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[proposal] proper overview settings (new player experience)
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#1 - 2014-06-11 21:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
so i am in FW while being outaw. In average i am agressed once every roam from a friendly noob who didn't have the OV set up "correctly". I simply don't want to explain them every single time how to fix it (after usually contracting their stuff from the wreck back).

It makes me feel bad for having to kill them, It makes them feel bad after they realized that the first thing they did after joining FW was to shoot at a friendly. It wastes everybodies time.

The OV default is horrible. The priorities are simple wrong (not only the sec status settings). If CCP cares about NPE give noobs a proper overview default. And don't tell me that everybody has his overview completely different. I bet that 90% of all in pvp involved players have the OV priorities sorted very similarly. You can even see it from the fact how popular those overview packs are. Since they work for almost everyone.

Such fixes improve NPE more than freaking tooltips. Its not rocket science.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-06-11 23:17:27 UTC
There is no right or wrong, only awesome or crap depending on what you're doing. For example, I have 14 different overview setups because there is no one size fits all.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#3 - 2014-06-11 23:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Mallak Azaria wrote:
There is no right or wrong, only awesome or crap depending on what you're doing. For example, I have 14 different overview setups because there is no one size fits all.


well i disagree. i think you can find a setting which is a good default for most use cases. If you are a FC or in a fleet with 400 others you will modify it of course, if you are mining you will add rocks. The current setting is wrong, not bad, the priorities how it sorts standings, sec status, militia highlighting and crimewatch flags does not make sense. If all you do is flying around in nullsec you won't see most of it since you don't even have crimewatch, but noobs are not spawned in null.

not to mention that you have 1 priority setting how players are highlighted in your overview, not 14. You might have different bracket profiles or tabs, but thats not even the point of my post.

the first thing what people told you as you joined goons was probably to fix your overview with a link to a guide.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-06-12 03:00:58 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
not to mention that you have 1 priority setting how players are highlighted in your overview, not 14. You might have different bracket profiles or tabs, but thats not even the point of my post.

the first thing what people told you as you joined goons was probably to fix your overview with a link to a guide.


No, I literally have 14 different overview setups which can be switched in & out with a couple of button presses. I only use 3 seperate bracket profiles. The overview is far more customizable than you seem to be willing to believe & I stand by my original point of there being no single correct setup.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#5 - 2014-06-12 03:57:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
not to mention that you have 1 priority setting how players are highlighted in your overview, not 14. You might have different bracket profiles or tabs, but thats not even the point of my post.

the first thing what people told you as you joined goons was probably to fix your overview with a link to a guide.


No, I literally have 14 different overview setups which can be switched in & out with a couple of button presses. I only use 3 seperate bracket profiles. The overview is far more customizable than you seem to be willing to believe & I stand by my original point of there being no single correct setup.


This thread is not about finding the correct setup its about a good default. Nobody wants to take your 14 profiles from your client.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-06-12 20:41:38 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
not to mention that you have 1 priority setting how players are highlighted in your overview, not 14. You might have different bracket profiles or tabs, but thats not even the point of my post.

the first thing what people told you as you joined goons was probably to fix your overview with a link to a guide.


No, I literally have 14 different overview setups which can be switched in & out with a couple of button presses. I only use 3 seperate bracket profiles. The overview is far more customizable than you seem to be willing to believe & I stand by my original point of there being no single correct setup.


This thread is not about finding the correct setup its about a good default. Nobody wants to take your 14 profiles from your client.


Ok, instead of saying 'proper overview setup', you could perhaps provide an example of a proper setup for CCP to look at. I'm sure out of the limitless variations that you can find at least one proper setup that caters to anything a new player might find themselves doing.

What I'd actually like to see is a tutorial module that describes how the overview can be modified to suit peoples needs.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#7 - 2014-06-12 21:44:10 UTC
suspect, criminal, low sec status, outlaw should all have lower priority than in your corporation/alliance, militia etc
pilot set custom positive standings should be above outlaw/suspect/criminal/low sec status but below LET
pilot set custom negative standings should be below outlaw/suspect/criminal

those are just a few examples after looking at a fresh char on the test server. And its only the priority setting on the appearance tab.

velocity for example is a column which would not hurt to ad as default. Since for a new player its hard enough to see what is moving and what is not.


and eve has/had a tutorial section which explained the overview and even forced you to add a tab and a mission object to the overview. I could imagine its no longer there to increase the new player retention of the first 20mins.

