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[Crius] Reprocessing feedback

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Potions Master
GearBunny
#121 - 2014-06-25 19:42:33 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Setta Codie wrote:
Defiantly need the refining quote at the pos refine arrays just like at outposts. I get 74% at an outpost. I can see that because the quote tells me. I get less minerals at the intensive refining array at the pos but I have no idea of the %


Yes, we wanted to introduce the new UI for Starbase Reprocessing Arrays as well, but all software developers that volunteered to look into the POS code started behaving strangely. Two of them got seizures while drooling everywhere and one had to be locked down for yelling "oh my god, it's full of stars" non-stop.

Not pretty, so we'll have to make due without it so far.


The more you mention how scary the pos code is, the more curious I am to see it... Contact me and I'll sign an NDA, give blood samples, whatever you desire. Perhaps this is one of many things you need to go open source with so the player base can attempt to help you with it.

I assume the difficulty lies in all the entity object entanglements like I saw in that fanfest presentation.... and the corp entanglements.... Or that whoever worked on this part of the code didn't leave adequate comments. Or that it is 50,000 lines long....
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-06-26 08:25:49 UTC
...or all of the above, plus half a dozen other things.

POS rewrite is desperately needed...
Darkblad
Doomheim
#123 - 2014-06-26 09:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Jon Lucien wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Apples and oranges, but I guess I didn't explain myself clearly.


  • NPC stations and conquerable stations are not getting any service change.
  • Player outposts will get the reprocessing facilities as quote above.
  • Slots are going away on everything. NPC stations, conquerable stations, outposts, starbases.


So then what is the non-upgraded difference between the minmatar outpost and the other racial variants?
I wonder as well, as the quote CCP Ytterbium refers to is from the devblog. And those yields got changed by CCP Ytterbium later, as quoted from here:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Update:

  • Plan for Minmatar outpost to give 52% reprocessing rate by default, and 54% when upgraded to tier 1. Other values are unchanged.
As a table here

NPE – ISD – RIP
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2014-06-26 16:32:19 UTC
Jon Lucien wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Apples and oranges, but I guess I didn't explain myself clearly.


  • NPC stations and conquerable stations are not getting any service change.
  • Player outposts will get the reprocessing facilities as quote above.
  • Slots are going away on everything. NPC stations, conquerable stations, outposts, starbases.


So then what is the non-upgraded difference between the minmatar outpost and the other racial variants?



Latest plan is:

  • Default outpost gives 50%, Minmatar gives 52% reprocessing rates on everything.
  • Upgrades on non-Minmatar outposts give extra ore and ice reprocessing yield, up to 52%, 54% and 57%
  • Upgrades on Minmatar outposts give extra ore and ice reprocessing yield, up to 53%, 56% and 60%
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#125 - 2014-06-26 16:54:33 UTC
Do you not think that only giving a 1% bonus on the first upgrade to the mimatar station to be a little skewed.
DissentersWillAbhor
Felix Legions
#126 - 2014-06-26 17:05:08 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Do you not think that only giving a 1% bonus on the first upgrade to the mimatar station to be a little skewed.

IIRC, the devblog had it at 54%/57%/60%
Killian Redbeard
Ironhand Research and Industrial Corp
#127 - 2014-06-27 20:42:40 UTC
I just did some testing on SISI. Here is my feedback.

I put up a hisc POS to use the Reprocessing Array

I reprocessed 1 unit of Glacial Mass.
At NPC station with 70% I got 48 heavy water, 288 hydrogen isotopes and 24 liquid ozone.

At the POS I got only 35 heavy water, 215 hydrogen Isotopes and 18 liquid ozone. That is 52% refine rate. Does not look like your skills are being applied to the Reprocessing array.

If you can not give the same window for reprocessing at a POS as you do in station can you at least give show the % somewhere? When you access in the Reprocessing array inventory can you put your refine % in that window so you know before refining what the % will be.

I have max skills for refining ice and hi-sec ores
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#128 - 2014-06-27 23:04:37 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Do you not think that only giving a 1% bonus on the first upgrade to the mimatar station to be a little skewed.



