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[Crius] Starbase feedback

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Author
Darkblad
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-06-11 13:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
(updated copy of a post I made in the reprocessing feedback thread)

Compression Array Attributes
Three entries that may be obsolete/wrong

Refining Yield Multiplier (0.55x), Operational Duration (10.00s) and Restricted to Security Level Less Than (1)

Multiplier is x 0.52 in case the attribute is used that way. Reprocessing is instant. I Successfully anchored/put online Reprocessing and Compression Arrays in Pator, which is true 1.0.

Tower Anchoring
I also anchor a tower in Lustrevik which is one of the restricted systems, at least for PI.

NPEISDRIP

Scarlett LaBlanc
Midnight Savran Industries
#42 - 2014-06-11 13:23:04 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Cpt King wrote:
Whats the advantage because Pos or Station Producing / Reasearch for the Holders of the Station in 0.0? So the holders are not able to limit the usage or place some Tax for the Corp on the Reasearch / Production slots?


You will be able to tax industry jobs in player outposts, we just need to add the bit of UI for configuring the tax rate.



Apologies if this is answered already, I'm a page behind.

Will we have the ability to set the tax rate on job install costs at POS's as well? I'm not sure if that just applied to outposts or not.

Would REALLY like to have this
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#43 - 2014-06-11 13:53:31 UTC
Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Cpt King wrote:
Whats the advantage because Pos or Station Producing / Reasearch for the Holders of the Station in 0.0? So the holders are not able to limit the usage or place some Tax for the Corp on the Reasearch / Production slots?


You will be able to tax industry jobs in player outposts, we just need to add the bit of UI for configuring the tax rate.



Apologies if this is answered already, I'm a page behind.

Will we have the ability to set the tax rate on job install costs at POS's as well? I'm not sure if that just applied to outposts or not.

Would REALLY like to have this


Tax rate at a POS makes no sense, since you can only install corporation jobs that get paid from the corporation wallet, you would only be taxing yourself.

Personal jobs at a POS may come with a POS rework in the future.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Angelina Duvolle
Homeworld Technologies
#44 - 2014-06-11 13:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelina Duvolle
Steve Ronuken wrote:


It's the Thukker component array. On the market



Thank for pointing it out, I hadn't seen it referred to in any of the dev posts.

It looks good, but I'd sure like to see it have more capacity then 1m m3

Is their some reason it has to be anchored in a system with less then .4? Should be able to anchor in .1-.4 I would think. (I can't find one to test with) I noticed the intensive array requires less then .449
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-06-11 16:04:22 UTC
Why can I move stuff around between POS containers regardless of vicinity, but the moment I want to compress or refine something I have to be within 3000m? Can't this be made to ignore distance?

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De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#46 - 2014-06-11 16:59:28 UTC
Vivi Udan wrote:
\o/
I had no intention of training Starbase Defense Management because of the level5 Anchoring prerequisite.

Thank you for changing it to level4. Although I guess it depends on which side of the POS shield you're sitting on...


This., I've already bought the skill book. I'm just waiting.
And wishing.
And hopin', and dreamin'...

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#47 - 2014-06-11 18:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello people,
  • New corporations have to wait 7 days before anchoring Control Towers


  • What is the intended purpose for this?


    It's to provide a waiting time when receiving a war declaration before forming a new corporation and moving all the Starbase assets there.

    The workaround is to have a single alt create a separate contingency corp in anticipation of inbound wardecs. Upon receiving a wardec, the corp transfers all the assets to the contingency corp and dissolves the old corp, allowing the player/group to shed the wardec and put the starbase back up immediately

    Is this correct?

    e: cripes, this was mentioned like two posts after the one i quoted. serves me right for not reading the thread Sad
    Matthew
    BloodStar Technologies
    #48 - 2014-06-11 19:00:13 UTC
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:

    Tax rate at a POS makes no sense, since you can only install corporation jobs that get paid from the corporation wallet, you would only be taxing yourself.


    Having one part of your corporation able to tax another part of it is actually incredibly useful for implementing separation of duties within a corporation.

    For example, under the current system you can nominate your starbase maintenance team to use the master wallet for all starbase expenses. The starbase team then sets their desired slot fees based on running costs of the starbase.

    A different wallet division is set up for use by the blueprint copying team. The blueprint copying team places their jobs into the starbase lab arrays, and the appropriate slot fees are automatically deducted from the blueprint copying wallet division and paid into the master wallet division.

    When the starbase maintenance team needs to buy more fuel, they are able to use the slot fees that have accumulated in the master wallet to do so. It is then very easy to see whether the takings are sufficient to run the starbase or not, and to manage the funding of the starbase separately from the profitability of the blueprint copying.

