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Dev blog: Starbase changes for Crius

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Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#281 - 2014-06-19 22:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
someone wrote:
Timed restriction to anchor Control Towers

Newly formed corporations will need to wait 7 days before being able to anchor Starbases. This is to inhibit players from immediately moving Starbase assets to another corporation if under a war declaration.


Please dont do this, we will just be forced to make a lot of 1-alt corps to hop around to to avoid wardecs in the end nothing positive will come of it but it will be a headache for us all.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#282 - 2014-06-19 22:53:00 UTC
What do I need to do to get the maximal result out of array based ore compression (assuming that you go ahead with your current plan)?

What skills, if any, will play a part in ore compression, will it be based off your ore refining skills or is ore compression basically 'anchoring one and youre done"?

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Flay Nardieu
#283 - 2014-06-19 22:59:52 UTC
The only change I have seen regarding S&I involving POS's that makes any sort of sense is the Compression Arrays. The obvious benefit of compressing isotope bearing empire ice into null jumps immediately to mind. Only thing these arrays stomp on are the Rorqual, which even stripped of the feature still has others to offset the loss in the mean time.

As for anchoring I say give a little relief to those who struggle with standings issue open .5 space. A total removal is flat out stupid based on various arguments from different perspectives.

Pretty much everything else POS related seems to be inspired by Wile E. Coyote with equal effectiveness in catching the Roadrunner. (Which is zip)
GiveMeATry
Storm Chasers.
Pandemic Horde
#284 - 2014-06-20 00:37:47 UTC
If you have high faction standings you be receiving 4 to 6 plexes as compensation for your time spent grinding.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#285 - 2014-06-20 02:27:07 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
right mind is going to use mobile laboratories? They are now nothing more than, "Come Shoot Me I Have BPO's Inside".
You have essentially removed Mobile Laboratories from use for all but WH inhabitants.

"Removal of Starbase Assembly Line settings";
Does this mean, anyone with access to the Pos will now have access to any labs that may be inside it?




I can confirm everyone is chomping at the bit for the opportunity to grind hundreds of millions of EHP in highsec so they can find the one ******** industrialist who doesn't know how to use a corp office and is eagerly awaiting the payout for selling those ammo BPOs.

Sorry but what has a corp office got to do with using labs in a pos??
The Dev blog quite clearly states - Jobs can be started remotely but the BPO must be present in the Lab.
You might want to read up, you might just end up being the ******** industrialist who tries to start a job from a corp office, only to find out, YOU CAN"T.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Flay Nardieu
#286 - 2014-06-20 04:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Flay Nardieu
Noticed some are mistaking terms or impending changes:

Some clarification:

Remote Jobs - a job started in any system other than the one where the blueprint physically AND S&I facility resides, (station or POS array/lab)
Remote from Office - the ability to have a blueprint physically in a station office rented to a corporation and use POS arrays in the same corporation's POS or Alliance POS'es that allow member use, only works in the system where BOTH the office AND the POS array located

Remote Jobs will still work post deployment, Remote from Office is being removed entirely.

Best case scenario would be having the blueprints in the Corporate Hangar Array at the POS and arrays/labs could use from there, however I have not seen any mention of this, nor wish to imply that is what will be the case post deployment.

Post deployment stations with S&I facilities will not have limited slots but scaling costs. For manufacturing and research on the corporate level it will require a corporation to have an office at those stations with the blueprint physically there, however if a corporation can not afford to maintain an office (or there is no available offices to rent) it can not use the station's S&I facilities (and likely be forced to set a POS to do any S&I). The office requirement does not apply to individuals.

End of unbiased clarification
---

Opinionated Summation:
While there are many good aspects pending it the deployment, the whole of it will make the use of Starbases(POS) either extremely annoying or very impractical. Quite possibly without exaggerating, gank the smaller industrialists to nigh extinction.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#287 - 2014-06-20 05:09:57 UTC
Civire Desire wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
defenseless tower in a 0.9 packed with arrays is the new thing. the result should be obvious


You mean, POS as pinata? yup...

Much the same way the interceptor changes have made my ratting battleships nothing but a pinata for the roaming interceptor gangs.

(Tin-foil hat warning!) The intent behind it to me is equally obvious . To make those of us who want to make enough ISK to buy a PLEX from the market unable to, in an attempt to force us to pay cash for said PLEX, or go back to subscribing.

Ponder this, CCP, the only reason I can afford to play this game at all is by buying PLEX with in-game currency. If I (and all the others in the same boat) are not able to do so, where then is the demand for the PLEXes that the "l33t PvPers" buy for cash so they can convert them to ISK? Let your economist out of that closet you have him hog-tied and gagged in. And listen to him before you totally destroy your game and livelihood.

