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External Station Spinning / External Station View while docked
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Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#21 - 2014-06-14 17:57:00 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Yes, I wasn't trying to disagree per-se, just urging people to test it BEFORE they are trapped Smile



This is Wisdom right here folks. Take precautions before you commit to actions which can put your ship at risk.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-06-14 17:58:17 UTC
It's served me well.

I'm +1 to the original idea because it's pure quality of life.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-06-14 18:12:54 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Undock.

I'm sorry. You seem to not understand how station docking works. Fortunately, newbies can now benefit from Eve University's youtube videos to learn about these.

Additionally, unlike single player games, Eve Online is a multiplayer game that requires a network connection. Many new players do not realize that this can mean that there is a certain "lag" time that occurs between a command given on their computer (the client) and the big, central computer (server) that coordinates with the rest of the other players. So, when you issue a command, there may be several seconds before you get a response from a server. This means that, when undocking, you may actually be in space for several seconds before your computer updates, meaning you have left the station's docking ring before you have the ability to do anything about it. As you continue your career in this game and explore beyond Caldari space, you will eventually run into this phenomenon. Be alert, and be prepared.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-06-14 18:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
That's very rare (lag issues and a ship fast enough) and you can still use instant undocks - the only time I've EVER seen anything get caught there was with intys with 6000+ scan res and there comes a point where preparation should pay off (and even then it's down to server ticks)

Bottom line is know your circumstances before kicking over the hornets nest.

But I still support the OP.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-06-14 18:21:09 UTC
afkalt wrote:
That's very rare and you can still use instant undocks - the only time I've EVER seen anything get caught there was with intys with 6000+ scan res and there comes a point where preparat

As you continue your career in Eve Online, you will eventually leave the cradle of High Security space, cross the low-sec danger zone, and delve into an area of space known as 0.0. It is important that, before you do so, you learn of the mechanics of this space. For instance, in 0.0, there is a deployable that can be used called a warp interdiction bubble. These bubbles will prevent you from warping, even if aligned and at speed, unless you are in an interceptor or a specially equipped Tech 3 ships (I do not recommend new players go for a Tech 3 ship until they have a firm grasp of game mechanics and are willing to lose SP when their ships are destroyed, so that will have to be a topic for another day).
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#26 - 2014-06-14 18:25:35 UTC
30 seconds of invulnerability. Are you really lagging for 30 seconds when you undock? You can't be targeted, you can't be pointed, you can't be SB'd. You are completely invulnerable. If you don't have a bookmark after you get kicked too far away from the station, that is your fault.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-06-14 18:30:54 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
afkalt wrote:
That's very rare and you can still use instant undocks - the only time I've EVER seen anything get caught there was with intys with 6000+ scan res and there comes a point where preparat

As you continue your career in Eve Online, you will eventually leave the cradle of High Security space, cross the low-sec danger zone, and delve into an area of space known as 0.0. It is important that, before you do so, you learn of the mechanics of this space. For instance, in 0.0, there is a deployable that can be used called a warp interdiction bubble. These bubbles will prevent you from warping, even if aligned and at speed, unless you are in an interceptor or a specially equipped Tech 3 ships (I do not recommend new players go for a Tech 3 ship until they have a firm grasp of game mechanics and are willing to lose SP when their ships are destroyed, so that will have to be a topic for another day).


I already live in 0.0.

The number of times I've died at the undock is 0.0

It's not luck. It's preparation, nothing more.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-06-14 18:32:42 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
30 seconds of invulnerability. Are you really lagging for 30 seconds when you undock? You can't be targeted, you can't be pointed, you can't be SB'd. You are completely invulnerable. If you don't have a bookmark after you get kicked too far away from the station, that is your fault.

Look, you've got your carebear, high-sec view of the game. I get that. But there is more to Eve than avoiding WTs in Jita. In other areas of space, other rules apply where people can prevent you from warping. This was the scenario that you gave your "undock" advice for. If that was your plan, it could very well have resulted in a lost ship.

Instead, as I understand 0.0 and knew what I was getting in to, I had to spend time watching the locals, looking at their behavior, seeing what ships they were, who was active, where they warped to when coming to my target station, and on top of that I had to do my business in the station and GTFO as quickly as possible so my intel on the exterior did not become stale. I did it successfully. But, unlike your assertion, this was not effortless or nearly so.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-06-14 18:34:16 UTC
afkalt wrote:
It's not luck. It's preparation, nothing more.

You seem to be under the impression that I do not understand preparation. Keep in mind, you are the one supporting a change that would eliminate the need to prepare for these eventualities, not me. Direct your remarks to a mirror.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-06-14 18:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
I'm supporting a quality of life change that should do nothing to 99% of players. It's so damned trivial to evade a station camp today, there should be no net harm in this option.


Edit: You dont even need an alt account. You can simply utilise the spare slots on your current account.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-06-14 18:44:46 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I'm supporting a quality of life change that should do nothing to 99% of players. It's so damned trivial to evade a station camp today, there should be no net harm in this option.