    Without the ability to set taxes at a starbase, maintaining this separation of duties would require a significant amount of manual accounting work to calculate the appropriate apportionment of starbase operating costs and manually transfer the appropriate amounts of ISK between wallet divisions.
    Kenneth Skybound
    Gallifrey Resources
    #49 - 2014-06-11 20:09:46 UTC
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Cpt King wrote:
    Whats the advantage because Pos or Station Producing / Reasearch for the Holders of the Station in 0.0? So the holders are not able to limit the usage or place some Tax for the Corp on the Reasearch / Production slots?


    You will be able to tax industry jobs in player outposts, we just need to add the bit of UI for configuring the tax rate.



    Apologies if this is answered already, I'm a page behind.

    Will we have the ability to set the tax rate on job install costs at POS's as well? I'm not sure if that just applied to outposts or not.

    Would REALLY like to have this


    Tax rate at a POS makes no sense, since you can only install corporation jobs that get paid from the corporation wallet, you would only be taxing yourself.

    Personal jobs at a POS may come with a POS rework in the future.


    If the tax is taken from one wallet and put into another it DOES make sense. Eg, industry guys putting money into the master wallet, through tax, to help pay their bit for the fuel.
    CCP Nullarbor
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #50 - 2014-06-11 21:19:40 UTC
    Kenneth Skybound wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Cpt King wrote:
    Whats the advantage because Pos or Station Producing / Reasearch for the Holders of the Station in 0.0? So the holders are not able to limit the usage or place some Tax for the Corp on the Reasearch / Production slots?


    You will be able to tax industry jobs in player outposts, we just need to add the bit of UI for configuring the tax rate.



    Apologies if this is answered already, I'm a page behind.

    Will we have the ability to set the tax rate on job install costs at POS's as well? I'm not sure if that just applied to outposts or not.

    Would REALLY like to have this


    Tax rate at a POS makes no sense, since you can only install corporation jobs that get paid from the corporation wallet, you would only be taxing yourself.

    Personal jobs at a POS may come with a POS rework in the future.


    If the tax is taken from one wallet and put into another it DOES make sense. Eg, industry guys putting money into the master wallet, through tax, to help pay their bit for the fuel.


    I will talk about this use case with the team. Thanks for the feedback.

    CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

    Blue Harrier
    #51 - 2014-06-11 21:44:42 UTC
    A little disappointed with the following; I set up a POS (first one ever) and installed a Compression Array and a Reprocessing Array to test how they work.

    Took some Veldspar ore to the compressor and it compressed instantly (after working out the none intuitive drag/drop/must get closer to activate storage). Carted the compressed ore back to a station to reprocess it and was presented with a very easy to use double window with tool tips explaining what skills were giving what bonuses, amount lost, amount as tax etc, loved it.

    The next batch I dropped into the reprocessing array at the pos, right clicked, select reprocess, and done.... What the heck no window giving details, nothing.

    So is this something in the pipeline or do we have to endure this none intuitive basic window thing?

    "You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.

    TigerXtrm
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #52 - 2014-06-11 22:22:31 UTC
    Blue Harrier wrote:
    A little disappointed with the following; I set up a POS (first one ever) and installed a Compression Array and a Reprocessing Array to test how they work.

    Took some Veldspar ore to the compressor and it compressed instantly (after working out the none intuitive drag/drop/must get closer to activate storage). Carted the compressed ore back to a station to reprocess it and was presented with a very easy to use double window with tool tips explaining what skills were giving what bonuses, amount lost, amount as tax etc, loved it.

    The next batch I dropped into the reprocessing array at the pos, right clicked, select reprocess, and done.... What the heck no window giving details, nothing.

    So is this something in the pipeline or do we have to endure this none intuitive basic window thing?


    POS code is creepy and messy. Do not speak of it.

    I'm willing to forgive the lack of interface or massive updating surrounding POS's in the knowledge that their overhaul is actually in the pipeline and that wasting time on it now is probably not best idea.

    My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

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    Sirinda
    Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
    #53 - 2014-06-11 23:01:57 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Valterra Craven wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hello people,
  • New corporations have to wait 7 days before anchoring Control Towers


  • What is the intended purpose for this?


    It's to provide a waiting time when receiving a war declaration before forming a new corporation and moving all the Starbase assets there.


    So? I'd imagine any corp worth their salt has one or even more holding alts in separate one-man corporations. Pointless limitation is pointless.
    Max Kolonko
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #54 - 2014-06-11 23:30:44 UTC
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Kenneth Skybound wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    stuff


    If the tax is taken from one wallet and put into another it DOES make sense. Eg, industry guys putting money into the master wallet, through tax, to help pay their bit for the fuel.


    I will talk about this use case with the team. Thanks for the feedback.


    Sounds like to much of an edge case to me
    Max Kolonko
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #55 - 2014-06-11 23:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
    Sirinda wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Valterra Craven wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hello people,
  • New corporations have to wait 7 days before anchoring Control Towers


  • What is the intended purpose for this?


    It's to provide a waiting time when receiving a war declaration before forming a new corporation and moving all the Starbase assets there.


    So? I'd imagine any corp worth their salt has one or even more holding alts in separate one-man corporations. Pointless limitation is pointless.


