Ships & Modules

Confirming that a blaster Kronos is a monster. I finally broke down and tried one out over the weekend and...wow. Null + optimal range scripts for <15km, AM + tracking scripts for targets <15km. Great damage, good enough engagement envelope and damage application, great tank.

I'm hooked. (Not that I run missions that often, but still.)

Boosting the signature radius of sub-BS targets helps BS-class guns hit. Webs are far more effective, but they don't have nearly the range.

EDIT: I'm not saying you should do it, or that I do, only that it's not a complete waste if you do.

Well considering a third TC isn't that strong maybe I'll try out putting a target painter there after all. I was thinking putting a web there earlier but not many frigs close into easy webbing range.

A web will be more effective against frigates and cruisers that orbit you close. A painter will be more effective at popping them while they approach.

If you have good range control (i.e. MJD), I'd say pick the painter. If not, or if you tend to run missions that land you in a pack of frigates, I'd say pick the web. Either will help you more than a third TC.

Well form my perspective he is a low effort casual player and he gives lots of hints about it in his posts. If he has to do less on grid that works for him, if he can ignore mechanics and improve times just by this that works for him, if he did something wrong and now have a tool that compensate for this so he hasn't to change the way he plays it works for him. I don't criticize this, because a lot of people that I did meet over the years in MMOs are like this. However it makes me rage when they post about "improved effectiveness" after changes, simply because they are less penalized for his mistakes, while they make fun of others that spend a lot more effort into what they do, optimize her game play to avoid the mistakes in the first place and complain about nerfs in overall effectiveness. I don't do a few L4s as entertainment in the evening like others. When I do them I have a certain set goal of ISK I want to acquire and look for the best solution to archive that goal in a minimum of time spend(what results in a 1.5-2B isk grind every single day, like I did with the SOE changes last time) to go back to something more interesting. There is a vast difference between what I consider as effective and what he does(what has nothing to do with arrogance just a different pov). This is also the reason why I posted very different DST setups in the other thread, when I have to do 500 jumps with them a day, what includes low sec I have to fit and use my DST different to people that only use it for a few jumps or to afk travel.

Marauders are not meant to be anything new, it is just how people that never really utilized them before think they are used effective(what isn't even the case in my opinion).



I can tank all L4s with a single med rep and zero resistance mods in the bastion Kronos(works fine even for the first pocket of Recon 1/3), you do in fact need to over tank everything, since you only need 200-300 dps worth of tank in the first place and you would end up with a 100 dps tank outside of bastion. I tried with 2 slot tanks but for some scenarios they don't give you enough EHP after you already burned the cap with the mwd and need to delay repairs for cap reasons. In the end the bastion marauder had exactly the same amount of tank slots on it than my marauders before the changes, what means 2 on the Vargur, 2 on the Paladin and 3 on the Kronos(never really flown the Golem much because of the lack of speed).



Gone berserk spawns everything within 30-35km and is a 5-6 minute mission(depending on the ship, it is one where medium range BS dominate every other option by applying max dps up to spawn points from a good position) with proper movement. You don't want to move a full 100km, you want to move the ship in a position to take out re spawns or additional spawn groups as quick as possible.



I don't have the issue with the frigs, that is solvable by movement and spawn triggering rather easy. WC is the prime example of good mwd mission, because the mwd movement saves so much time reaching a good dps spot quick(that is 20km behind the gate in the first pocket) to take out the spawn, bounce back to the 2. pocket, move your BS directly back wards in the 2. pocket so you can shoot the web frigs at the entry point with guns and catch every single frig of the big spawn, kill the group at the gate and move to it while you take out the remaining spawn. In the last pocket, again after you took out the spawn that agros you on warp in(what the 90% web is super effective to do it quick), you loot the heron, move 30km away and kill all ships(including frigs) with guns and sentry drones a lot quicker than having them at zero at the warp in, because you can track them at 30km a lot better. You can do the hole Angel path(1-3. pocket) in 16 minutes(give or take a bit, warp in/warp out) what gives you 14-16M ISK, 9.8k LP and another 4M mission reward(even assuming low value that is 90-100M per hour, single boxing, not looting, not salvaging, in a rail BS that other people consider ineffective against angels). It is one of the prime examples where the mix of flexible engagement range, enough cap to burn around and tank without using cap mods or cap boosters, the 90% web to speed up unavoidable close range situations and the good speed could be utilized to great effect.

