Player Features and Ideas Discussion

CCP Fozzie you reading this thread?

I saw you replied to the "Changes to SOV..." thread, but not this one?

I would like to think you are watching, so what is your response to this very interesting idea?

I definitely like the idea of the Capital Station...awesome idea! I can see it in all its grandeur like a castle floating in the blackness of space just waiting for the siege to come!

+1 - Great idea.

Well, life sucks horribly. And one of the most hyped feature of Eve is that it sooo like a real life world.

When did you watch TV last time, like, in 1945? How many global wars you have seen after that one? Current world "sucks" horribly, from this point of view. Some arabian or africans unceasing brawlings on the outskirts of civilization, several serious crises happened when it seemed to almost ready to snap anytime - and thats about all. The real world is boring and relatively stable place devided by several powerblocks who don't engage each other directly but use some proxy petty nations, some clowns and maniacs from failed barely civilized states to do all the dirty work - just like it happens in Eve atm.

Do you know why full plated knights ceased to exist at some point? And even in times they ruled the battlefield they never did it alone? Because it's much more effective to bring 5000 peasants with crossbows and longbows and pikes on the battlefield, as single arrow from crossbow or pike used right will end carreer of the knight. Anyone can get more than enough peasants, and if you lose 10k of them, you'll replenish them right away. This approach won't work for knights, so - needs much more training and equipment costs you a fortune. I thought Goons demonstatred how this work to Eve's playerbase pretty well. Shurely, peasanats will be more effective if supported by group of knights, but that group alone won't win any serious battle aside from rare lucky occurences.
Special forces don't win wars, they facilitate main operations by destroying infrastracture and disrupting logistics, by delivering crippling strikes behind the enemy lines - this shurely helps but won't win a war alone. I don't know why you mentioned it, as I don't argue that some space for smaller group should exist. I argue the necessity of removing sovereignty to make this space, like OP demands.

Yea, there was no single historical precedent of such situation in the whole lifespan of humanity[/sarcasmoff] Like there wasn't some particular Empire, which is effectively conquered most of the known (to them) world and crumbled eventually under its enourmous weight of vanity and corruption freeing some space for your ancestors, simple barbarians then (assuming you are a white european person, that is)

I called them kiddish not just because of poor organization of events (and I didn't say all of them are crappy). The problem about FW is it's actually about nothing. Total zero, it's just a sandbox inside a sandbox, meaning a playground for "kids" (don't take it personally, I mean those only starting their way in PvP) without any serious consequences, wihtout any investments. One canno't simply go to nulls and claim a SOV. Renting helps a lot and still you often need to set some logistics and may be some POSes. And of course risk to lose some of these if something changes.

Well, I'm shure that FW was designed this way with this goal in mind - to allow place for easy and open for all PvP, to attract those PvP-shy players with good LP rewards and temp them taste a little of other type of content. But thats why it's about nothing - you drop from militia, and aside of standing losses (which most time even not an issue as using alts or FW universally recomended) you lose nothing. You fight for nothing, too - those system wide indexes is of no interest to general FW combatants, and their impact isn't so significant; and it's limited to FW systems only, there are other lowsecs to get away from it easly. Most of FW combatants care about LPs or about good fights, not about some strategy. Well, most of nullsec combatants too. But those actually can easly lose their space, and many mills of investments, at least. They have some real incentive to protect this particular place.

And in case of leaders it's even more true - FW leaders don't have any incentive to fight aside from fight itself at all (lets forget about RP element here, it's neglectable anyway). Nullsec SOV leaders risk huge amount of investments and past efforts made to get their space. They fight for real estate, for measurable wealth. And where some real estate and wealth cut in, there is a policy born. And as real world policy it most of the time full of boring and sordid stuff, but that what makes nulls unlike any other space in game.

There is a problem in the sand box. CCP

I am playing for more then 4 years and I can remember when the login screen was showing 50-60k players online.
Now I see 20k some times 30k.