If I cannot make ISK, I cannot buy PLEX. And then 5 accounts drop offline, never to create demand again for the $20.00 investment made by wallet warriors. I would not be the first to have done so. I have 3 friends who have logged off in Rorqs, Carriers, and even a Nyx in null-sec space, not caring if it later turned hostile, because they are "so totally done with this game." Those 3 real persons represented 17 accounts.

There are only two reasons I keep playing:
1) Masochism; and
2) The friends I have made here who still play.
Both reasons are rapidly losing their appeal. And my apologies to my friends for feeling this way, but all too many of them sympathize with me on that.




Sorry you're bad at this game. I won't miss you.


Right now with a POS and a single character with 10 slots (Not even the theoretical max of 11), you can afford to pay for a large tower and plex every month.



With another 10 plex left over if you choose not to reinvest your profits. That's not even particularly good rates either, that's just logging on once a day to put the new **** in the oven. It takes no skills besides industry V/production efficiency V and the will to download basic spreadsheeting software or a program like EVE IPH.

If you are unable to afford a plex, you are truly awful at this game. If you bought 5 accounts and you can't manage 5 plex between them you are seriously impaired.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#288 - 2014-06-20 05:14:50 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
right mind is going to use mobile laboratories? They are now nothing more than, "Come Shoot Me I Have BPO's Inside".
You have essentially removed Mobile Laboratories from use for all but WH inhabitants.

"Removal of Starbase Assembly Line settings";
Does this mean, anyone with access to the Pos will now have access to any labs that may be inside it?




I can confirm everyone is chomping at the bit for the opportunity to grind hundreds of millions of EHP in highsec so they can find the one ******** industrialist who doesn't know how to use a corp office and is eagerly awaiting the payout for selling those ammo BPOs.

Sorry but what has a corp office got to do with using labs in a pos??
The Dev blog quite clearly states - Jobs can be started remotely but the BPO must be present in the Lab.
You might want to read up, you might just end up being the ******** industrialist who tries to start a job from a corp office, only to find out, YOU CAN"T.




Because I keep my birth certificate and passport locked in my safe when I'm not travelling. You might carry them on your person whenever you wander into dark alleys at night, but there's a reason people think you're ******* ********.


If you still can't figure out how to mitigate risk to negligible when using a POS, you deserve to lose everything.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#289 - 2014-06-20 05:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Loraine Gess wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
right mind is going to use mobile laboratories? They are now nothing more than, "Come Shoot Me I Have BPO's Inside".
You have essentially removed Mobile Laboratories from use for all but WH inhabitants.

"Removal of Starbase Assembly Line settings";
Does this mean, anyone with access to the Pos will now have access to any labs that may be inside it?




I can confirm everyone is chomping at the bit for the opportunity to grind hundreds of millions of EHP in highsec so they can find the one ******** industrialist who doesn't know how to use a corp office and is eagerly awaiting the payout for selling those ammo BPOs.

Sorry but what has a corp office got to do with using labs in a pos??
The Dev blog quite clearly states - Jobs can be started remotely but the BPO must be present in the Lab.
You might want to read up, you might just end up being the ******** industrialist who tries to start a job from a corp office, only to find out, YOU CAN"T.




Because I keep my birth certificate and passport locked in my safe when I'm not travelling. You might carry them on your person whenever you wander into dark alleys at night, but there's a reason people think you're ******* ********.


If you still can't figure out how to mitigate risk to negligible when using a POS, you deserve to lose everything.

I'm sure now you are just a troll, your previous post about your 12 plex per month with 1 toon and a pos was a hint.
This response confirms it..

Either that or you have never used a pos and therefore have no idea how the coming changes will affect researching in one.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Pic'n dor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#290 - 2014-06-20 06:05:35 UTC
Please no stacking of tens of pos mods... make them upgradable (like iHUBS or whatever)
Please increase BPC run limit on cap size BPC (5run on cap part bpo, that's hardly 12h of jobs..)

COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
Flay Nardieu
#291 - 2014-06-20 07:19:32 UTC
Pic'n dor wrote:
Please no stacking of tens of pos mods... make them upgradable (like iHUBS or whatever)
Please increase BPC run limit on cap size BPC (5run on cap part bpo, that's hardly 12h of jobs..)


I agree max run limits are insanely low. Something not capital level but does show the lack of thought in some limits: Nanite Repair Paste max runs 5, units produced per run 10; print used to exhaustion produces 50 units of product, manufacturing time 4m * 5 runs = 20min, copy time base at 4min

And of course adding scaling to a POS is well dumb, for reasons why read previous posts by myself and others making the argument against it.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#292 - 2014-06-20 10:28:33 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

I'm sure now you are just a troll, your previous post about your 12 plex per month with 1 toon and a pos was a hint.
This response confirms it..

