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The Bank of Far -- An interesting Lesson
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Scion Lex
LEX Investments
#1 - 2014-06-16 18:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Scion Lex
When bank of far suddenly shut down I wasn't surprised. When she claimed that she paid back all her investors I wasn't surprised. When no one complained or asked what happened I was totally not surprised. She, apparently, did what she said she would do and shut down the 'Bank' properly. Stepping off of the stage in that manner probably did more for her rep then anything else.

I have been in RL crisis twice during my investment career. Once during my military service when I was forced to leave the game and once when an death of a close friend took priority in my life. In the first instance I paid back all my investors. In the second instance I worked through it.

Being forced out of the game and having to go through the pain of shutting down an investment fund taught me that I could handle that worse that was thrown at me IRL or in EVE. Its a subject most people don't talk about though it is a major factor. What happens to the investors isk if you get hit by a bus? Are there policies in place? Can we trust this person to follow through even if they are dealing with a personal crisis?

So Far showed up, made her stand and then bowed out and nobody cared. That's always been my point. In fact, if you are a good investment institution then no one should care. You should attract as little attention as possible. Public attention and public money = more work and headaches than any decent manager would want to deal with. You should live up to your own standards and focus on the clients well being because that is your bread and butter. If you do it correctly you will be happy, your clients will be happy and no one else will care because it isn't an interesting read. Its too bad the the best mark of trust is only apparent once the manager is gone.

Here is to Far returning as a private institution. Surely she has the rep she needs now.Roll
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#2 - 2014-06-16 19:04:19 UTC
I cared, since I had 100mil invested in her bank. And, I was very pleased to see that she returned it to me. You're right too, her successful closure was, sadly, quiet. Everyone that bashed her endlessly suddenly had nothing to say, not even a single 'like' on her final posting. I hope she comes back, but I also hope she comes back with some major changes to her policies. Bravo, Far, wherever you are.

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-06-16 20:14:01 UTC
It probably helped that the thread was immediately locked after the shut-down.
Thai Win Lannister
House Lannister Royal Family
#4 - 2014-06-16 20:44:03 UTC
Aren't we all both near and far
from the bank and from the car?

If you are struck by a semi truck,
will any pilot give a ****?

We are here today, but not tomorrow.
Our lives are closed with little sorrow.

So she wanders into the distance
without a shred of resistance.

Peace, oh Far, our dear, old friend.
In our hearts we pray, "This is not The End."
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2014-06-17 02:07:08 UTC
If I were Far, I'd return in a few months and start a new bank up, and use the credibility gained by this incident to steal everything.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Quant Predictorian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-06-17 05:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Quant Predictorian
Investment Insurance is needed in case owner of the fund hit by a bus or unexpected shut-down or even scam. This is why derivatives market is so important.

Investor, ancap, correspondence chess player, Fischer random fan (http://www.chess959.com)
Scion Lex
LEX Investments
#7 - 2014-06-17 05:10:14 UTC
Quant Predictorian wrote:
Investment Insurance is needed in case owner of the fund hit by a bus or unexpected shut-down or even scam. This is why derivatives market is so important.


Your real world market brilliance has no application here in New Eden. Good try though.
Scion Lex
LEX Investments
#8 - 2014-06-17 05:35:05 UTC
I will go as far as to say that such notions are a major part of the problem when it comes to the concept of banks and investment funds in new eden. Let's get one thing clear. The new eden economy and the the real world, free market economies are not....I repeat not the same beasts.

New Eden is a totally unregulated market...a fantasy. It is all so not the center of the universe. RL will forever loom over any long term operation inside of New Eden. When people try to take the "duh...real world solution" and apply it to a video game they are often accused of roleplaying. Because trying to take a concept like investment insurance and use it in eve is just as useful and effective as roleplay.

"But Lex, dont be an idiot. If we can build banks in the real world why can't we build them here?"

I'm not saying it will never happen. I am saying it will never stand as a public, open ended operation which is exactly what every bank and scam presents itself as. I am saying it will never happen on the scale some of you folks wish because of a refusal to acknowledge the amount of time, effort and energy it would take to do so. When it does happen it is made possible by people who use collateral and have been at it for so long that the don't advertise. Only a small percentage of the player base can sustain that energy level. Which further leads me to believe that the majority of the traders here are merely wannabes. The route to success is pretty clear. Yet so many refuse to see and so many more feed into the notion resulting of an obnoxious about of isk exchanging hands over a obvious lie.