    So what that they have alts in there? does those alt can do industry? Maybe some do but than again those would be with the poses already setted up. Otherwise when You escape from war You cant just apply with Your industry guys to Your other corp due to war cool-down (you cant join other corp if you felt corp during war for a week or two - cant remember exactly)
    Retar Aveymone
    DJ's Retirement Fund
    Goonswarm Federation
    #56 - 2014-06-12 00:50:55 UTC
    The Thukker Component Array can only be anchored in space with security greater than 0.1.

    You mean either greater than OR EQUAL TO 0.1, or greater than 0.0. Otherwise you can't anchor this thing in much of lowsec.
    Jacabon Mere
    Capital Storm.
    #57 - 2014-06-12 05:14:03 UTC
    Additionally there are some low sec systems that are 0.0 security rating. Hophib for example

    Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net

    Kenneth Skybound
    Gallifrey Resources
    #58 - 2014-06-12 07:25:38 UTC
    Max Kolonko wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Kenneth Skybound wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    stuff


    If the tax is taken from one wallet and put into another it DOES make sense. Eg, industry guys putting money into the master wallet, through tax, to help pay their bit for the fuel.


    I will talk about this use case with the team. Thanks for the feedback.


    Sounds like to much of an edge case to me


    It's not really that much of an edge case. In current terms, it'd be done by putting an actual cost on starbase line usage, having the indie guys have access to say wallet 7, they put in the money for their job only (so nothing to be stolen) and the line is paid for, dumping into master wallet.

    Part of the reason this is not so commonly done currently is the effort required to get a pos up and relative lack of benefits to the small fry industrialist to work out of a corp POS.

    With the tax able to be set to zero anyway, the fact that some people would used it, even at your "edge case" derision, means that it is somewhat worthwhile implementing as it would have no negative effect on those who don't use the taxation.

    POS is a corp asset, industry is a player activity. There's got to be some upward income to (help) pay for the starbase.
    Rivr Luzade
    Coreli Corporation
    Pandemic Legion
    #59 - 2014-06-12 07:33:08 UTC
    Currently you are not able to launch POS mods, or anything for that matter, for corporation out of the Fleet Hangar of an, for instance, Impel.

    Can this please be fixed or such functionality be implemented? It is highly cumbersome to move POS mods from the fleet hangar to the cargo hold only to launch it - let alone that you need to have at least 1 cargo expander to provide the necessary 4km³ for some mods.

    UI Improvement Collective

    My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

    Scarlett LaBlanc
    Midnight Savran Industries
    #60 - 2014-06-12 13:41:39 UTC
    Kenneth Skybound wrote:
    Max Kolonko wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    Kenneth Skybound wrote:
    CCP Nullarbor wrote:
    stuff


    If the tax is taken from one wallet and put into another it DOES make sense. Eg, industry guys putting money into the master wallet, through tax, to help pay their bit for the fuel.


    I will talk about this use case with the team. Thanks for the feedback.


    Sounds like to much of an edge case to me


    It's not really that much of an edge case. In current terms, it'd be done by putting an actual cost on starbase line usage, having the indie guys have access to say wallet 7, they put in the money for their job only (so nothing to be stolen) and the line is paid for, dumping into master wallet.

    Part of the reason this is not so commonly done currently is the effort required to get a pos up and relative lack of benefits to the small fry industrialist to work out of a corp POS.

    With the tax able to be set to zero anyway, the fact that some people would used it, even at your "edge case" derision, means that it is somewhat worthwhile implementing as it would have no negative effect on those who don't use the taxation.

    POS is a corp asset, industry is a player activity. There's got to be some upward income to (help) pay for the starbase.



    I guess it might be "edge use" if the majority of POS's are run by one man corps....
    If a corporation has a POS to provide industry benifits (bonuses they can not recieve in an NPC station) to its members, that asset and it fuel must be paid for. I much prefer that people who use a service pay, for that service. The easiest way to do that at a POS would be to tax the job install costs the same way it will happen at NPC stations.

    Post patch when you install a job at an NPC station you will pay a "labor cost", plus a 10% tax to the NPC corp on that cost. I'm asking that a player corp be able to set a custom tax rate and collect that same tax. This would provide a mechanic for those who use the POS to cover its own costs, using a mechanic that will ALREADY exist in game.

    I realize that POS code is a disaster, but it seems to me this would happen as part of the indusrty UI, and should be a simple thing to code.

    This was discussed in the feedback thread for the indusrty Dev blog and it was implied by Dev responce that it would be added if time allowed. I was under the impression that the six week push back was to allow time to provide for "features" such as this.

    Without this, when corp members flock to the POS to take advantage of the material cost reductions for manufacturing, lack of the 10% NPC job install tax and faster research / copying with unlimited slots... Someone is going to have to create another spreadsheet and then play "bill collector" to get ISK or fuel blocks from people who are using the asset.

    Would be SO NICE if CCP would provide the ability in game so I will not have to do in Eve a job I would not want in reality.