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CCP Rise, what is next?

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Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#101 - 2014-06-26 20:40:21 UTC
Since no one is really talking about Recons, I will add some fodder here.

- All the cyno bonuses need to be removed. Cyno mechanics in general suck, but whatever...that's a different thread.
- Fleet recons need to actually increase their EW effectiveness. Pilgrim needs complete rework. Falcon is baseline obviously.
- Field (or Attack) recons need to be buffed in DPS applied across the board. Keep their flimsy tanks if need be since their EW helps in this regard (at least in theory), but the DPS is anemic.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#102 - 2014-06-26 20:58:42 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
I'm in dire need of getting away from this 10 days off per year nonsense.


10 days? In Soviet... ehm, sorry... In Poland it is 26 days per year.

Invalid signature format
Jita Daytrader
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2014-06-26 21:11:08 UTC
Please give battleships an expanded role in small gang PvP, it would make things a lot more interesting if it weren't just cruiser gangs out there.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2014-06-29 14:52:42 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:


Where do I begin?

No bonuses to its primary weapons systems with a horrible mix and match of turrets and launcher slots. and given bonuses to support weapons systems.

Its a primary ship of the line for the Amarr Empire. Imagine if you will a Nimitz class carrier of having its steam catapults to launch its fighters, retrofitted to a fat man with a hand catapult made out of toilet rolls and elastic bands. That is the level of trainwreck going on here.

"Oh!" The masses cry unto the heavens "The Armageddon is now a surprise ship! People do not know what is being used!"

No, it's a malformation from the abyss that needs to be returned. Its laser powers restored and the Drone or NOS bonus removed, as it NOT Gallentean or heretical Blood Raider. It was fine the way it was, and it did not need changing to something akin to an Amarrian Skinned Typhoon, with no actual bonuses.

Drop 2 launchers (so you still have 7 total). Give the Launcher/Turret an ROF increase. Drop drone bay down to 100m³, and remove the Nos/Neut range bonuses. We have Recon ships for that job.

Send your hate mail to the usual address.

*edit* fixed math fail regarding turrets/launchers


Seems to me its primary weapon system is cap warfare, considering that's the bonus it gets. The fact that it used to be a laser boat is irrelevant, things change, adapt or die. Also the "ship of the line" argument is just laughable, as if that phrase has any meaning in this game. You act like the Scorpion hasn't been an e-war battleship for years. That's what the geddon is now, because 3 laser bonused battleships for amarr would have been pointless and uninteresting.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#105 - 2014-06-29 16:17:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


4th midslot for Munin please?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#106 - 2014-06-29 19:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
Spugg Galdon wrote:
-list of Spugg's-

Armageddon is fine. Perhaps some fitting tweaks.
- agreed

The Apocalypse is a little lackluster
- maybe some 750 more powergrid and 30 cpu

The Abaddon is just fine. (perhaps a smidge more CPU)
- agreed

The Scopion is the Scorpion. Leave it as is
- I wouldn't mind making the fith highslot a turret and or launcher hardpoint

The Raven is good but torpedos suck.
- agrred on both

The Rokh could probably move a low slot to a mid but is otherwise just fine.
- leave her as is

The Dominix has a bonus effecting all size drones. Needs to have the bonus effect large drones only.
- being a battleship, I would say leave her as is

The Megatron is perfect.
- agreed

The Hyperion is perfect.
- agreed

The Typhoon is perfect.
- I take your word for it

The Tempest is bizarre. It's a ship that has no clue as to what it is. It kind of works but I'm not sure if this ship needs to be re-invented or not.
- no opinion, since I don't fly any of them

The Maelstrom is okay. Maybe tweak its fittings a little.
- see Tempest

HAC's

Zealot is a bit slow and the Omen Navy overshadows it as an exceptional kiter
- maybe a bigger cargohold

Sacriledge is good (It's just Heavy Missiles that are slightly underpowered)
- agreed

Cerberus is good but HMLs let it down a little
- agreed

Eagle is good
- agreed

Deimos is great
- agreed

Ishtar is overpowered. Needs to lose the all drone damage / tracking / optimal bonus and get a medium specific bonus and introduction of medium sentries would help.
- maybe remove sentries from a cruiser would help

Muninn is lame. I'm not sure what it needs but it's super lame.
- see Tempest

Vagabond is good.
- see Tempest



Added some pointers to your list.

Pointing out that missiles are in dire need of improvements. Ditch just two attributes from the missile table and the 'armor reps' of the weapon systems are fine once again.

And I want my assault missle launchers back, just ditch the bonus for them from the Carcal and Cerberus, problem solved.

The rest of the ship balance can go as follows:

- ditch tech 3 from the database
- Recon rebalance
- Blackops rebalance
- ditch capital ships from the database
- ditch logistic ships from the database

There you go, EVE is fixed.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#107 - 2014-06-29 22:22:27 UTC
Logi ships probably do need to be looked at yes. They're far too effective.
Henk Brombir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-06-30 08:23:27 UTC
Blackops with Cloaked warps. kthxbye
Remy Nolen
Sama Guild
#109 - 2014-06-30 08:26:34 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


I guess that means Black ops will finally be the murder boats I desire & trained for.
Who doesn't love Falcon buffs. Twisted
Remy Nolen
Sama Guild
#110 - 2014-06-30 08:30:05 UTC
Allow the Domi to use Drone Control Units.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2014-06-30 17:56:40 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


A lot of respect guys. You perfectly spotted what was balanced not perfectly.