Either that or you have never used a pos and therefore have no idea how the coming changes will affect researching in one.



Average selection of ten of my top BPOs comes out to 1.4m isk/hr per line, running indefinitely since I can spread my product and not flood the markets. If someone else crashes one, two, hell all of those markets I can still tap others, and many many more at lower margins.

Let's do some basic math that you are incapable of doing alone.

1.4m isk per hour per line = 14m isk per hour per character.

There are 24 hours in a day.

There are ~30 days in a month (plex counts for 30d anyway).

That's 10.08b isk. That is 13.8 plexes at 730m each. This is not particularly difficult unless you are completely deficient at math. Hell, you don't even have to be good at math. There are programs that will do the math for you. All you have to do is put the right thing in the oven. Of course you seem too daft to even accomplish that, so I can understand how you would have difficulty earning a single plex per month.



Just to further rub this in your face: Even if you are literally scraping along on ammo BPOs you can get an average of 50k per hour per line... in station slots. That's half a plex per month dumping your ammo directly onto jita and doing what is literally considered peasantry for newbie characters. You are that bad at earning money. Congratulations.




PS: Do you still plan to store your entire BPO collection in a POS when you're using 1% of it? I'd like to siege you post-patch.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#293 - 2014-06-20 12:20:33 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
someone wrote:
Timed restriction to anchor Control Towers

Newly formed corporations will need to wait 7 days before being able to anchor Starbases. This is to inhibit players from immediately moving Starbase assets to another corporation if under a war declaration.


Please dont do this, we will just be forced to make a lot of 1-alt corps to hop around to to avoid wardecs in the end nothing positive will come of it but it will be a headache for us all.

cowards who try to exploit their way out of wars deserve the headache
Rammix
TheMurk
#294 - 2014-06-20 14:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
someone wrote:
Timed restriction to anchor Control Towers

Newly formed corporations will need to wait 7 days before being able to anchor Starbases. This is to inhibit players from immediately moving Starbase assets to another corporation if under a war declaration.


Please dont do this, we will just be forced to make a lot of 1-alt corps to hop around to to avoid wardecs in the end nothing positive will come of it but it will be a headache for us all.

cowards who try to exploit their way out of wars deserve the headache

This. And the main axiom of eve: carebears must suffer.
If some patch lessens suffering of carebears (obviously I mean safety, not UI changes made only for comfort) - they're doing it wrong.

p.s. If a carebear does not accept this as a given and can't stand any risk - he is not the Eve type.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#295 - 2014-06-20 15:59:28 UTC
Man, I can wait to see the earliest set of CCP financials post Sept 2014.

By then, the full damage to the high sec player base will be demonstrated, and high sec players, particularly the high sec casual industrialist, will have made their decisions about this travesty.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#296 - 2014-06-20 16:01:28 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Man, I can wait to see the earliest set of CCP financials post Sept 2014.

By then, the full damage to the high sec player base will be demonstrated, and high sec players, particularly the high sec casual industrialist, will have made their decisions about this travesty.

well you're allegedly the most outraged yet here you are paying to post
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#297 - 2014-06-20 17:15:54 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Man, I can wait to see the earliest set of CCP financials post Sept 2014.

By then, the full damage to the high sec player base will be demonstrated, and high sec players, particularly the high sec casual industrialist, will have made their decisions about this travesty.

well you're allegedly the most outraged yet here you are paying to post

Eve is very cheap entertainment for me... I've paid artists at comic conventions more to draw on paper for an one time deal than what I pay yearly for this account. So if this next expansion is not what I like, I guess I'll get more pictures...
Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
#298 - 2014-06-20 23:16:00 UTC
With Pos'es in hi-sec potentially becoming objectives of wars and wardecs to a much larger extent than presently, it seems sensible that they should be able to generate some good fights. In order to get that, both sides should have means to fight. CCP plans to make it easier for POS owners to participate actively in defending the station, but a true ganker can't have that, can he?

Rammix wrote:
(...) the main axiom of eve: carebears must suffer.
If some patch lessens suffering of carebears (obviously I mean safety, not UI changes made only for comfort) - they're doing it wrong.

p.s. If a carebear does not accept this as a given and can't stand any risk - he is not the Eve type.
(...)
Already too many people live in highsec for years without ever moving anywhere, too many people live in HS in general. And you make it for this people even easier to defend their pos-s (training pos operators becomes too much easier). I think this is stupid.
(...)
tl;dr: This skill change makes HS pos-s overpowered, because: no capitals, not so many medium-sized or big pvp organizations.

