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Ok, So Now Let's Balance Local Now To \0/\0/
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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-06-19 12:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Sibyyl wrote:

Your only argument for removing Local is to make finding fights easier.

Removing Local makes all these other usages I've described more difficult..



My dear Sibyyl, being that all alliances but CVA operate under a NBSI flag. If you had all blues visible to you in local + 1 pod (in the proposed pod count) that was unaccounted for in local... then, you would have the exact same intel as you have right now wouldn't you? You can run and dock up per usual.

The only thing you lose is the character's name.


So nothing is made more difficult for you as you suggest. Everything for you remains the same except for the fact that you don't get instant identification of who is in local 10 jumps away while you are docked in station. No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic. It is just now so ancient and engrained in EVE that it is not obvious to people anymore. You're living in NULL sec. Null sec not Empire and that should mean something. Blink

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#42 - 2014-06-19 12:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Sibyyl wrote:
And seriously, hiding me in Local makes my job mining rocks a lot easier. I'd be happy if that change was made. You don't want this. It's a terrible way to suck a lot of content out of 0.0.


How does knowing that there is a pod in local, but not exactly you in local, make your job easier? Are you planning on mining rocks in a place other then an asteroid belt or ore sanctum? Are you planning on cloaking your ship in order to make it invisible to Dscan while you are mining?



My point is whether I know your name or not, my task remains exactly the same. I have to use the dscan to search for likely locations and find you (or an unknown pilot) before you decide you want to warp away. I will not find your mining ship, or any other ship for that matter, any faster or slower if you are hidden in local. Trust me on this... I do it all of the time.

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-06-19 12:59:09 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So nothing is made more difficult for you as you suggest. Everything for you remains the same except for the fact that you don't get instant identification of who is in local 10 jumps away while you are docked in station. No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic. It is just now so ancient and engrained in EVE that it is not obvious to people anymore. You're living in NULL sec. Null sec not Empire and that should mean something. Blink

you still have provided no reason for a change beyond "i don't like it"

noone gets instant identification of someone ten jumps away

living in nullsec means that anyone can shoot you anywhere at anytime with no penalty and that bombs/bubbles are allowed

Quote:
No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic.


yes they should and no it's not.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#44 - 2014-06-19 13:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Benny Ohu wrote:

you still have provided no reason for a change beyond "i don't like it"


Sure i have you just don't like it.

Benny Ohu wrote:
noone gets instant identification of someone ten jumps away


WTF world are you living in? Do you really expect any of us to believe that? What?



Benny Ohu wrote:
No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic.

yes they should and no it's not.


Why? Why should people docked many systems away know that specifically I am there in the most distant and dangerous (Null) part of the game board? This is not the spirit in which EVE Online was founded. Even the devs stated that local could use some fixing, it is just that people like you cry quarts every time a fair improvement is submitted.

Mostly... because you have no real PVP skill and do not realize that such a change would hardly effect you at all. See post #53 and #54. Your ignorance and fear make you imagine a world were simply not knowing a character's name would make Null Sec a PVP free for all. That is just not the case at all.

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2014-06-19 13:17:56 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:

you still have provided no reason for a change beyond "i don't like it"


Sure i have you just don't like it.


no, that's the only reason you've submitted so far to make a change. "i don't like it"

Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
noone gets instant identification of someone ten jumps away


WTF world are you living in? Do you really expect any of us to believe that? What?


the game does not tell you who's ten jumps away.


Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Why? Why should people docked many systems away know that specifically I am there? This is not the spirit in which EVE Online was founded. Even the devs stated that local could use some fixing, it is just that people like you cry quarts every time a fair improvement is submitted.

