These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP Rise, what is next?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-06-23 18:25:29 UTC
Rebalancing of HACs and BS's eh?

Well, lets see. I fully expect that the Ishtard and the Dominix to receive nerfs in the form of "Sized Drone" specific bonuses. This is probably required as the Ishtard is stupidly overpowered. I am also expecting the introduction of medium and perhaps small sentry drones, although I'm not holding my breath.

What else......

Well the, the BATTLESHIPS:

Armageddon is fine. Perhaps some fitting tweaks.

The Apocalypse is a little lackluster

The Abaddon is just fine. (perhaps a smidge more CPU)

The Scopion is the Scorpion. Leave it as is

The Raven is good but torpedos suck.

The Rokh could probably move a low slot to a mid but is otherwise just fine.

The Dominix has a bonus effecting all size drones. Needs to have the bonus effect large drones only.

The Megatron is perfect.

The Hyperion is perfect.

The Typhoon is perfect.

The Tempest is bizarre. It's a ship that has no clue as to what it is. It kind of works but I'm not sure if this ship needs to be re-invented or not.

The Maelstrom is okay. Maybe tweak its fittings a little.


HAC's

Zealot is a bit slow and the Omen Navy overshadows it as an exceptional kiter

Sacriledge is good (It's just Heavy Missiles that are slightly underpowered)

Cerberus is good but HMLs let it down a little

Eagle is good

Deimos is great

Ishtar is overpowered. Needs to lose the all drone damage / tracking / optimal bonus and get a medium specific bonus and introduction of medium sentries would help.

Muninn is lame. I'm not sure what it needs but it's super lame.

Vagabond is good.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2014-06-23 18:28:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).

These four items sound great to me.

T3's and capitals are easily the most complicated things to balance so leaving them to their own separate releases where no other ships are touched makes sense.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#63 - 2014-06-23 18:37:31 UTC
Thanks for stopping by Rise...looking forward to the Recon pass; have been for years now actually.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Lord Fudo
Doomheim
#64 - 2014-06-23 18:48:12 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


Covert Ops Cloaks for Black Ops please....
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#65 - 2014-06-23 18:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
vaga needs a slight speed nerf with some HP back in return ... the stabber needs too be faster than it... stabber could use another turret mind you ..

eagle .. needs some speed and some drones .. a blaster eagle should then be possible .. also new model is great and has dronebay would be nice if the eagle was worth flying outside of rail - logi fleets..

we need missile rebalance ... HAMS still have the same range as Torps .. not cool btw .. cerb dps seems a little high ..
have you seen 700 dps rage cerbs .. the range to dps ratio is out of whack..

Maelstrom is still odd ... should be fast like hype with active tank etc.. maybe drop a high for a low ....
tempest could use a little buff .. more dps and mobility/smaller sig ... should be smaller and more mobile than phoon..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kibitt Kallinikov
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#66 - 2014-06-23 19:17:01 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:

HAC's

Zealot is a bit slow and the Omen Navy overshadows it as an exceptional kiter

Sacriledge is good (It's just Heavy Missiles that are slightly underpowered)

Cerberus is good but HMLs let it down a little

Eagle is good

Deimos is great

Ishtar is overpowered. Needs to lose the all drone damage / tracking / optimal bonus and get a medium specific bonus and introduction of medium sentries would help.

Muninn is lame. I'm not sure what it needs but it's super lame.

Vagabond is good.



RLML Cerberus is an absolute monster in quite a number of situations (73km range with FURY? Yes please) but obviously it won't shine against larger ships and HML is a better option at that point.

Eagle is impossibly slow, even with the speed buff that it got. You can slap a 1600mm plate and triple trimark onto some armor cruisers to get similar speed. It feels like there's less variation in how it can be flown because of this, but I'm not sure how important some extra speed would be in the super sniper fleets that already go around.

Best way to nerf Ishtar without changing much would be something like lower CPU so it can't fit as many drone mods while having fast nano shield tank and whatnot with 0 sacrifices.

Arty Muninn is legit, I have no idea what you're talking about...

Vagabond has mostly been shoved towards brawling with the Tracking Enhancer nerfs, where it has inferior tank and DPS when compared to other brawling HACs that can also fit a web while doing so. However, I'm certain that an artillery fit could work quite well (kiss goodbye to rig slots, you'll use those for PG) but no one really wanted to try such a thing in the past because the Cynabal had so much more PG than the Vagabond that it wasn't really worth mentioning.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#67 - 2014-06-23 19:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


This is very good.