Obviously, our definition of "trivial" is different.
afkalt wrote:
Edit: You dont even need an alt account. You can simply utilise the spare slots on your current account.

You can't have two characters from the same account logged in at the same time. Really, this is so basic. Do you even play the game?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-06-14 18:47:42 UTC
Because of course, bubbles can be anchored, remote sebo'd inty/nados can be quickly deployed. All in the time it takes to reload your client if the coast is showing clear to your alt. Do you play where you say you do?

Start thinking outside the box, die less Blink
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-06-14 18:54:42 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Because of course, bubbles can be anchored, remote sebo'd inty/nados can be quickly deployed. All in the time it takes to reload your client if the coast is showing clear to your alt.

Do you know what a HIC is?

OK, we've now officially established that you are ignorant of EVE's mechanics. I suggest you watch that Eve University video in full. Lots of good stuff there.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#34 - 2014-06-14 18:55:30 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
30 seconds of invulnerability. Are you really lagging for 30 seconds when you undock? You can't be targeted, you can't be pointed, you can't be SB'd. You are completely invulnerable. If you don't have a bookmark after you get kicked too far away from the station, that is your fault.

Look, you've got your carebear, high-sec view of the game. I get that. But there is more to Eve than avoiding WTs in Jita. In other areas of space, other rules apply where people can prevent you from warping. This was the scenario that you gave your "undock" advice for. If that was your plan, it could very well have resulted in a lost ship.

Instead, as I understand 0.0 and knew what I was getting in to, I had to spend time watching the locals, looking at their behavior, seeing what ships they were, who was active, where they warped to when coming to my target station, and on top of that I had to do my business in the station and GTFO as quickly as possible so my intel on the exterior did not become stale. I did it successfully. But, unlike your assertion, this was not effortless or nearly so.



I haven't done anything in high sec except sell loot and travel through for months, but I appreciate the concern for my playstyle. Keep an eye on local/overview, and give a little wave when our paths finally cross in that f*ckton of null-space, wormholes, or low sec. There are no doors closed to me.

This new player seems to really like his T3's, and may not care about the SP loss.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-06-14 18:58:30 UTC
Do you know what D-scan is? It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to see what's about in space with an alt, even one from the same account and quickly re-swap if the coast is clear - or not, if it is not clear.

Frankly I'm surprised you've not yet mentioned disco battleships at the undock in the straws you're clutching at to try and imply that undocking and living is somehow...hard.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-06-14 19:09:15 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Do you know what D-scan is?

I do indeed. There's a HIC somewhere in space. Great. And? It may be useful for telling you that the HIC is warping to your position, but that's not really leaving you much time to log off and log back on if that's your window. Especially if you're in a small system, and so have to cut your range to nothing to tell.

Besides, I was told that there was an effortless way to do this. Now you're saying that I need to buy a Plex and train up an alt so that it can safely navigate 0.0, and drag it along with me, so I can do a half-*** job with a greater time displacement between intel and action than what I do currently. Yeah, there's a reason you post with an alt account, all right.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-06-14 19:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
So if there is a HIC risk AND your connection is so crappy you cant stop AND it's a kick out station. Then don't undock. It's not hard.

No need to train the alt, just...be sensible with it.


In your convoluted mission to find a way that you might not be able to undock and peek, it's still perfectly doable. So we've covered the 1%. Now for the rest of the 99% Bohneik Itohn's solution is just fine. It's not black magic, it is common sense and about the farthest thing from hard I can think of in Eve.


God only knows how you navigate gates if you have this much trouble at stations.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#38 - 2014-06-14 19:25:38 UTC
All of this boils down to one person wanting undocking to be 100% risk free in their blue space.

Please refer to Eve Uni, which you were so kind to provide me a link to, and browse a bit. Since they are such a reliable source of information about Eve Online for you I'm sure you'll be interested in what they have to say about undocking, and whether or not it is or should be risk free.

Your source material should be a good enough reference for you, right?

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-06-14 19:27:15 UTC
afkalt wrote:
So if there is a HIC risk AND your connection is so crappy you cant stop AND it's a kick out station. Then don't undock. It's not hard.

You don't need a crappy connection to be kicked out before you gain control of your ship. And again, this statement forgets what it is arguing for.
afkalt wrote:
No need to train the alt, just...be sensible with it.

At least double transit time, not including the time it takes to somehow be sensible while jumping blind into systems without being able to use a cloaking device, having poor maneuverability, poor speed (Can you even use afterburners since the skill point change? Haven't made a new one to check), no warp interdiction nullifier... yeah. You don't need to train at all. And for a lesser chance of success than if you didn't use it at all. Effortless!
afkalt wrote:
In your convoluted mission to find a way that you might not be able to undock and peek

I chose a scenario that I was in from yesterday, and it's one I've been in many, many times. Hardly convoluted.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-06-14 19:28:14 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
All of this boils down to one person wanting undocking to be 100% risk free in their blue space.

I count a lot of people here wanting undocking to be 100% risk free, including you. I'm the one arguing against it, remember?
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