Mostly... because you have no real PVP skill and do not realize that such a change would hardly effect you at all. See post #53 and #54. Your ignorance and fear make you imagine a world were simply not knowing a character's name would make Null Sec a PVP free for all. That is just not the case at all.


perhaps you should provide a reason for it being a bad game mechanic. otherwise any statement you make is refuted with "no it's not".

more fallacy. it doesn't matter my level of pvp skills and it doesn't matter how much a change'd effect me. it also doesn't matter if i'm ignorant or fearful, you have still to provide an actual valid reason to make a change.
Icylce
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-06-19 13:59:35 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:


Why? Why should people docked many systems away know that specifically I am there in the most distant and dangerous (Null) part of the game board? This is not the spirit in which EVE Online was founded. Even the devs stated that local could use some fixing, it is just that people like you cry quarts every time a fair improvement is submitted.

Mostly... because you have no real PVP skill and do not realize that such a change would hardly effect you at all. See post #53 and #54. Your ignorance and fear make you imagine a world were simply not knowing a character's name would make Null Sec a PVP free for all. That is just not the case at all.


So your problem actually is with ppl who report u on so called "intel channel". Because there is no other way for a player to know that u are 10 systems away from his position unless some other player tells him, unless ... "magic".
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#47 - 2014-06-19 14:40:19 UTC
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
I'm on this eternum guys side of the fence in all honesty. Local should show how many people in system but not details. In low and null.

Why?

There is a large amount of pilots up for this but the vocal null sec isk milkers would not wish it and thus it won't be. Null sec is full of carebears it's really that simple, why would you want it to change aye? Sure you need to keep and hold your SOV, turns out local means you don't need to actually patrol it to keep your renters safe. nope, you just need region wide intel channels and a cyno. I'm not wrong, null sec players know i'm not wrong yet still you'll all hate to see this boat rocked.



As a solo pvper the information in local helps me decide if I should take a fight or if I am just dealing with bait. There is more pvp in eve than just people ganking pve ships and industrials. At least in low sec there is. Null sec? I don't care what they do there.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-06-19 15:05:46 UTC
Milla Stenier-Tian wrote:
Felicity Love wrote:
It can be argued that npc Empire factions have all kinds of apparatus in each system to keep track of any capsuleer's whereabouts. Big Brother is always watching.

In the deep dark of Null, nobody gives a damn. And certainly not the passive apparatus of Empire factions -- because it doesn't exist out there.



I like this Idea.


May the nullsec would required an ihub with a new upgrade to track peoples in local.
If not : no local (unless you speak in local).

The background could be explain by the way you said.



Please CCP, read and do this :)

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Lord Fudo
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-06-19 16:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Fudo
I want cloaked players to not show up in local, includingthe cloak when jumping in from a gate or wormhole. Decloak, appear in local, cloak up, disappear from local.
Iain Cariaba
#50 - 2014-06-19 16:54:04 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Whaaa! I don't like something so CCP needs to change it!!!

Wow, we usually don't get this many tears from PvPers. They really do taste better than carebear tears.

'I don't like this' is not a valid reason to make changes to anything. Reading your posts, you're just mad cause the area you hunt in knows who you are and what you fly. The solution to this is not change local, but to change the area you hunt in or what you fly. As far as local being unbalanced, it gives you the same information it gives us. Apparently we know how to use it better than you do.

That being said, I happen to like the ideas you presented. Whether or not I know who the neut that came in system wouldn't change my reshipping into pvp ship when one appears.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-06-19 17:42:50 UTC
WTF is it with this "new EVE"


This was a general discussion on what people thought about this subject, this was not submitted as a new feature and idea. How the hell could it be a new feature and idea discussion if the threads purpose was to collect and discuss thoughts on this matter?



Doesn't it bother anyone else that the ISD's new mandate is to bury issues like this and lock every single thread pertaining to AFK cloaking? What is wrong with you people... what happened to the eve uproar I used to know and love?






Well... time to make some AFK cloaking threads I guess. Peace out.

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-06-19 19:44:10 UTC
Lord Fudo wrote:
I want cloaked players to not show up in local, includingthe cloak when jumping in from a gate or wormhole. Decloak, appear in local, cloak up, disappear from local.