Lovely. Ganker tears. "Boo-hooo, the POS can shoot back, CCP, make it so that carebears always lose, it's not fair that they might not lose.". Keep it coming, it is wonderful.

What you are really saing is "I want easy kills, not hard ones". Well, what kind of EVE pilot are you, then? Can't stand a risk? In that case go find some other li'l ol' lady and whack her from behind. If you want a fight, come get a fight.

And Rammix, don't worry, the POS'es will probably be quite vulnerable as it is. There is a parallel thread where these matters are also debated. From the thread mentioned above I have this pretty specific list:
xttz wrote:
Skalle Pande wrote:
xttz wrote:

Starbases used to be a real threat to Dreadnoughts and Carriers. Now they struggle to kill cruisers and frigates.

Now, THAT is worrying. If hi-sec POS'es are going to be wardecc'ed and targetted much more frequently for real economic reasons (as opposed to wanton griefing), and if they are not defendable, it will be bad.
(....)
Please tell me that this is not so? That even if we can't keep our wonderful starbase, we can at least make the attackers bleed? Just a tiny little bit? Please?

Or CCP, you could of course do as mynnna suggested? Give us some means and a reason to defend, when you give people reason to attack? And preferably simultaneously.

You can make terrible attackers bleed, no question. However the moment someone shows up with a fleet showing a modicum of organisation, you may as well not login:

  • Ewar modules can't lock Logistics Cruisers fast enough to be effective, and you'll probably need a fair number of ECM modules manually controlled for this anyway.
  • You need several characters worth of controlled medium guns to effectively damage a battleship, while larger guns require most targets to be heavily webbed in order to track it.
  • Non-laser weapons are really vulnerable to having their ammo run down before an attack by an AFK orbiting frigate that can't be tracked.

The less said about missiles and hybrid weapons the better - two entire systems that are less effective than just flying a Rifter out of the shields and taking on a fleet solo. But they serve as a honeytrap to those who don't know any better, and I can see many new towers falling foul of it.

Having said that, CCP will probably also need to look at the balance regarding towers with lots of hardeners in high-sec. That can push 200mil EHP, and without dreads very few people will want to make a serious attempt on these.

Somehow, I, the carebear, believe goons more than I believe you. But I will surely go for hardeners, not guns, on my own dear little POS, so the skill question really is moot. I think. But admittedly, I haven't tried it yet. And it is much more boring, so preferably CCP would in fact take a good look at balancing all these things, skill requirements included.

Rammix wrote:
The skill "is good for other things" but for those who absolutely don't need those "other things" they should give the option to deny the 5th level of the skill in exchange for skillpoints.

You're whining. Stop it. It's embarrassing and not gonna do you any good. The tears will do, with those you may proceed, pPlease Cool
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#299 - 2014-06-21 10:32:56 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

I'm sure now you are just a troll, your previous post about your 12 plex per month with 1 toon and a pos was a hint.
This response confirms it..

Either that or you have never used a pos and therefore have no idea how the coming changes will affect researching in one.



Average selection of ten of my top BPOs comes out to 1.4m isk/hr per line, running indefinitely since I can spread my product and not flood the markets. If someone else crashes one, two, hell all of those markets I can still tap others, and many many more at lower margins.

Let's do some basic math that you are incapable of doing alone.

1.4m isk per hour per line = 14m isk per hour per character.

There are 24 hours in a day.

There are ~30 days in a month (plex counts for 30d anyway).

That's 10.08b isk. That is 13.8 plexes at 730m each. This is not particularly difficult unless you are completely deficient at math. Hell, you don't even have to be good at math. There are programs that will do the math for you. All you have to do is put the right thing in the oven. Of course you seem too daft to even accomplish that, so I can understand how you would have difficulty earning a single plex per month.



Just to further rub this in your face: Even if you are literally scraping along on ammo BPOs you can get an average of 50k per hour per line... in station slots. That's half a plex per month dumping your ammo directly onto jita and doing what is literally considered peasantry for newbie characters. You are that bad at earning money. Congratulations.




PS: Do you still plan to store your entire BPO collection in a POS when you're using 1% of it? I'd like to siege you post-patch.

You don't know the difference between "Researching" & "Manufacturing" ?
Let me help, Manufacturing - You will have BPC's in a pos. Researching you will have BPO's in a pos.

Manufacturing pos's will be no more threatened than they are now (they will also, depending on where they are, be far less profitable than they are now)
Research pos, that would be one with LABS in it, will be a fine target to go after.

By all means keep living in your fantasy world of 10 bil profit PM per toon . Eve needs dreamers.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#300 - 2014-06-21 12:50:36 UTC
Delicious themepark carebear tears.

The Tears Must Flow