Battleships that need help:

Rokh (improve base stats, look at range bonus)
Abaddon (Improve capacitor, swap mid for low)
Scorpion (Look at giving damage bonus)
Tempest (Slot allocation)

Heavy assault cruisers that need help

Muninn (Slot allocation and maybe bonuses)
Zealot (Needs drones)
Ishtar (power projection too strong)
Vagabond (role and slot allocation)
Justin Cody
War Firm
#68 - 2014-06-23 19:33:24 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Rebalancing of HACs and BS's eh?

Well, lets see. I fully expect that the Ishtard and the Dominix to receive nerfs in the form of "Sized Drone" specific bonuses. This is probably required as the Ishtard is stupidly overpowered. I am also expecting the introduction of medium and perhaps small sentry drones, although I'm not holding my breath.

What else......

Well the, the BATTLESHIPS:

Armageddon is fine. Perhaps some fitting tweaks.

The Apocalypse is a little lackluster

The Abaddon is just fine. (perhaps a smidge more CPU)

The Scopion is the Scorpion. ECM itself as a system is a problem and needs a long close and hard look. If the cycle jam scorp was brought back it would see more use but we'd have the same whining. The Scorpion is supposed to be an answer to the dominix but it really isn't...since drones have to be ewar'd separately from the hull deploying them. Make it faster and more agile.

The Raven is good but torpedos need more range and better damage application

The Rokh is otherwise just fine.

The Dominix needs to have its high slots nerfed in to the ground (4 tops)

The Megatron is perfect. [it is not a transformer...it is spelled M-E-G-A...watch this closely...T-H-R-O-N

The Hyperion needs more speed or agility [why not both?]

The Typhoon is perfect.

The Tempest is for brilliant solo pilots who know how to use all of its bonuses. It is however currently lackluster for sov fleets as it lacks durability, manueverability and is a battleship.

The Maelstrom is okay. Maybe tweak its fittings a little.


HAC's

Zealot is a bit slow and the Omen Navy overshadows it as an exceptional kiter

Sacrilege is good (It's just Heavy Missiles that are slightly under-powered)

Cerberus is good but HMLs let it down a little

Eagle is terrible - it does not enough damage with rails or with blasters, it is slow and has no drone bay (despite the model indicating otherwise). Apparently in the manufacturing process the nanobots building it are instructed to weld the Moa's drone bay shut for some reason. No doubt over simple hatred towards the Gallente Federation.

Deimos is good but like the rest of the HAC's it is still no ishtar even after a slight drone skill rebalance

Ishtar is overpowered. The problem is mostly that EWAR is ineffective at simply stopping DPS from a drone boat...it only makes the drone angry. Also they don't have to worry about their own transversal and drones in system add to tidi/lag in a pretty hardcore way. The Ishtar puts out more dps at range or up close than should be expected. Link goes to fit that is typical in W-space. It is shown there with tracking speed in both links, optimal range in both and unscripted. In any case it puts out with t2 curator drones about 685 dps + or - 2% for level 4-5 skills. No other HAC can do that from 70km much less the 90+ km that the ishtar can hit with...all the while being able to damage targets despite ewar and without regard to tracking based on the hull's angular velocity. So this is why I love the ishtar and would in a fleet prefer it to any other ship in EVE regardless of the type of battle being fought.

Muninn is lame. It needs more base armor and shield and a bit more speed and probably a bit more bulk capacitor.

Vagabond is good. But it could use a bit more damage projection..out to 40km with an average fit. The TE nerf really hit the Vaga and cynabal hard. The vaga could use a slight boost to falloff bonuses. Leave the cynabal in at shorter range.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#69 - 2014-06-23 19:34:30 UTC
I fixed it for you spugg
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-06-23 20:45:14 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
I fixed it for you spugg



Thanks for adding a little here and there. Especially my spelling mistake on the Mega.

I don't totally agree with all of your changes but I think we're singing from the same song sheet.

I've been looking at the Tempest in particular today whilst bored at work and was wondering if:

Dropping the RoF damage bonus for a tracking bonus and buffing the damage bonus to 10% per level would make this ship really shine.