Which is ******** and it will never happen.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#53 - 2014-06-19 20:04:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Attentive PVEers in null have a tool that allows them to avoid confrontations they can't survive - clearly this should be taken from them so they can be even easier targets. Roll

This is not a most recent quote, but it points out a clear and misleading argument I have seen used.

It suggests, to some readers, that the PvE pilot in question may not be avoiding ALL contact, just the encounters they deem too risky.

Now, follow this up with the often seen argument about cyno use, and how ANYONE could really be the entry point for an entire fleet.

The math follows, that since anyone could represent an overwhelming force, therefore everyone must be treated as having this potential.

PvE pilots watch local so they can avoid all hostile contact, since they can't risk any at all.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-06-19 20:18:40 UTC
I'm all up for this. It would be cool to have a system upgrade that would reveal all pilots though. This would increase the work that goes into intel for empty regions of space without significantly changing the risk for ratters and miners in more populated areas..

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Smugest Sniper
neko island
Deedspace Consortium
#55 - 2014-06-19 21:00:30 UTC
A point of reference I would make, in alliance chat it'll show number in chat but only show names if you talk there. Keeping numbers but removing names unless you speak on entry might be a possibility to consider.

I do think that allies should be aware of each other automatically, as well as corpmates and fleet members. or at least the latter two.

Or if you see said person you and your fleet should be aware in local.

I dunno, **** isn't broken, don't **** with it.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#56 - 2014-06-19 22:45:07 UTC
honestly, I always thought there should be a deployable in null that was the communications array. You want local to vanish you need a gang to RF it. you want local to remain, you have to deploy one.

simple.

but I don't have an issue with local in null so meh

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Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2014-06-19 22:51:07 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
..... what happened to the eve uproar I used to know and love?
Well... time to make some AFK cloaking threads I guess. Peace out.



Confirmed for troll without ideas or complaints.

+1 for array that allows sov holders to see tourists but not vice versa. Higher dev indices, more intel.
Yes.









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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#58 - 2014-06-20 00:46:15 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So nothing is made more difficult for you as you suggest. Everything for you remains the same except for the fact that you don't get instant identification of who is in local 10 jumps away while you are docked in station. No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic. It is just now so ancient and engrained in EVE that it is not obvious to people anymore. You're living in NULL sec. Null sec not Empire and that should mean something. Blink

you still have provided no reason for a change beyond "i don't like it"


I support the op's idea of at least hiding the exact pilot name to force locals to go out and check out who is there...

The reasons I would advance I s the meta game information obtained from local, which is disproportionate to the risk taken to obtain it (ie no risks at all)
NS is supposed to be, a dangerous place for everyone, including the natives. Identifying incoming without having to lift a finger, just by reading local and intel is simply lazy carebearing...


Benny Ohu wrote:
noone gets instant identification of someone ten jumps away

Of course you do with the intel channels. Denying that is just plain disingenuous to protect a system that is heavily geared in favor of the natives and controlling alliances.



Quote:
No one should have that power, it is a poorly designed game mechanic.

Benny Ohu wrote:

yes they should and no it's not.

No they shouldn't and yes it is

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Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2014-06-20 01:23:51 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I'm all up for this. It would be cool to have a system upgrade that would reveal all pilots though. This would increase the work that goes into intel for empty regions of space without significantly changing the risk for ratters and miners in more populated areas..


If done properly it may encourage alliances to hold smaller amounts of space with higher qualities of intel
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#60 - 2014-06-20 02:07:29 UTC

I very much proposed a similar change as the Op....

Although I took it all the way to a full blown intel system:

Enter system, and you immediately get a count of "ships in space". But you don't get information on who they are until they are "within your ships scanner range".

I also added the caveat that you share your "intel" with fleet members.

I called it obfuscation through anonymity. Basically, you always know when someone is in system, but you don't necessarily know they are friend or foe. In high traffic friendly systems, people will complacently believe the new locals are generally friendly.