Player Features and Ideas Discussion

TL;DR: Make several tiers of exploration sites, with increasing risk/reward, to allow for progression within the profession of exploration.

With the previous two expansions CCP has done an excellent job making exploration an activity obtainable to the masses. Scanning with probes has been dramatically simplified; the once laborious task of positioning probes is much quicker and less tedious. The new Sisters of EVE ships and mid-slot scanning modules has allowed for exploration to evolve beyond the confines of covert ops frigates.

Unfortunately the activities associated with exploration have only expanded minimally, and the profession of being an explorer is still quite limited. I would like to see a range of exploration sites, with a range of risk/reward, to fill-in the middle ground between Data/Relic and DED sites.

Ideas for new exploration sites:

• Found using probes and scanning. Some may be visible using the ship’s onboard scanner (like Data/Relic sites are now), but higher tier sites should require the use of scan probes for discovery (would not be detected using the onboard scanner or displayed as “cosmic signature” until scanned by a probe).


• Higher tier sites are more difficult to scan, requiring better skills and/or increasingly specialized ships. Highest tier sites should challenge even the most skills characters, requiring a specialized scanning ship and/or character (aka. implants).


• Higher tier sites are more difficult to complete, requiring multiple people and/or increasingly specialized ships and skills.


• With increased risks, come increased rewards.


• New loot, similar to the overseer effects in DED sites, with an NPC seeded market that is independent from salvage/invention materials (and the associated production/markets). This loot would allow for the adjusting of rewards based on risk without impacting other aspects of the game by increasing/decreasing supply. This could also be handled by something similar to the newly released Guristas Data Sequences, allowing for another tier of risk/rewards for an adventurous explorer. Note: Rewards below are based on Null site difficulties for each tier, as that’s what I’m most familiar with now.

Tier 1 Exploration Sites:

• Found in all areas of space; risk/reward scaled based on true sec.
• No combat readiness required to complete site (e.g. current Data/Relic sites).
• All loot acquired via hacking of cans.


• Reward: 10-20m ISK of salvage/invention materials per site and 10-20m ISK of “other loot” depending on intra-tier difficulty.

Tier 2 Exploration Sites:

• Found in all areas of space; risk/reward scaled based on true sec.
• Minimal level of combat readiness required (e.g. Ghost Sites or old Radar/Mag sites).
• All loot acquired via hacking of cans.


• Reward:10-20m ISK of salvage/invention materials per site and 30-50m ISK of “other loot” depending on intra-tier difficulty.

Tier 3 Exploration Sites:

• Found in Low, Null, and WH areas of space; Risk/reward scaled based on true sec.
• Scan probes required for discovery, not displayed using onboard ship scanner.
• Medium level of combat readiness required (e.g. single room from 4/10 DED level).
• All loot acquired via hacking of cans, but requires that “defending” rats have been eliminated before cans can be looted.


• Reward:20m ISK of salvage/invention materials per site and 40-60m ISK of “other loot” depending on intra-tier difficulty. Extremely small chance for faction module/BPC drops (similar value to equivalent DED level).

Tier 4 Exploration Sites:

• Found in Null and WH areas of space.
• Scan probes required for discovery, not displayed using onboard ship scanner.
• High level of combat readiness required (e.g. single room from 6/10 DED level).
• Most loot acquired via hacking of cans, but requires that “defending” rats have been eliminated before cans can be looted. Chance for faction drops found on faction rat spawned (with very small chance) after successfully hacking all cans in the site.


• Reward: 20m ISK of salvage/invention materials per site and 50-80m ISK of “other loot” depending on intra-tier difficulty. Small chance for faction module/BPC drops (similar value to equivalent DED level).

Tier 5 Exploration Sites:

• Found in WH areas of space.
• Scan probes required for discovery, not displayed using onboard ship scanner.
• High level of combat readiness required (e.g. single room from 8/10 DED level).
• Most loot acquired via hacking of cans, but requires that “defending” rats have been eliminated before cans can be looted. Chance for faction drops found on faction rat spawned (with small chance) after successfully hacking all cans in the site.


• Reward: I have no experience with loot values from sites in wormhole space, so will not give numbers for Tier 5 sites, but would guess they would be 125% the current data/relic site reward on the high side of the range. There would also be a greater chance for a faction (or sleeper equivalent) spawn to drop more valuable loot.

There should, randomly, be rats in some of them. Scaled/faction appropriately across all of k-space.

Yes.

I'll add: They should make the higher tier sites more difficult to scan down by making them appear much further away from the orbital planes. If they simply make it hard to get a lock on it, it just becomes a matter of skill training, which is pretty bleh

While responding to another thread about data/relic sites, it occurred to me that there might be a benefit to having loot with larger volumes (m3). While I prefer relic sites due to the smaller salvage materials... as it allows me to hit multiple sites before having to unload... larger items (like some of the materials found in the current data sites) would reward those who are doing exploration closer to home.

Idea: What if higher tier sites (Tier 2 and 3?) had other sorts of rewards, but to get maximum reward would require moving larger volumes of materials? The loot would be of sufficient value to warrant risking a larger ship, but of volume that it couldn't be moved efficiently with a frig/cruiser. A good analogy would be the occasional Hauler spawns when belt ratting, but in this case a hacking can that would unlock a large volume cargo of loot.