So is Blockade, Silence the Informant and Pirate Invasion for a rail BS, since it only has to move around in 30km steps, utilizing the range to gain extra flexibility in where you park it to do optimal damage against the re spawns because you have a fairly huge engagement window.

the continued personal attacks aside your posts just continue to highlight how badly stuck you are in the pre bastion marauder thinking.

90% webs on marauders were a crutch, something that allowed certain ships to flat out ignore many game mechanics and interactions. not only that but it completely dominated the vindi and made it nearly irrelevant. they removed the webs, get over it. at least it is kinda balanced on serp ships and gives thew their niche.

you incursion background however does now explain a lot, in particular your elitist and arrogant interaction with me. come live in a c5 wormhole for a few months, hopping from hole to hole every 4 days, scanning down chains daily that will make a seasoned wormholer cry and dare to call me a ******* casual again.

Again where is the personal attack? Do you really want to tell me that every player in a MMO does things the same and there fore got the same POV? I tell you about my POV, I have heard people telling me that WoW is a easy game and got no difficulty in it then I asked this persons if they even did try out real raiding or even attempted HC raiding? Guess what this person only levelled up till cap and got bored after farming 1001 fetch quests, not even realizing that this is just filler content. Some people told me that L4s is easy and got no interesting mechanics in them, and I asked them why they need a 1200 dps tank then? They did replay that they lost ships before with less tank still trying to convince me that you need this much for it, because they do. Some people in Incs tell you that you can't use T1 logis, because they can't be fitted to do the same just as good as T2 logis, while I put T1 logis on grid without any issues and even dual boxed one as solo VG logi in fleets with 1 slot armor tanks.

Do you know where opinions like this come from? The lack of knowledge about game mechanics, hulls, fittings and the different ways the same game can be played by different persons.



You realize that most of the PVE content you play today was designed in a time where every ship had 90% webs and marauders had 99% webs to save you some time. The serpentis hulls got the web bonus in 2009 because without 90% webs they did just plain suck. I love it when you claim it would be used to ignore game mechanics, while in reality it was put into the game because of the dreadful scaling of the tracking formula at close range and acted as a equalizer to allow close range ships to hit hard at a range where they normally couldn't track a target.

Marauders completely dominated the Vindicator? Do you even realize that both Kronos and Vindicator where fairly different in the way they got used, while the first might be ok active tanking stuff for small gang in any other pvp application the Vindicator was better because it had the extra med, did more dps and had the extra rig slot for more buffer(heck most people didn't even know that Marauders had the web bonus). In PVE the Kronos could do something the Vindicator had issues with, running a long range rail setup, using a 1-2 drone links and sporting the far better cap and active tank what did allow to save slots for cap. The paladin was completely different as well(hybrids vs lasers) and the balanced T2 resists made it a extreme good RR BS for Incs and WH.



So the ship did improve because you can do the same bad game play without being punished by the game for it and people that did complain about the changes, that had non of your issues with the hulls are wrong because you did something right that they did wrong? You opinion about efficiency improvements might be true, for yourself, but you struggle to see why people that run faster, more efficient and did pve a lot longer then you see issues, because they play vastly different than you do.



This was your replay on somebody that compared his TQ marauder on a fair basis with his Sissi Marauder back then(no not me). Again no useful argument form you back then, besides that you think thing A will out value thing B, even if the person before you explained very clearly why this is not the case for him. Kundos for not even using damage drones when debating about damage and its effect on efficiency(seriously ground floor).



It is quite funny that you call me arrogant or attest me elitism because I do Incs(beside lots of other stuff in EvE).