Configuring the settings of a table is not what you want to do when you are new to a spaceship game. If you play it for a month you might want to customize it, but you should not be given bad defaults when you start. Typical new player activities like trying out FW should not start with you firering at friendlies because the game displays them in blinking red.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-06-12 22:24:02 UTC
The problem itself lay with the way the tutorial is presented in the first place. Instead of shoving the whole thing in someones face, perhaps it could show the very basic principles of moving around in the game & allow people to choose extra modules of their own free will.

As for the standings priorities, I respectfully disagree that the ones you have laid out are the only correct ones.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#9 - 2014-06-12 22:57:42 UTC
Your corpmates/FW mates should not display as outlaws just to pick one issue of the current default. Since thats not what you care about. Crimewatch should not overwrite positive standings otherwise you will shoot friendlies earlier or later while LET should stay at top priority. And keep in mind there are distinct settings for the background and for the icon. So in controversal cases you could have different settings for both. the default has identical setting for both.

And if you disagree then please say why. Noobs don't know what those flags are, not to mention when they occur. For that exact reason good default are needed till they know what they are doing.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-06-13 05:33:03 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
And if you disagree then please say why.


I already have, please refer to earlier posts.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-06-13 06:54:27 UTC
I think that since the default overview hasn't been touched for a long time except to add new ship types, it's plausible there's room for improvement, and I don't see a reason not to have a review of the default settings to ensure they're useful to a newbie

Mallak Azaria wrote:
What I'd actually like to see is a tutorial module that describes how the overview can be modified to suit peoples needs.


I think it might be outside the bounds of the tutorial, but an visible and easily accessible resource'd be great
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#12 - 2014-06-13 21:07:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Benny Ohu wrote:
I think that since the default overview hasn't been touched for a long time except to add new ship types, it's plausible there's room for improvement, and I don't see a reason not to have a review of the default settings to ensure they're useful to a newbie


yeah exactly. Esp since it is not much work for CCP to tweak the default setting and it has good potential to spare noobs a lot of trouble in the beginning.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2014-06-14 18:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
You know what would be funny?

If CCP knows and wants to do this for the reasons stated in this thread but cannot... because doing so would reset the overviews of every single person in EVE... and the DEVs still have not figured out how to enable people to save every part of their overview settings because it is running on ancient code from the times of the Elder Gods... and people get really pissy about their overview settings (it took me 2 goddamn hours to set it up just right!!!!).


Hey... based on what many know about CCP's coding, this is entirely plausible!

How did you Veterans start?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-06-14 19:13:16 UTC
that doesn't sound funny Straight
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#15 - 2014-06-14 19:20:39 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
that doesn't sound funny Straight

its not supposed to sound funny.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2014-06-14 21:08:03 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
that doesn't sound funny Straight

its not supposed to sound funny.

That's the joke.

How did you Veterans start?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#17 - 2014-06-28 00:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
had to kill TWO friendlies today and spent after that 30minutes explaining them how to fix the overview since the CCP given defaults are unusable. Its all unnecessary and not fun for anybody involved, esp the noob.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#18 - 2014-07-02 16:34:26 UTC
Oh please, anybody who says overview defaults are ok lives in frakking denial. It's frakking torture to set it back when your client decides to go fubar and resets itself to fresh install state.

And I suspect Shah might not be far from truth about reasons why generally most important part of in-space UI is still neglected.

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Nathaniel Raynaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-07-02 21:11:41 UTC
considering that the overview is the most important thing needed to figure out just what the heck is going on around you, improving its default settings would definitely do something to ameliorate the steep learning newbie learning cliff that eve is so infamous for. even pretty basic whitebread setups like the recommended eve uni ones require you to spend a fair amount of time reorganizing a system that could just be functional from the get-go.

it took me five days of gameplay to figure out that clicking on things to figure out what they were wasn't an integral part of the eve experience. this is probably not an isolated experience.

basically; this is good stuff, op
Trosh Aumer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-07-17 20:23:30 UTC
Agree.
I also would love to be able to group things with the overview.. like a "folder" so you could plop things like wrecks or drones in it, so you wouldn't have to change or create tabs for them. Just mouse over the sub-group and anything in that "folder" would pop up in a window, move mouse away and it would go away.
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