What do you think?
Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2014-06-23 21:48:42 UTC
I'm thinking give the pest the Rifter treatment and make it king of autocannons, with a 10% to falloff per level, as well as a small speed boost. That way the Tempest can work as a fairly good kiting BS, which is exactly what the description of an attack BS is all about.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#72 - 2014-06-24 00:24:39 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).



I knew the Ishtar's current incarnation was too good to last. We will miss you.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-06-24 02:28:59 UTC
Minty Aroma wrote:
I'm thinking give the pest the Rifter treatment and make it king of autocannons, with a 10% to falloff per level, as well as a small speed boost. That way the Tempest can work as a fairly good kiting BS, which is exactly what the description of an attack BS is all about.



The ship you're thinking of is called a Tornado. The Tempest needs to be differentiated from the Nado.

That's why I say a tracking bonus and to buff the damage bonus to 10% per level.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#74 - 2014-06-24 03:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).



I knew the Ishtar's current incarnation was too good to last. We will miss you.


The issue with the Ishtar is sentry drones on them. Yes sentry makes them great, but being able to use a full complement on a cruiser hull is overpowered. The fix has to be in two areas.
First off. Reduce the bandwidth of heavy drones to 20 bandwidth. So drone bandwidth loadout looks like this

Lights, 5 bandwidth
Mediums, 10 bandwidth
Heavies, 20 bandwidth
Sentries, 25 bandwidth.

Next, reduce the bandwidth of the Ishtar, gila, navy vexor to 100 bandwidth (from 125). The Gila keeps its potential, the Ishtar gets the kick in the nads.

The t3s need basically a total overhaul and that will take a while

Yaay!!!!
Oxide Ammar
#75 - 2014-06-24 05:54:21 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


He is simply saying we don't like any boat that can deploy 5 sentries so we are going back to nerf domis and ishtars, rest let them DIAF.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#76 - 2014-06-24 11:18:01 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


He is simply saying we don't like any boat that can deploy 5 sentries so we are going back to nerf domis and ishtars, rest let them DIAF.


Or he is saying that the 2 most used classes should be looked at again since they have now colected enough data after the last changes
Oxide Ammar
#77 - 2014-06-24 11:23:33 UTC
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).


He is simply saying we don't like any boat that can deploy 5 sentries so we are going back to nerf domis and ishtars, rest let them DIAF.


Or he is saying that the 2 most used classes should be looked at again since they have now colected enough data after the last changes


We have on pending list :
1- black ops
2- recons
3- T3
4- Capitals

But hey screw these, let's go back to what we finished before since it's easier for us to screw with.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#78 - 2014-06-24 11:31:19 UTC
Chipping in to say I love the Amageddon. Outstandingly versatile especially for a battleship and nicely differentiated from the other two Amarr BS.

One of my favorite changes that CCP have made, frankly, and anyone whining about it not being yet another one-dimensional armour tanked laser ship can sod off.
Joraa Starkmanir
Station Spinners United
#79 - 2014-06-24 11:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Joraa Starkmanir
Oxide Ammar wrote:


We have on pending list :
1- black ops
2- recons
3- T3
4- Capitals

But hey screw these, let's go back to what we finished before since it's easier for us to screw with.


1 and 2 are very integrated with eachoter (or can be atleast) if they dont know what they want to do with those yet, it would be foolish to even try a rebalance. T3 is whole other can of worms where EACH ship have 100's of configurations just counting subsystems. Capitals kinda need a good BS/HAC baseline before you even try to balance it, since thats the classes its most likely to go against other than other capitals.

If you want a good balance to capitals, it have to wait until subcaps are all done.
Black ops and T3 are already very strong in some niches but worthless in other roles they should be able to fill, nerfing their strong points may leave them as crap and buffing their weak points may just leave them OP.
Recons may be balanced alone but EWAR is something everyone have their own opinion about, its either very OP or totaly worthless depending on who you ask. This mean that balancing recons is a sensitive operation, that may be best done in a seperate patch or together with Black ops (that is used to bridge the most used half of recons)
Seolfor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-06-24 12:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Seolfor
Er, are these tweaks going to be before the ATXII i.e. within the next 2 months?

Either ways, please give Matari HACs their balls back.

Deimos/Sac should be the baseline to compare with:

- Ishtar clearly OP. Your own points allocation to the ATXII reflects your agreement.

- Munnin so bad (especially in lowsec) and

- Vaga such a one trick pony with nerfed TEs, horrible falloff dmg with faction ammo and no space for a web.

- Zealot can use some tweaks too