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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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The problem with Eve explained for newbs by a newb...

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#41 - 2014-06-13 15:31:37 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:


The character Bazaar is the most P2W aspect of almost any game. Other game offer XP boosts, Cash generation increases or items with stat bouses/golden bullets. Apart from wow's instant level 90 program, Eve is probably the only mainstream MMO where you can buy a top end "max level" character with years of history attached to it for cash.

You can find characters to buy easily and don't need to haggle because you are using real cash... that's the point of P2W. I've had people Eve-mail friends in game and offer them 120% of there characters worth because they saw their eveboard profile. They accepted, sold the char, bought a new char and just rejoined our corp with a profit being made.

Eve is the NFL of MMO's.
The character bazaar isn't P2W when you consider that despite a character having x million SP, the person who buys the character has to know how to use those SP effectively. Player skills > character skills.

TL;DR A highly skilled character in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing is going to end in tears.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Catalonia Soikutsu
#42 - 2014-06-13 16:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Catalonia Soikutsu
Maeltstome wrote:

I'm a DBA and excel expert - it's my job. It might help grind some numbers, but my in game experience is more valuable... not sure where you're going with it.


I thought it was obvious that I was using it as an example of out-of-game skills giving an in-game advantage. I also mentioned those who are adept at leading pvp fleets. These are advantages that spaceGrunt #19384 doesn't have, but it doesn't ~ruin the game~ for him. In-fact, both of those players improve the game for him, by offering lower cost goods or by leading fleets (either for him to join, or for him to shoot at).

Maeltstome wrote:

Being terrible at the game is constantly used as an excuse as to why high SP characters suck, but it takes only a few months of dedicated play to become a consumate pilot. in that time you'll be lucky to get a few T2 frigs with max fitting skills.


I'm not sure what your point is vis a vi the bazaar, not that I disagree with you.

Maeltstome wrote:

The character Bazaar is the most P2W aspect of almost any game. Other game offer XP boosts, Cash generation increases or items with stat bouses/golden bullets. Apart from wow's instant level 90 program, Eve is probably the only mainstream MMO where you can buy a top end "max level" character with years of history attached to it for cash.


That DBA experience and you're completely glossing over ECON 101. As I explained, the Bazaar operates on existing supplies of characters, isk, etc. One who sells PLEX to buy a character has enriched the person who sold him isk for the PLEX as well as the person who sold him a character he didn't want in exchange for that isk. You show me another game that uses a player-driven transaction system like that. It doesn't exist. And of-course, you're contradiction yourself, and common knowledge of EVE when you compare this to WoW.

First, if there's no 200m sp 4x perfect titan character for you to buy, and you can't find anyone willing to sell such a character to you, then you're out of luck. No transaction for you. "Oh but you can just ~~cash munay~~." No. If either the character doesn't exist, or the owner really doesn't want to sell. You don't get it. There's no clause in the TOS that says "if someone on the bazaar wants a character matching your description, you must sell if they offer -this- much isk."


Secondly, there is no "max level," corresponding to WoW. My main has almost perfect trade skills, but in terms of her trading prowess, she is far from maximized. As an overall character, there are a hundred other things I'd like to train. Even if she had 50mil sp more than she does, I would still be looking for what to train next and trying to figure out how to do what I just trained for.

Third, and finally, you cannot pretend to be the previous owner of a character. So aside from looking over the history yourself and enjoying the fact you own a piece of history, you cannot reap the prestige of having accomplished them yourself.

Maeltstome wrote:

You can find characters to buy easily and don't need to haggle because you are using real cash... that's the point of P2W.


1. You have to convert cash to isk.
2. You have to find a character you want and a seller who will accept your offer.

So again, you're just wrong on both counts. You aren't just using real cash and again, you aren't paying CCP to win. You're trading your cash for someone else's isk, for someone else's character. P2Trade. ;)

Maeltstome wrote:

I've had people Eve-mail friends in game and offer them 120% of there characters worth because they saw their eveboard profile. They accepted, sold the char, bought a new char and just rejoined our corp with a profit being made.

Eve is the NFL of MMO's.


Obviously you think this behavior is deplorable. Are these people still your friends? If they are, why would you want them to not have this opportunity to make isk and give someone else who wants to give them that isk, a character they want?

