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Ship Insurance Idea

First post
Author
Elana Apgar
Hateful Intent
Hostile Intervention
#1 - 2014-06-13 01:26:33 UTC
Anyone else notice how messed up the ship insurance program is? It seems like it's gotten worse over the past 12 months. It's as bad as a Jita Scam.

So, what's wrong with the system- not even getting into T2 or T3 ships.

For example: I just built out an augoror for a low sec roam. The hull cost around 8 million and change. For platinum insurance it's 1.1 million ISk. That pays out 3.7 million ISK. If this were based on mineral price, it should pay out roughly 8 million ISK. This is seriously broken.

I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3.

Fixing the insurance program might also cause people to be less risk adverse and that would bring more death and destruction to New Eden.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-06-13 01:34:24 UTC
Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.

I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive
iu'ra
Corporate Tax Avoidance LLC
Patchwork Freelancers
#3 - 2014-06-13 02:11:25 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.

I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive



This would be the best way to do it while also taking a some what realistic approach. I'm not sure how it would be done but if you could have players control insurance that would be an interesting thing so long as the NPC insurance isn't removed
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-06-13 10:45:54 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.

I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive


As some one who is terrible, I must say that I hate your idea. I consider my ship to be the cost of undocking and buy insurance as a bonus discount... sort of like a Costco membership.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-06-13 10:49:05 UTC
Elana Apgar wrote:
Anyone else notice how messed up the ship insurance program is? It seems like it's gotten worse over the past 12 months. It's as bad as a Jita Scam.

So, what's wrong with the system- not even getting into T2 or T3 ships.

For example: I just built out an augoror for a low sec roam. The hull cost around 8 million and change. For platinum insurance it's 1.1 million ISk. That pays out 3.7 million ISK. If this were based on mineral price, it should pay out roughly 8 million ISK. This is seriously broken.

I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3.

Fixing the insurance program might also cause people to be less risk adverse and that would bring more death and destruction to New Eden.


Your idea is also bad. If the insurace payout was higher than production cost (near market value, for instance) then people would just make ships, insure them and self destruct them in bulk to make isk. Bad for the economy.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-06-13 12:41:57 UTC
i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-06-13 12:50:34 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.

I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive


I can afford to lose a hundred ships and still fly about. I am also more likely to survive, since I've spent years in this game. Meanwhile, a new pilot will not have much isk and is also more likely to lose ships to harmless mistakes. There's a reason best insurance is given for T1 ships.

Daniel Plain wrote:
i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.


Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-06-13 13:14:54 UTC
Quote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.


Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about.


in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-06-13 13:51:34 UTC
personally i think the insurence is currently this way because the extra mats arent included so coming crius im interested in how it will effect it. I havent done spreadsheet work on it so my impression might be wrong.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2014-06-13 16:29:15 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Quote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.


Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about.


in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly.


People would not fly T2 if the loss of a T1 matter enough for them to appreciate the insurance payout. The people most affected by insurance payout are people who would not have the money to risk T2 hulls anyway.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-06-13 17:48:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Quote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.


Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about.


in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly.


People would not fly T2 if the loss of a T1 matter enough for them to appreciate the insurance payout. The people most affected by insurance payout are people who would not have the money to risk T2 hulls anyway.

because as we all know, every single T2 hull is more expensive than every single T1 hull.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#12 - 2014-06-13 19:05:26 UTC
The issue with it is the recent ship changes over the past couple years.

They changed the ships and minerals needed on lots of them.
They didn't update the issurance to match the changes.
It's just a big over sight on CCP's part.

Your idea could manipulate the market badly and print free isk if you had a large enough bank roll.
Think of what a large alliance could pull off if your system went into effect. (( It's ugly ))

You'd be better off asking CCP to update the insurance numbers to the new ship changes in the idea and discussion forum.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-06-13 19:06:57 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Quote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.


Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about.


in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly.


No, insurance gets people into fleets. If there was none, you would't have a third of the fights you have today.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2014-06-13 19:50:58 UTC
If you need insurance to get into fleets you're terrible.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-06-13 20:02:27 UTC
We need a meme with the progressive insurance lady for this thread.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-06-14 08:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Elana Apgar wrote:
I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3.


Ship cost now: x, insurance payout 0.9x
Ship price plummets to 0.5x in 2 months because more on market (Prospect anyone?).
Self destruct, get paid more than the ship is worth.

How's this a good idea?
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#17 - 2014-06-14 10:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Holland
Elana Apgar wrote:
For example: I just built out an augoror for a low sec roam. The hull cost around 8 million and change. For platinum insurance it's 1.1 million ISk. That pays out 3.7 million ISK. If this were based on mineral price, it should pay out roughly 8 million ISK. This is seriously broken.

The Auguror was, until recently, a Tier 1 Cruiser. As such it cost significantly less to manufacture. The changes in Tiericide drastically increased the materials needed to build the ship and the insurance costs simply haven't caught up yet - it's also possible that the insurance calculation doesn't take the extra materials into account, but they're going away soon too.
Of course the object of insurance is not to cover the cost of the ship but to make losses less painful for new players who might otherwise be crippled by them so the value should only start to get really close to market prices on T1 frigates (and perhaps destroyers).


Edit:
Now with added Dev Confirmation Blink
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#18 - 2014-06-14 10:28:45 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Elana Apgar wrote:
I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3.


Ship cost now: x, insurance payout 0.9x
Ship price plummets to 0.5x in 2 months because more on market (Prospect anyone?).
Self destruct, get paid more than the ship is worth.

How's this a good idea?



good for making money. Back in the days of insurance fraud this made a few jsk for some. Know I miss this sometimes...


But this was why ccp fixed this. t1 (vanilla t1 that is) is semi worth insuring, t2 and t3 has never been worth insuring (even in days of fraud they weren't).
Shelom Severasse
Project Omega Industries
Evictus.
#19 - 2014-06-14 11:23:22 UTC
what about insurance (the max level, what is it, plat?) covers up to 90% of the estimated cost of ONLY the hull.

insurance costs increase proportionally at a constant rate to how often you lose ships in a month. -> every ship loss increases insurance cost by, say, 5%, and then is reset at the beginning of each month (cuz spaceshipz insurance companies are nice like that).

however, this cost increase will be capped at and additional 60%

so the numbers would look something like this:
if you have a perfect flying record and your ship is worth 10m (just the hull), you insure it by purchasing 1m of insurance (not that these numbers are exact or anything, just trying to make math easy for me lol) , and soon after it is destroyed. you get a payout of 9m.
now your insurance costs are increased by 5%, and you buy another 10m ship (just the hull), insure it, but now you must pay 1,050,000 isk for the same level of insurance. then you get blown up again cuz you decided to go to null and ran into a bubble camp, the payout is still 90%, so you get 9m back.

rinse wash repeat

then ccp can decide if they want a flat rate or compounding.
flat would give you a cost of 1,100,000 to re-insure for your third 10m ship and compounding would give you a cost of 1,102,500
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-06-14 17:03:32 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
If you need insurance to get into fleets you're terrible.


Not get into fleets. Get PEOPLE into fleets.
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