I am not arrogant, I just point out that your opinion comes from your lack of experience with certain ships, fittings and game mechanics. Given your posts that is quite accurate in my opinion.

I did life alone in a C4 for like 3 months, triple boxing the sites with 2 Paladins(yes I used Marauders in WH long before the changes) and 1 Guardian, I did life in 0.0 and I did life in Low Sec, is there something you want to tell me about how you living in a C5 makes your arguments somehow better?

No it was based on a TQ/sissi complacence with the final stats, that marauders where changed to for TQ. It should be easy to find, since it is in your posting history. I was just pointing out where you coming from. It is quite ironic if you compare it with the guy in the other thread that told you the Golem is the best ship for L4s because he doesn't have to pay attention and can watch TV while pve and you tell him it is not effective used this way. You told him he is wrong and he tells you it must be the best, because it works for him the best. Can you see a similarity to the discussion we have here?



It is a 90% web since 2008. I also admire your pov that it is only useful against frigs, displaying your great knowledge about rail tracking. I am not living in the past, I just don't fly marauders any more, because they became ineffective with the changes to people that don't need uber tanks, mjd or ew immunity to begin with. The issue is not that I have problem with frigs(I don't), the issue is that you believe that I need it and can't play without it(watch my vids about the fleet phoon and navy Apoc). The truth is that I can play without it, it is just a good amount less effective(and one of the reasons I don't use Kronos and Paladin any more), what isn't obvious to you(because you don't even know why and how it was utilized by others). I did hear the "use light drones slogan" so many times over the years, and it comes from players that don't know how to archive good applied dps with painters and webs and the reason why they can't hit something properly is not because you shouldn't but because you don't stack beneficial factors enough. Btw I consider using light drones as fairly ineffective, sure it gets the job done, but it is the worst option to get something done.



Yes because this issues can also be migrated by other means(like parking your rail BS in front of a spawn with damp/TD ships in it before it agros you), that is actually more effective because it also reduces the time it takes to take the spawn out quite a lot. The only exception is ECM, then again ECM is a horrible game mechanic because there is little you can do against by actively flying your ship.

Missile and drone platforms have other issues, like defender missiles, volley counting, TP rotation, low dps on the move without sentry drones, drone travel time, often more issues to take out frigs quick and often less effective DPS on the target(including over alpha it, not optimal damage types because the range requirements restrict you to another type of drone and more micromanagement in most cases). The reason why so many people tell you this hulls are more effective is simply that they produce the best results with the bare minimum in effort spend flying them, however if you want to archive similar good results with them as with other hulls it actually means even more work most of the times, than with gunships. It takes a while but when you flown everything, you actually get a fairly good understanding of the mechanics and balance in the game what is EvE online.



So you laugh because you make it harder to yourself then it has to be? I known the mechanics fairly well when I decided on the type of WH and if it is just about ISK and effort, you can't go much better than tipple boxing a C4.



Again where is the personal attack? Both rail navy domi or rail vindicator are better and even a sentry/rail hype or navy mega is just as good for a fraction of the price, I guess the blaster Kronos is ok for people that want to semi afk it, if you just look at plain performance not so much, especially compared to what it could do once before the bastion changes.

There where good reasons to fly them before the bastion changes and there are still some niches where they are useful(a lot less since the changes) without bastion in the first place. But yeah, Bastion all the way and everybody else must be wrong, especially the people that flown the hulls long before you did.

A tl;dr discussion.

I am flying the Rattlesnake now and it's doing way better than the Scorpion Navy Issue. I was thinking about going for the Dominix Navy Issue, but I have CPU problems with that fit, which means having to fit a CPU rig on it. Both my SNI and Rattlesnake fits have 3 missile rigs on them.

Don't just look at the dps numbers. A navy mega is a great mission ship. Split guns will insta pop frigs and cruiser and bc's die very quickly. A faction web and a TP will make sure your guns hit just about every orbiting close by.

EDIT-- Go play on the test server.. its cheaper :)