This would another dynamic to the, often solo, profession... I know I'd need to phone a friend for help. It could also give a benefit for those who utilize the space they live in for production, rather than importing/exporting, depending on the type of loot (materials, parts, etc.) that would make-up the loot.

Exploration sites added that require exploration and scanning to find are a good idea.
There really is no need to add rats and things shooting you or blowing things up in your face for them to be interesting though.
A simple scanning and discovery mechanic, with a further exploration challange, ie "the second site is in a system adjoining pimbeka" go there find it scan it down and explore that chain of referrals.

A treasure hunt if you will.

Shooting stuff is not every explorers dream. And for god's sake don't escalate them into different security systems ie hs>> ls>>null.
If people wanted to explore null they would be there already.

You can lead a horse to water, shoot it in the kneecaps,tie it down and force it's head in the river and it still will not drink........

It was pointed out in another thread that there are already some higher tier hacking sites available in game.

Yesterday was the first time I’ve ran a H-PA Crew Blue Pill Production Facility and it was fun, despite watching an active/speed tanked Tengu melt in minutes to neuting towers and web/scram/jamming rats.

I felt the amount and difficulty of the rats would be on-par for a null sec Tier 3 site (or maybe Tier 4 with the perfect storm of neut/web/scram/jam). The hacking difficulty was similar to data/relic sites, but being able to fail many times made it a much easier (cans didn’t exploded after two failures).

So, maybe use these sites as the model for Tier 3 sites... removing one of the four obstacles (neut/web/scram/jam) and making failed hacking more a factor (two fails = boom).

With the introduction of mobile depots the need for an all-in-one Frankenstein-fit ship have become far lower. I run sites in a Tengu... scan, hack, and combat... zero drones. Yes, I only have to deal with Guristas (so doesn't necessarily fit the "handles any faction" request), but I'm sure a fit could be produced with the various T3 combinations available. The SOE cruiser might also be a good choice, but I've not looked into it too much (I prefer to have the option of switching subsystems on a T3).



I think the rats, even only a few, creates a situation where people have to fly something combat capable. That small change would require explorers risk ships larger than a basic frigate or cov ops... and that alone would be enough to create a second tier of sites that would have higher rewards. But they shouldn't replace all the sites... there should still be a first tier of sites like the ones that currently exist. This is something that has already been incorporated into the Ghost Sites, and I like it.

My hope being that explorers would have to make a choice... fly a frig and only be able to do tier 1 sites, or risk more to get more ISK in tier 2 sites (and above). The time required to kill the rats for tier 2 sites would be trivial in the time/reward ratio. It just creates an "activation energy" that dictates what is required for the increased rewards.


I would love additional ways to do what you describe. I agree fully that just adding more and more rats at each tier is not the answer. I think the addition of something combat related (rats, exploding cans, etc.) is a good first step. Personally I really like the exploding cans in Ghost Sites (5k dmg on a single failed hacking attempt) as it still allows someone to attempt the site in a frig/cov ops, but they better get it right... or else pop.

I guess my main goal is to have levels/progression to data/relic sites. Each level has additional risk and reward. How those levels are implemented (what risk? what reward?) is secondary. Rats are one option, but as you say... other things would be great too.

First let me just say.... No acceleration gate on WH sites... You should've run your own intel before running sites in a WH and determined if the locals were active or not. You also should not be in those sites without paying constant attention to whether the locals wake up or not. Pay attention to D-scan and the grid and you won't get killed.

But anyways...

Legion is my current ship of choice and I used to use the Stratios. The Legion gets shut down hard by TD so Blood and Sansha sites become impossible. The Stratios doesn't have the EHP to do 0.0 combat sites without some epic kiting, in my opinion. Possible to do some of them, but not all of them, and it takes forever. Fantastic ship for low sec and high sec though.

Almost every ship I have has a mobile depot and some alternative equipment, with the exception of some like my Slicers which simply don't have the cargo space for them.

I won't act like I know what I'm talking about because I don't fly one, but I imagine the amount of sensor damps Serpentis use in their DED sites and some of the anomalies would brick the Tengu just as badly as TD does the Legion. You'd be still be able to kill stuff, it'd just take 3 to 4 times as long because you'd be damped down to about 6 or 7km range the entire time.

Always loved CCP's logic of putting E-war on damn near every rat in these sites, so that you can't just focus them down and move on with your life. Let's try not to give them a reason to put that crap in data and relic sites also.

I'd like to see some interesting things done with hacking, starting with getting rid of the lousy maze mini-game in place of something more interesting like hacking that requires the acquisition of quality scripts, the use of specific scripts for different situations and or levels of skill, a matching game that moves continually so that you have to take your attention away from D-scan, the ability to drop cloak and immediately activate a hacking module near a ship that is already hacking to hostile-hack their ship and attempt to shut down crucial systems in a head-to-head match in the first few seconds of PvP while making yourself vulnerable to the same attack, etc....

There are dozens of things CCP could do to make hacking better. There have been superb hacking mechanics that're fun and engaging in video games since the 80's. We'll never see them in Eve Online though. I could lay details down for half a dozen different sets of mechanics, but I'd just be wasting my time because CCP is in no way motivated to make a big change to the system when there are so many people farming exploration sites that don't want anything changed because they'd rather not have to think about what they're doing.