For HAC I would love to see Sacri get a low slot instead of high. (5 slot sacri vs 7 slot zealot....). A Caracal could use a little more fitting I guess. Didn't fly Deimos (die most) much but friends who do say it need some resculpting.

For BS I would like to see apoc (or navy apoc) get a dmg bonus in place of range or tracking. Range would make more sense as it would put it in line with navy omen, slicer etc. (so maybe navy apoc only). Current bonuses are contradicting...

Oh and maybe a potato change for a nicer hull? I'm sure gallente pilots would like it ;).

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#112 - 2014-06-30 18:06:39 UTC
Well the Domi's already getting a new model.Big smile

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2014-06-30 18:18:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Well the Domi's already getting a new model.Big smile


It does look less potatoish... but still ugly... so how about armageddon now :)?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#114 - 2014-07-14 16:23:25 UTC
Rise are getting any ship balances for the crius update?
recons would be nice

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2014-07-14 16:32:51 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).



Polish passes are great. They are probably more important than the original balancing itself.


My view.. some hacs are clearly underclassed (zealot is horrible, outclassed by most navy cruisers and hacs). Some battleships are still dumb (Tempest with 2 damage bonuses is still slower, less tanky, larger, less DPS, less drones and less damage projection than the typhoon).

Some of them are a tad overpowered (ishtar).

And on general battleships are still suffering , specially after mobility nerf (warp changes). THey could very well ALL gain a little bit more EHP as a compensation)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#116 - 2014-07-17 03:00:47 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).



Out in the Wild? Is that some sort of super secret hint that my ravens will become pvp powerhouses!!!!???? lol
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2014-07-17 08:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Erutpar Ambient
What i would like to see from a Battleship re-do....
I want to see each race get 1 BS with damage bonuses, 1 BS with tanking bonuses and one BS with high utility.
I would like to see the damage bonuses be all turret based. I would like to see the Tanking and utility ships to have full turret and missile hard points. Missiles and drones would then be Utility weapon systems usable by everyone (just like would make sense since missiles are generally a prereq technology to space travel and each race has their own type of drone).

Utility would be as follows and pretty obvious anyways:
Gal: Drones
Cal: ECM
Amarr: Neut
Min: Speed (maybe prop/mjd bonuses in lue of damage/tank?)

Then Faction Navy Ships could have dual bonuses damage/tank utility/tank damage/utility. And pirates wouldn't really need any changing.

Then all the battleships would have lots of versatility while also having their intended roles. And you're not limited to race specific weapon systems so you'd have a lot of customization and ease to cross training ships.

Also bring back 8 hardpoint high slot ships, especially for the Hyperion (looks horrible the way it is now).
Also that Raven shooting lasers down on Dusties in that one Image could then be seen as a railgun Raven instead. ;)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2014-07-17 10:43:06 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
What i would like to see from a Battleship re-do....
I want to see each race get 1 BS with damage bonuses, 1 BS with tanking bonuses and one BS with high utility.
I would like to see the damage bonuses be all turret based. I would like to see the Tanking and utility ships to have full turret and missile hard points. Missiles and drones would then be Utility weapon systems usable by everyone (just like would make sense since missiles are generally a prereq technology to space travel and each race has their own type of drone).

Utility would be as follows and pretty obvious anyways:
Gal: Drones
Cal: ECM
Amarr: Neut
Min: Speed (maybe prop/mjd bonuses in lue of damage/tank?)

Then Faction Navy Ships could have dual bonuses damage/tank utility/tank damage/utility. And pirates wouldn't really need any changing.

Then all the battleships would have lots of versatility while also having their intended roles. And you're not limited to race specific weapon systems so you'd have a lot of customization and ease to cross training ships.

Also bring back 8 hardpoint high slot ships, especially for the Hyperion (looks horrible the way it is now).
Also that Raven shooting lasers down on Dusties in that one Image could then be seen as a railgun Raven instead. ;)



The utility ones you say are already there.


Main problem with battleships is that some of them have no usability. Why would anyone in hell use a tempest? If you can fit a typhoon with neuts 5 launchers and do more dps, be faster, be smaller , be more agile, have better damage projection and have the same 2 neuts (Taht btw are much less relevant now, since anyone that wants to bring neuts bring geddons or domis). WHY in hell would anyone chose a ship that wastes 2 bonuses to damage and result in havign LESS dps than ANY of the battleships except the ones with no damage bonuses at all (scorpion and apoc) ?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
twit brent
Never Not AFK
#119 - 2014-07-18 20:08:28 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).



Aren't your forgetting the Rorqual? and maybe mining in general.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#120 - 2014-07-18 20:44:28 UTC
Just a suggestion and request for the Cerberus, While it does very well against frigates with RLML, it is a bit of a one trick pony.
Such a let down with HML.

Could you please do something, to make those more useful, It really is such a shame that, it is just missing so much being shoehorned into a single role , that doesn't take full advantage of the overall ship.

I am not suggesting making it into an even more effective frigate killer, but could you at least dial the damage up a touch, or make it a bit more effective at applying damage to cruisers with HML?
Nothing Crazy, just allow it a wider range of application.
Thanks.

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