Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It doesn't. If you bothered to read the rest of what I wrote you'd realize that they don't even address cynos at all.

I disagree.

The driving factor for most PvPer's is "Effort". They are generally lazy. They look for combat as soon as they log on and they want the "rush" and the "fun" now.

That is why so many have been huddling around a Titan listening on comms for the "jump now" command, whilst they enjoy playing another game simultaneously.

The issue of local is one that needs addressing for null sec. However, it is tied into the issue of cloaking, the issue of cyno's, the issue of large scale passive incomes and the issue of capital and supercap power projection.

I personally would like to see a slight overhaul of the cloaking system and local to be linked via signature radius.

I have no time to embellish further other than to say I would have cloaking work by reducing signature radius and that under a certain signature radius (to be determined) you slip off local. Under a certain signature radius (to be determined) you slip of overview on grid.

Tie this in with a slight delay on the ability for someone to "hot drop" you and you could, perhaps, accommodate null sec farmers, roaming PvPings and the Black Ops fraternities.... .... maybe

Just my 2 cents, let's say local in nullsec is changed to prevent you seeing people, be it immediately, or after x time like someone early in the thread suggested, this is to some degree a smart move, it would prevent people been infinitely safe from surprise, that being said I can see the outcome of this going in one of a few ways, non of which are preferable in my eyes.

a) People will take to fitting stabs like they do in FW, meaning a solo PvPer has next to no chance of actually catching a ratter or miner with their pants down, which would force either fitting multiple points to ensure catching the prey, sacrificing other modules and limiting the fitting choices they can make, or people flying interdictors, unless I am mistaken stabs don't mean you can warp in bubbles, though I may be wrong on that I've never tried it.
If people started bubbling it would give rise to people ratting in a T3 hull with interdiction nullifier fit to counter it.

b) If someone came into system, people would just react the same as they do to a cloaky camper, they would dock up, POS up, take a JB to a different system, jump their carrier away or generally just avoid the possibility of a fight, also, due to intel channels and the likes, even if they disappear in local, all surround systems would have eyes in them, so you'd still by combining adding them to watchlist and the other systems eyes, know if they were here, you'd see them log out, you'd see them move to an adjacent system, if you don't see either, they are still here.

c) You have made nullsec function in near identical manor to WH space, I am sure if you did that, a percentage of people would choose to simply move into WHs, as the risks would be nearly the same, lack of a local needing to constantly D-Scan etc. but the isk I am told is much better in WH, again I may be wrong, I don't WH.

This is just my thoughts on the likely outcome of such changes, I don't claim to know everything, there are likely countless variables I haven't accounted for, all I know is that if I am out ratting, I won't fight in a ratting ship, I will dock up and switch to something more suited to the task in hand, and I also know that any change you could make to make safety in nullsec harder would be met with people thinking of ways around having to fight, or would simply move away to somewhere else, where they get more for the risk, or simply avoid the risk entirely.

I must disagree with you.

A> You were always limited to miners and ratters who had made bad choices already, or you would have never even landed on grid with them in null.
Intel channels normally broadcast your advance into the constellation long before you reach a system with PvE activity. This alerts miners and ratters to verify they are prepared.
Seeing a hostile name in local, is like a fire alarm going off. You have X number of seconds to get off grid and put your evasion plan into effect. You need to either land inside the POS shields, or inside the docking range of an outpost, before the hostile can do anything to block your access.
Alternately, if you equipped a cloak, warp to your isolated go-to location, and engage it.

B> Player coordinated and driven intel is good. It is the defenders first tool in handling hostile presence, and it's absence is the hostiles greatest weakness. Unless you have a wild awoxxer, that hostile has no idea who is where.

C> Your assumption that "(null - Local) == Wormhole space" is flawed.
Null without local is more comparable to a city block with the streetlights out, while WH space is more akin to a rainforest jungle.
Neither has working street lamps, but you can step into a "department store / Outpost" in one, and those "freeways / jump bridges" won't be found in the other either.

Removing local was discussed years ago - adding in 'constellation' chat was proposed. This chat system was implimented for wormholes and left out of normal Eve.