Maybe, but the fact we get 3% better over the end is much better than the other way
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2014-06-28 15:36:02 UTC
Question - im in null

@ Minmatar Outpost - and when i reprocess I can see "50%" at the top of the screen in the reprocessing window.

When I hover over it it says

50% base yield
1.0x bonus from Scrapmetal Processing
1.0x reduction from station owner tax

But there is no tax from station owner.....we own the station......is this reduction correct? Is it an NPC tax ?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-06-28 15:43:49 UTC
Potions Master wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Setta Codie wrote:
Defiantly need the refining quote at the pos refine arrays just like at outposts. I get 74% at an outpost. I can see that because the quote tells me. I get less minerals at the intensive refining array at the pos but I have no idea of the %


Yes, we wanted to introduce the new UI for Starbase Reprocessing Arrays as well, but all software developers that volunteered to look into the POS code started behaving strangely. Two of them got seizures while drooling everywhere and one had to be locked down for yelling "oh my god, it's full of stars" non-stop.

Not pretty, so we'll have to make due without it so far.


The more you mention how scary the pos code is, the more curious I am to see it... Contact me and I'll sign an NDA, give blood samples, whatever you desire. Perhaps this is one of many things you need to go open source with so the player base can attempt to help you with it.

I assume the difficulty lies in all the entity object entanglements like I saw in that fanfest presentation.... and the corp entanglements.... Or that whoever worked on this part of the code didn't leave adequate comments. Or that it is 50,000 lines long....

well, POS were introduced in 2004/05 or thereabouts.

2006/08, POSes were continuously changed as sov tools until they were removed from the equation some 4 or so years ago.


my guess is, they started with the first code and then build everything on top of it? should be scary to watch at the damn thingShocked

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#131 - 2014-06-28 20:06:42 UTC
I filled a intensive reprocessing array with compressed veld (200k m3) and reprocessed it. Which put out ~3 million m3 several times the size of the arrays capacity.

I'd suggest adding a mineral hold to the Reprocessing arrays where reprocessing jobs get placed.

Also is there a reason the array has such small capacity? 200k seems like an arbitrary limitation when reprocessing is instant.

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#132 - 2014-06-28 20:58:13 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
I filled a intensive reprocessing array with compressed veld (200k m3) and reprocessed it. Which put out ~3 million m3 several times the size of the arrays capacity.

I'd suggest adding a mineral hold to the Reprocessing arrays where reprocessing jobs get placed.

Also is there a reason the array has such small capacity? 200k seems like an arbitrary limitation when reprocessing is instant.



It has always overloaded the array after processing a full batch. Nothing new there. No "mineral" bay needed

Small capacity probably stems from the desire to limit "free" storage space....although, honestly, I don't see the need for a 200k limit anymore....1m would probably be around the right value.
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#133 - 2014-06-28 20:59:00 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
Question - im in null

@ Minmatar Outpost - and when i reprocess I can see "50%" at the top of the screen in the reprocessing window.

When I hover over it it says

50% base yield
1.0x bonus from Scrapmetal Processing
1.0x reduction from station owner tax

But there is no tax from station owner.....we own the station......is this reduction correct? Is it an NPC tax ?




And what is 1.0x zero?
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2014-06-28 21:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Laendra
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Jon Lucien wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Apples and oranges, but I guess I didn't explain myself clearly.


  • NPC stations and conquerable stations are not getting any service change.
  • Player outposts will get the reprocessing facilities as quote above.
  • Slots are going away on everything. NPC stations, conquerable stations, outposts, starbases.


So then what is the non-upgraded difference between the minmatar outpost and the other racial variants?



Latest plan is:

  • Default outpost gives 50%, Minmatar gives 52% reprocessing rates on everything.
  • Upgrades on non-Minmatar outposts give extra ore and ice reprocessing yield, up to 52%, 54% and 57%
  • Upgrades on Minmatar outposts give extra ore and ice reprocessing yield, up to 53%, 56% and 60%


I still think the default for Minmatar Service outposts should be 54% (same as intensive reprocessing array) for Ore and Ice, with the upgrades each giving 2%, giving us 56%, 58% and 60%.