There is a problem with the sand box!
This problem is that in you sandbox CCP some players have build there sand castles and you can say they reached the end game.
Those people have nothing to do. Those people started to move to other games already.

CCP wake up! Do not let Eve Online die, because you are too afraid to touch something in the sand box.
CCP for the last 2 years you were on rescue mode. Since incarnia you did nothing but trying to "rescue" the game with small changes/fixes and re-balancing. You did only one good thing, that was low sec fix.
Two years! That is a long time to wait for something new in this game.

CCP it is time to change the rules! Its time to shake that sand box, and create new challenges.
CCP do not let eve online die, please.

It's a time for real Expansion CCP!

I do not know where are you looking, or what glasses are you using...
Check here: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
In the last year the server has not reached 40k.
Looks like server is most visited from 16:00 to 22:00 (6 hours) the rest of the day is under 30k.

In looking at the data, it appears to be somewhat rare to go over 40,000 for regular periods. Look at the weekly average average for all time.

The idea of seeing 50-60k regularly way back in the golden years is likely biased recall.

I'm talking about basic concept. I agree that something must be done about current SOV mechanivs, but no need to remove it completely.

Consider.

F

Feyd - Good read. When you have a second examine what could be done game mechanics wise which would “stress” the out of game community that has developed within the CFC at this point. Currently they rely on each other to survive and will simply strive to make sure they have a work around established for every conceivable threat after any of the SOV changes other people are promoting.

Remove Jump bridges = CFC Alliances put Jump Clones in each main station of each CFC Alliance Region.

Remove Titan Bridges = CFC Alliances put Jump Clones in each main station of each CFC Alliance Region.

Remove Jump Drives = CFC Alliances put Jump Clones in each main station of each CFC Alliance Region and supports the Existing local CFC Alliances Capital fleet with massive SubCap blob.

32,000 members of CFC Alliances insure that they can always have enough PvP toons ready to Jump clone to assist a member Alliance while they have an alt at home to keep SOV up.

But they can’t defend everywhere! Well if that were the case we would see people attacking their space now but if you notice, diplomacy has solved all that. If many of the suggestions went through that people are talking about the only place that would burn would be the East. The RUS would get back together and the CFC would move East to destroy NCDot/Nulli while PL made a deal to save their own ass.

If TCUs, SBUs, Timers, and Docking rights go away you would actually see small pvp corps and Alliances move out to 0.0 stations and start using the space around it. A lot of these smaller Corps and Alliances are so good at PvP and harassment tactics that many of the CFC Alliances hiding behind the walls of HP, Timers, and Docking rights would crumble under the weight of this constant assault. The classic response of “adapt or die” would actually apply to Null Sec. The Alliances that held space in Null Sec would actually have to be good at the game to hold space.
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I've only managed to get 5 or 6 pages into this but there seems to be some misunderstanding as to where the line of 'Game Mechanics' ends and 'Risk averse players' begins. Removing Sov doesn't make people want to fight more - the solution suggested would just lead to more people sitting docked up in stations.

Any solution needs to force people to spend more time in space - and making stations more accessible to everyone is not a good way to do that

See, I think you misunderstand a point on this.

Absolutely nothing will MAKE people want to fight more. The risk averse will always have an excuse to avoid this.
So we can safely say that won't change.

What it will invite, is more opportunity, not blocked by numbingly effective leverage that stops attempts to reach desired targets before they see any light at the end of the tunnel.

Sure, a gate camp is great for defense.
But this is a game we are playing. Those ships you stopped? They were going to play with your allies, but instead of your allies preparing to play spaceships, they sent a few gatecamp volunteers and played space-farm instead.

As the obvious happens, and players adapt, it becomes accepted that the space farmers can't be touched, and they stop even being able to handle hostile presence at all.

Somewhere the idea that we want to shoot at each other has been misplaced, by a mockery of real world survival instincts, and we are avoiding interaction as if this was not a game at all.