What if we removed local?

Surprise attacks would happen mroe often, Farming CareBears would be easy money for PVP'ers... but eventually the PVP'ers need to earn isk too... so suddenly they are subject to the same problem.

People are complaining about Sov mechanics - but if passive ISK generation is reduced and manual ISK generation is highly dangerous, then to avoid financial collapse a nullsec entity has to ectively control it's space in order for people to generate the ISK required to fight. E.g. they need to defend the carebears and PVP'ers earning

Admittedly having trillions of ISK already saved up from years of space-farmville make this idea a lot more difficult.

You are offering an unsubstantiated opinion.



You have nothing to support this claim, besides your apparent faith that it must be true.

You deliberately ignore that losses in PvP, requiring pilots to reship if not awaken into a fresh medclone, are far far easier to do in null space.
You can't even access med clones in a WH.
Buying a new ship, if you did not set any reserves in the POS? There is no market in the WH either.

And what about gate camps? It may not occur to you, but local did not tell you about those before hand.
You were either warned, had encountered them before, or they surprised you.
None of which involved local, so you probably don't consider them to be "good" PvP.

Oh, nice ad hominem, attempting to discredit me again on your lack of details about my PvP experience.
It is neither your business, nor relevant to this discussion, the nature of my past kills.

All I hear from you with this, is that your supposed resume is supposed to impress people.
Nevermind how it does not address my statement, making the claim of reasoned analysis questionable.
Without facts, you are left with opinions.


Try again. HOSTILES cannot dock.
Allied residents often stock local stations with ships and fittings that match doctrines.
Some by contract, some just salted into local outpost markets.
Lose enough ships, and you start to need more stock, or time to run off and buy more.
That's the difference between a good fight and a gank. Ganks expect to survive, while a good fight respects that the opponent has a fighting chance to win.

And we KNOW med clones for residents tend to be very local to conflicts, often by direction from command.

You don't speak for me, so I can rule out some PvP'ers right there.
Claiming most.... try being more modest when speaking for others, it feels more respectful.

Gate camps show up on local only from the inside. They are equally if not more oriented to ambush the pilots landing on them from the connecting gate.
As to making more of EVE a gate camp experience, you seem to miss the point.
They are on the gate, because by the time you load into the system and see local inside, you are already sitting in their trap.
You just landed at a bottleneck point with no direct warning, save for possibly others before you doing the same thing reporting it.
Why would anyone pass up on an ambush opportunity like that?



So, because I am arguing in a direction you don't agree with, I must be lacking experience.
Because I must be lacking experience, my arguments should be discarded... regardless of whether they are valid.

Just out of curiosity, since you feel qualified to speak for a version of null NOONE has experience with, how your experience has merit and should be used as informed?
You don't seem familiar with alliance doctrine fittings being available on contract, or med clones being positioned near expected hot areas...
Both of which are unreliable to unavailable for WH dwellers, which was a point I made you seemed to dispute.

I suggest you try to argue against my points without making claims I am wrong because you couldn't look me up on a kill board. Try facts, or logic.
Stop pretending you know me well enough to dismiss me so lightly.

Ya know, I'm really tired of all these local threads, so why don't CCP do somethign about it.

Do this. Run an event for a week-10 days (2 weekends included, I know thats when most players get to play)
Make up some bull about how Sansha incursion forces released a virus into the gates communications sytems or some crap, and that killed off local playerlists for a period of time. Concord is working on it, and it should be fixed by the end of the week.

Make the change (test them out on the test server first, or just copy the local code over from WHs) let it run for a week, see what happens, and then we'll have a metric to run these arguments against in the future.

The problem was never in the AFK cloackers or AFK campers, but only in the cyno they mount.
On my alts i few times where forcing to retreat a cloacky bomber/ recon or a T3, died also few times.
But it was fun.

In all of those cases those people where hunters , not cyno alts for a bigger group.
Thats why it was fun.

Lets hope that after sov, jump,bridge changes ( if they ever happen and go into direction people want) all those cloaky cyno alts change into cloaky hunters.

I agree it needs to be tested out in game. Then we can all be better informed.