage II.


Look at you and me though ... agreeing that wardecs need to return to the game.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-11-21 09:20:44 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Have you ever been to nullsec?
He's not allowed in sov null.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-11-21 09:50:38 UTC
Personally I don't see a problem with there being a tournament-style PVP option for those who want to just log on, PVP a bit, log out. Perhaps with a bit of betting on the side, or even ranks.

Only, please, for the love of god and all that is holy, don't make the tournament channels system-wide, and the default priority window. If I have to see even more WOWesque posts along the route of "DPS MAEL LFSF" or whatever it is they spew forth, I will start cutting myself to take my mind off of the pain.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Thurasi Agalder
No Bull Services Shop
#34 - 2011-11-21 11:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Thurasi Agalder
Poetic Stanziel wrote:


Actually, no they don't. They represent the people who voted for them, based on the platform on which they ran. They also represent anyone who agrees with their views, even if they did not vote for them.


But Seleene just said the CSM represents everyone in the game. And that's good. If they only represented nullheads or carebears, the game direction would change, other players would leave, and CCP takes a hit in the bank book.

If you don't like Ehnea's idea, that's your right to disagree. But you were wrong in your understanding on how the CSM works. You were also wrong to tell a CSM member not to listen to another player's suggestion.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-11-21 12:32:52 UTC
Hell, I don't see why this tournament thingy couldn't be something they also integrated into WiS, when they're done with the sucking chest wounds of FiS, so you could have people sitting in stations, just gambling, comparing stats, and just being social.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#36 - 2011-11-21 16:02:52 UTC
EvE takes a lot of time to play.

Could we get more content that is diagestable in 1-2h play periods that is fun and intresting?
(level 4's are not intresting)

Incursions are fun but require travel, Gang PvP is fun but requires long roams and most often getting blue balled.

Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-11-21 18:34:52 UTC
E man Industries wrote:
EvE takes a lot of time to play.

Could we get more content that is diagestable in 1-2h play periods that is fun and intresting?
(level 4's are not intresting)

Incursions are fun but require travel, Gang PvP is fun but requires long roams and most often getting blue balled.


Agreed... and you can't get into an incursion fleet in under an hour... then you sit about for another hour just in time to log off ... been there, given up trying, and soloing a staging system is just not economically worth it..(fun for a change now and again when mining gets too boring but otherwise no thanks.)
Raid'En
#38 - 2011-11-21 19:19:28 UTC
make sure they continue on the way they are currently, and don't go back to :fearless: and it will be a very good job
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-11-22 02:09:41 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Maybe you should go explain that to Mittens. What an Evelopedia page says and what the CSM members actually represent, are two different things.

I don't think there's a single CSM member who would put a single suggestion by Ehnea forward. They're ridiculously sandbox-breakingly stupid. Consensual wardecs. Holy ravioli. There's not a single CSM member who represents an idea like that. So, yeah, I stand by the statement that no one on the CSM is representing her stupidity.

Now that I've hurt her feelings, her next idea for the CSM is to suggest to CCP that they stop people from hurting other peoples feelings. S/he needs to HTFU or go play Lineage II.


Look at you and me though ... agreeing that wardecs need to return to the game.

Couple things here.

IMHO - as much as I like to personally twig mittens, I think he's done a reasonable job on the CSM (and, tbqh - better than I expected). I don't think he's sold anyone out (other than people who contract him cap ships for safe keeping...)

Also - I didn't mean to imply that Ehnea's ideas / proposals were going to be (or should be) advocated for, just that the CSM represents us all to CCP...

And as for the Hi-sec war-decs, I don't think I've ever specifically disagreed with you that Hi-Sec needs war-decs like oranges need sunshine. I've just disagreed with you using a *very* broad brush to tar a certain hi-sec corp with the carebear lable.

Again - CCP needs to revisit the war dec system. For the benifit of all of New Eden... Blink

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Decus Daga
Alpha Cabal
#40 - 2011-11-22 02:59:14 UTC
How about the fact that nexon is being forced on users living in japan.

Now bear with me its a bit of a ramble but....

Nexon allows users to buy nexon points, to activate accounts can be used on the power of two to generate a plex. Nexon allows nexon points to be generated via other nexon games. They allow botting in maple story, which can generate acounts, which can produce free plex.

Ontop of that Nexon has horrible support, and neither me(Australian who has to travel to japan frequently) or any of my japanese mates can see the need for nexon or infact anything of value they bring to the table.

For more info on the Nexon issues see:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26561&p=1

and for the botting/maple story this link(which was locked by a mod who thought we were discussing botting in eve... yay for mod reading the actual thread).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=27021&find=unread

- Decus