Investment funds can provide some nice perks and incentive for a group of investors. Yet, there needs to be a vision, a plan and the manager needs to be transparent. This is not the sort of project that is meant to be conducted by strangers.
Quant Predictorian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-06-17 18:27:40 UTC
Scion Lex wrote:
Investment funds can provide some nice perks and incentive for a group of investors. Yet, there needs to be a vision, a plan and the manager needs to be transparent. This is not the sort of project that is meant to be conducted by strangers.

This is interesting. It is like a big experiment held on a parallel universe (multiverse, whatever) where dystopian forces are in full control.

Investor, ancap, correspondence chess player, Fischer random fan (http://www.chess959.com)
Thai Win Lannister
House Lannister Royal Family
#10 - 2014-06-17 19:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Thai Win Lannister
Quant Predictorian wrote:
It is like a big experiment held on a parallel universe (multiverse, whatever)

Technically, it is being conducted within a subset of our specific reality within the 11 hyperspatial dimensions on which our currently reality timeline exists. Though it is true that an infinite number of similar experiments are being conducted on an infinite number of both similar and divergent multiverses in addition to our own.

But yea.. EVE is the wild west. You can be mugged and shot in broad daylight, and the townsfolk continue to hum along, tending to their daily business. The only laws around here are game mechanics, and players can often find creative workarounds to those, too.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#11 - 2014-06-17 19:33:52 UTC
Thai Win Lannister wrote:
Quant Predictorian wrote:
It is like a big experiment held on a parallel universe (multiverse, whatever)

Technically, it is being conducted within a subset of our specific reality within the 11 hyperspatial dimensions on which our currently reality timeline exists. Though it is true that an infinite number of similar experiments are being conducted on an infinite number of both similar and divergent multiverses in addition to our own.

But yea.. EVE is the wild west. You can be mugged and shot in broad daylight, and the townsfolk continue to hum along, tending to their daily business. The only laws around here are game mechanics, and players can often find creative workarounds to those, too.

I love this guy!

TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending

TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Thai Win Lannister
House Lannister Royal Family
#12 - 2014-06-17 20:09:14 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
I love this guy!

I love you too, man.

. . . - _o/ \o_ -
. . . -. . | . .| . . -
. . . - . .^ . ^ . -
Awkward Sanchez
Awkward Honesty Inc.
#13 - 2014-06-17 20:41:50 UTC
Back in my time, we had to do the rep grind ourselves...

Awkward Honesty. the only mutually profitable scam in eve.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#14 - 2014-06-17 22:02:23 UTC
A little rambing off mine.

When an institution orderly closes down, someone does notice it.


It's just a case of "A falling tree makes a greater noise than a growing forest".

As RAW23 has noticed some years ago, most (90% or so) investments proposed on MD succeed. Even in game, most arrangements do succeed. And no one "seems" to notice them.

When one fails, then there's all sort of noise and complaints from the affected parties.


But investors, the good ones that last through the years, are able to listen to growing forests. They listen and silently take notes.



As for the argument about in game banks / securities etc. being able to be like their RL counterparts: they may be like their RL counterparts as much as the game lets them to.
In the current state, the game lets very little of that, because it won't implement a lot of basic mechanics (i.e. enforceable repayment and so on) AND because RL conditions don't even exist in EvE: the most important being the need to eat and live or a debt-based (rotten) world economy. In EvE everybody could just slowly accrue wealth by creating ISK out of nowhere (i.e. by running missions). Nor there are thieves who may pickpocket your or even steal in your house! Thus many reasons to have banks or other financial things don't really hold well in EvE.

One of the few things that EvE really mimicks well is the economy in the broadest sense, including goods demand and offer. Markets come straight out of economy and In there the mechanics are actually implemented (short sell is not strictly needed, even in RL some markets don't have it). Therefore EvE has realistic markets, realistic economy, yet no realistic "institutions" to govern (and cheat on Pirate) them.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Styx Titan
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-06-19 07:57:20 UTC
Was very happy with the level of service I received while a member. I was paid and my deposit returned.

Happy to have invested locally.