Honestly, I don't think anyone gives a hoot about the extra 2% scrapmetal processing.

And the upgrades on non-Minmatar could be limited to the 2% as well, giving 52%, 54% and 56%
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#135 - 2014-06-30 04:39:50 UTC
Laendra wrote:
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
I filled a intensive reprocessing array with compressed veld (200k m3) and reprocessed it. Which put out ~3 million m3 several times the size of the arrays capacity.

I'd suggest adding a mineral hold to the Reprocessing arrays where reprocessing jobs get placed.

Also is there a reason the array has such small capacity? 200k seems like an arbitrary limitation when reprocessing is instant.



It has always overloaded the array after processing a full batch. Nothing new there. No "mineral" bay needed

Small capacity probably stems from the desire to limit "free" storage space....although, honestly, I don't see the need for a 200k limit anymore....1m would probably be around the right value.


I suggested a mineral bay just so that you don't break immersion. The mineral bay would only be one way. Only minerals coming directly from a reprocessing job could be stored there. But this might indicate a greater problem in which mineral volume needs to be readjusted. A block of compressed Arkonor is 3.08m3. After reprocessing its 27 times larger. This is where the problem is. Ice is much better in this regard. Compressed Glacial Mass is 100m3 and after reprocessing its 86m3.

Shouldn't it be easier to move refined materials then to move raw? Ore compression should make it easier for miners to move large amounts of ore to the reprocessing plant, not make moving minerals easier.

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Souichiro Suigetsu
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#136 - 2014-06-30 09:07:22 UTC
hey there,

i tested the new compressing on the Rorqual and the Array.

I recognized that the new pressing for each ore stack (100er) gets one Compressed ore, thats fine.

But the Compressed Ore i have stored in Station will lose a lots of worth as theyre number didn´t Change.
So dunno if this was just a bug on Sisi which didn´t Change the compressed ore Count on Station.
Or if i should refine all my Compressed Ore before Cruius and not getting the new yields from Crius.



Best regards
Yinmatook
Skilled Refugees
#137 - 2014-07-01 12:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Yinmatook
I see the refining array (POS Module) is still doing the base 52% and ignoring your skills and implants. It is becoming more than a little annoying to log in and reprocess 1 unit of compressed ore every patch to see if this gets fixed.

Where is this bug on your list of things to fix (top, middle, bottom...)?

[EDIT] Ok - I went back and re-read the comments for the reprocessing changes... I see that skills are not supposed to apply to the pos refinery modules. Well... darn... The request for a SiSi patch notes remains...

Is there a patch notes for SiSi someplace so we don't have to test everything, so we know what has been worked on and what we should be testing to help the most?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#138 - 2014-07-01 12:35:49 UTC
Souichiro Suigetsu wrote:
hey there,

i tested the new compressing on the Rorqual and the Array.

I recognized that the new pressing for each ore stack (100er) gets one Compressed ore, thats fine.

But the Compressed Ore i have stored in Station will lose a lots of worth as theyre number didn´t Change.
So dunno if this was just a bug on Sisi which didn´t Change the compressed ore Count on Station.
Or if i should refine all my Compressed Ore before Cruius and not getting the new yields from Crius.



Best regards
I've also been hoping to see adjustments to kronos ore blocks during the last mirror. I just appears that there was no script run to bring those kronos blocks to crius blocks - which should be like: kronos ore count of a block divided by hundred = crius block count.

(still I'm interested especially in pyroxeres and crokite, due to them having current ore quantities that are no multiple of 100)

NPE – ISD – RIP
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#139 - 2014-07-01 12:46:21 UTC
Yinmatook wrote:
Is there a patch notes for SiSi someplace so we don't have to test everything, so we know what has been
worked on and what we should be testing to help the most?


Can't like this post enough
constructum
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#140 - 2014-07-04 00:47:03 UTC
Is it possible to get some sort of UI pop up for reprocessing at a pos to get expected values out. Currently ore just immidiately turns into minerals with no idea whether it is anywhere close to correct amounts or if skills/implants are properly being applied