I'm not sure I entirely understand your position on the bazaar or PLEX (it appears you are conflating them), but nowhere in your post did you describe anything I found to be detrimental to the game. If you did, perhaps you could explain what's bad about it, instead of simply employing the wowgold trope that clearly doesn't work here.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#43 - 2014-06-13 23:58:24 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:
This game is P2W. You skill up by having time in game and time in game cost money. Most players will deny this b/c it hurts their sense of achievement.


My sense of achievement comes from setting myself goals and accomplishing them. I don't get a sense of achievement from attaining new skills, except where those new skills are part of the goals I have set. I don't set the goal of "train Minmatar Frigate 5", nor do I set the goal of "fly a Cheetah". Instead I set a goal which is fun, like "explore lowsec and bring back treasures from relic and data sites." Another goal might be, "find a new person to chat to."

RebelArch Geten wrote:
SPs don't mean everything, but they mean a whole hell of a lot if the thing you want to do isn't available to you until you pay over $100 in sub fees for the privilege of getting the part of the game you wanted.


You can say the same thing about World of Warcraft: you can't get to the "part you want" (which for most people is the endless grind of "endgame") without paying the sub fees for the privilege of grinding levels 1-90. One thing you can't do in level-progression games is join your friends who are playing the part of the game you want to be involved in, while flying ships that aren't your final goal. For example, you don't have to train for two years to fly a capital ship just to take part in large fleet battles: you just find people who will take low-SP characters in large fleet battles. Try joining an end-game raiding guild and going raiding when you're only level 2. The game won't even let you through the door, regardless how much your friends want you to join them.

EVE is not a progression game. There is character development which expands the options you have, and in the meantime you need to focus on the actual game: building social networks and finding ways to use the character you have to do things that are fun with other people.

EVE is certainly not P2W: just because you can buy nice toys if you throw lots of money into the game doesn't make it P2W: in fact if you throw lots of money into ships that you have no experience flying, you're going to find that EVE is, in fact, pay to lose. Before you can "win" with those shiny toys you have to have friends around to help you use those toys to their maximum potential.

As for your observations that EVE is a PvP game: yes, that's the entire premise of the game. It is all-PvP, all the time. New players will benefit from understanding this before they start playing the game. That's why the opening paragraph in my Day 0 Advice thread highlighted that facet of the game.

Please do enjoy the game, and remember that the real game is not flying spaceships, or becoming a trading tycoon, but finding people to play with and against.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#44 - 2014-06-17 13:52:25 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-06-17 19:57:06 UTC
to the OP

The thing you are experiencing (and your friends have experienced) is a disconnect between your expectation of EVE and the reality of EVE.

As a group, you wanted to log on have your fun doing your instance, then log off. I can understand that style of play, but it's not terribly well suited for EVE because there can always be someone who crashes your party. Apparently this happened to your group a few times, and now you are the lone survivor.

Congratulations. Now the question is - do you want to stick around?

On your own you will fail. You may last a week, a month maybe even a year but you will fail. EVE is a game which forces you to interact with others in ways that no other MMO does. That doesn't always mean joining a group of people and cooperating, I know some who are driven by revenge, by greed, by a need to prove something, a need for attention or even a need for control. All of them can thrive in EVE, and will make EVE an interesting experience for you if you meet them.

Note that I say interesting. EVE can be fun, but it's not always fun. Sometimes it's friggin downright boring, even when it comes to PVP activities (e.g. POS bashing etc). But I at least have always found interesting things, and more importantly interesting people, who bring me back to EVE (and yes I've taken a couple of long breaks).

I actually feel your pain when it comes to the available time to allocate to EVE - it can be harsh, very harsh, when you just have a few hours a week scattered here and there to do stuff in your favorite MMO. You need focus and you need drive to succeed but it is possible.

Good on you for sticking around. Sorry that your friends left though, but here is the deal - you need to HTFU to make it in EVE and the best way to do that is to make new friends to help you do it.

Hint - Never ever trust anyone in EVE. This place makes the Game of Thrones look like a kindergarden when it comes to backstabbing and betrayals.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#46 - 2014-06-18 22:54:31 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Also, OP, I suggest that you prepare yourself for PvP. The omens point to a wardec coming your way in the near future. Like sometime around when I get home from work tonight.

Big smile



How'd it go?

Thank me later :D
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