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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#281 - 2014-06-17 17:22:23 UTC
Commandante Caldari wrote:
I just see one issue here CCP should take a look at: bumping.
All Freighters were bumped 200+ clicks off the gate by a Machariel. And this is absurd. Those Freighters have no chance to align and warp off. In the meantime the gankers with a negative standing up to -10 form up, warp on grid first at warp in range to the Freighter, CONCORD shows up, they warp on top and gank. More CONCORD shows up. This will additionally create lag what might make it hard to save your pod.


Every time someone in this thread mistakes faction police for CONCORD, a new ganker gets his wings.

I'll give you a hint: If the ganker's ship can still warp, CONCORD isn't even on the way.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Omar Alharazaad
Spectrum Reborn
#282 - 2014-06-17 18:32:34 UTC
De'Veldrin, I think you should definitely proceed with your freighter escort venture. I think the baseline problem here is that people assume that something will not work before they even bother to put forth the effort to try. If you can show them results through your own efforts (in exchange for a reasonable fee of course, no such thing as a free lunch) perhaps it will reduce the amount of wailing and chestbeating that's going on over these perceived injustices against 'defenseless' ships.

Of course there's also the opportunity to lay a nasty trap and blap a fat freighter for the iskies. This is EVE after all.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#283 - 2014-06-17 18:49:59 UTC
So... just to prove my point I grabbed a Nado and went to a popular suiciding system....

within roughly 15 minutes i found 2 -10 dessys....

both dead before they could suicide anyhting, sadly the char i am using has ****** skills so the faction police stole one of the killmails.

But i am happy to provide the killmail for the other one if you need proof.

Not going to post it here since it will be removed anyway.
Omar Alharazaad
Spectrum Reborn
#284 - 2014-06-17 18:58:12 UTC
Strike one against the 'Defenseless Popular Front' , omg wtf? Thanks by the way for proving that the inevitable isn't exactly that. Now, for the bears that can't seem to stop screaming over this shite... STFU and HTFU. That will be all.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#285 - 2014-06-17 19:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
GOT IT!!

Freighter Accompaniment and Protection Service [FAPS.]

We at FAPS. take the escort of your precious commodities seriously. Our patented Freighter Accompnient Protection (FAP) process will insure that your freighter reaches its intended destination. By blanketing your freighter in the results of our FAPping, gankers will by stymied in their attempts to do harm to your hard enarned merchandise. Don't trust look alikes or copy cats - we can FAP longer and harder than any of them. Trust your freight the the professionals. Trust us to FAP all over your freighter.

Edit: Assistance would also work.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#286 - 2014-06-17 20:26:57 UTC
Need t2 guns!!

Still 4 down.. and first messages in local from them coming in. This might actually be quite entertaining once I get the skills up to do it more effectivly.
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2014-06-17 20:38:30 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Commandante Caldari wrote:
I just see one issue here CCP should take a look at: bumping.

All Freighters were bumped 200+ clicks off the gate by a Machariel. And this is absurd. Those Freighters have no chance to align and warp off. In the meantime the gankers form up, warp on grid first at warp in range to the Freighter, CONCORD shows up, they warp on top and gank. More CONCORD shows up. This will additionally create lag.

However. This is just my pov. CCP has to look into this because at a special point this kind of gameplay might be an exploit.

Sorry for starting a rage thread from this point Twisted



Yeah but its not. See BUMPING: A Response in C&P for the official line on bumping

You want to align fast and not get ganked? Get an escort and use the legal "exploit" that already exists



Bumping is the only issue I believe that should be looked into.

Even with a escort all you have to do is just bring in a second mach pilot and you are going to get bumped, also as much as I would love to say this is game where you play with other players, it should not be a necessity when it comes to flying a freighter / JF.

If the only way to avoid getting bumped is to use a "legal Loophole" then something is wrong

I honestly have no idea how the mechanics could be changed but what I do not want is to see any kind of official ruling that bumping is not allowed or anything silly like that.

I can understand the frustration when you being bumped as once you received the initial bump you are as good as dead, well it is out of your hands at any rate.



If your flying solo its possible that they may be bumping you towards a warpable object, In that case just warp to it and your free. Fit a DCU and 2 bulkheads, it gives you somewhere in the range of 600k ehp on a freighter.

Your hauling stuff in a freighter, you shouldn't be alone anyway. 3x webs or a bump in the right direction will get you into warp very quickly. Its not unreasonable that capital ships (and freighters are capital ships) should not be flown solo and unguarded.

Check your route though highsec, if a system has alot of kills in it, even in highsec, avoid it. I know it might be 20 extra jumps to go around but hey it will still take less time then letting your freighter afk autopilot the trip.

Jump freighters you have no excuses at all, you can jump to the nearest lowsec system to your destination, land on the gate and jump into highsec. after that just avoid the systems with high kill rates.

Honestly is any of this so hard that people refuse to do it. Freighter pilots want to be killed if they are not doing these things.

Stop complaining that its unfair, or that bumping shouldn't be allowed. It is allowed, CCP said it was, time to adapt.

And before anyone says anything about me being just another ganker, check my killboard. I don't gank people. But I do find gankers to be very useful in punishing the stupid.
Jaxi Wreckful
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#288 - 2014-06-17 20:56:01 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.


<3
NotTheSmartestCookie
Shooting Blues Everyday
Gimme Da Loot
#289 - 2014-06-17 21:03:29 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.



The fire, it has such pretty colors

Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.

Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.

Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping

malcovas Henderson
THoF
#290 - 2014-06-17 21:11:44 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Commandante Caldari wrote:
I just see one issue here CCP should take a look at: bumping.

All Freighters were bumped 200+ clicks off the gate by a Machariel. And this is absurd. Those Freighters have no chance to align and warp off. In the meantime the gankers form up, warp on grid first at warp in range to the Freighter, CONCORD shows up, they warp on top and gank. More CONCORD shows up. This will additionally create lag what might make it hard to save your pod.

However. This is just my pov. CCP has to look into this because at a special point this kind of gameplay might be an exploit.

Sorry for starting a rage thread from this point Twisted
They already have, and it's neither an exploit, or griefing.

GM Karidor wrote:
CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another player’s ship as an exploit. However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.



It can be argued that stopping you from changing locations could be harassment too.

The wording in the quote states "However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment," Trying to warp out is clearly "making an effort" to change locations
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#291 - 2014-06-17 21:12:55 UTC
err, did you miss the whole "how to defend yourself" part of the thread?
it was pretty clear.
Tilly Delnero
Licorne Ventures Ltd.
#292 - 2014-06-17 21:14:54 UTC
Adira Nictor wrote:

If your flying solo its possible that they may be bumping you towards a warpable object, In that case just warp to it and your free. Fit a DCU and 2 bulkheads, it gives you somewhere in the range of 600k ehp on a freighter.

If you can fit a DC on a freighter, then you have legendary electronics skills nobody else in EVE has.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#293 - 2014-06-17 21:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
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On topic, I have flown Freighters to the edge of Null-Sec to supply Low Sec stations, flown Jump Freighters to the deepest parts of Null-Sec to re-supply 'our' wormhole system if that was the easiest way to do so. My trusty Big Ships have seen the corners of New Eden. I have never lost a single one of them.
Oh I'm sure the day will come I do. But till this day the simple rules I fly by work, so who knows.
- Inform yourself on the route you are going to fly. Use the map and any other info source you can lay your hands on.
- Use a scout, preferably two. Yes, also in High-Sec.
- Use a tackler as companion. Two or three webs do wonders on you time to warp.
- 'Force' a few corporation members as escort to tag along in fast locking hard hitting ships, preferably an additional one fitting loads of ECM. (Hey, it's their money too in the hold if you fly for your corporation!)
And yes, some routes take days of planning and preparing.
But hey, what do I know. I'm just a Carebear in an Indy Wormhole corp. (We file our teeth though Twisted)


btw, Thread unlocked.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Winchester Steele
#294 - 2014-06-18 01:19:11 UTC
CCP, nerf loyalanon. CODEdot too stronk.


Also, I think I love you CCP Falcon.

...

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#295 - 2014-06-18 01:31:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.

Some of us like to sell matches and fuel to those who want to watch it burn Evil



This. While also selling replacement freighters and implants to those who have just suffered losses.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Winchester Steele
#296 - 2014-06-18 01:32:41 UTC
How is it that my hauler has flown freighters endlessly back and forth across high-sec for years and NEVER once been ganked? I think this really honestly comes down to PEBCAK* in a vast majority of these ganks. It's really far too easy to avoid these sorts of engagements currently, and if you cannot or will not, well then that is your problem.





* Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard.

...

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#297 - 2014-06-18 01:40:31 UTC
I think is far worse that this thread gets constantly ganked.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#298 - 2014-06-18 01:46:38 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
How is it that my hauler has flown freighters endlessly back and forth across high-sec for years and NEVER once been ganked? I think this really honestly comes down to PEBCAK* in a vast majority of these ganks. It's really far too easy to avoid these sorts of engagements currently, and if you cannot or will not, well then that is your problem.

* Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard.
I'd buy that were it not for incidents like Aufey or burn Jita. Those special occasions where typical common sense and the things that keep you off the killboard 99 times out of 100 just don't work out because someone wants to make your day just a bit more special.

Of course others may just consider that to be the complacency of highsec, and that every freighter should always travel with a full complement of scout, webbers, ECM and other countergank support (Yea hyperbole!), but until the level of activity in those incidents becomes the norm, or even just slightly more common/widespread can you blame them?

And aside from paying the extortion fee, do you think your normal prep would have gotten you through Aufay?
Xaldafax Caerleon
Veritas Theory
#299 - 2014-06-18 01:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Xaldafax Caerleon
From where I stand bumping is an aggressive action and should have some effect in line with that.

If, in real life I walked up to you and kept pushing you I wouldn't get away with it. So why is that true here? Let it happen and just build a solution that lets you get your butt beat for it.

Same thing for ganking... who cares if it happens... but in real life if a terrorist on the FBI wanted list was just sitting at a starbucks watching and deciding who he might jump, sooner or later the police would get him BEFORE he killed someone. Something like this needs to be built around ganking... it is simple... live and die by the sword.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#300 - 2014-06-18 01:55:45 UTC
Xaldafax Caerleon wrote:
From where I stand bumping is an aggressive action and should have some effect in line with that.

If, in real life I walked up to you and kept pushing you I wouldn't get away with it. So why is that true here? Let it happen and just build a solution that lets you get your butt beat for it.

Same thing for ganking... who cares if it happens... but in real life if a terrorist on the FBI wanted list was just sitting at a starbucks watching and deciding who he might jump, sooner or later the police would get him BEFORE he killed someone. Something like this needs to be built around ganking... it is simple... live and die by the sword.


If you'd like to argue for hyper realism, can we have the cops show up twenty minutes after a crime is reported like in real life, instead of with omnipotent space police magic?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.