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The problem with Eve explained for newbs by a newb...

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#21 - 2014-06-10 17:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
If you want to learn how to EVE, read this thread from start to finish: Am I too stupid to play EVE?.

In that thread, the OP's first step in the right direction was asking for advice. One of the many excellent replies:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2887532#post2887532

Nothing you encounter in EVE is an insurmountable problem, unless you make it so.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#22 - 2014-06-10 17:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Sandbox means that you are free to try and play as you wish, it also means that everybody else is also free to try and play as they wish.

This creates conflict, because the way that some wish to play involves making the way that other people wish to play difficult.

TL;DR Eve is a sandbox, and some of us may try to defecate all over the sandcastle you're trying to build.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#23 - 2014-06-10 17:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
OK here are my 2 cents from a newbie too. For info I only play it casually since my free time is already taken by game dev and other things.

RebelArch Geten wrote:
I love Eve, my friends do not, and yet I can't defend the game. They are right about every reason they stopped playing. My game group of 6 joined last month. I am the last one playing. Though I am playing more for the genre than the mechanics.

Eve's problem is that you don't get what you pay for. You get the game experience someone else paid for.

This is not a sand box game where you find your fun and play your way. You PvP. No matter what you PvP, b/c the PvPers are looking for you to play with. If you stay in Hi Sec to trade, mine, or explore, you still PvP b/c there are no instances, and you can still be the target of a suicide PvPer.

The first problem here is that you take PVP in only one way.
Whatever you do in the game and in whatever space type you doing PVP.

For ex I'm doing PI into Lowsec space, setting it up and hauling the stuff afterward. By this way I'm doing PVP with the local "evil" pirates, because I exploiting the resources of these systems and even pass stuff through them as a unknown/nobody neutral.

Can they shoot me? Yes, even easier if I don't take any precaution, forget to cloak, select a bad bookmark and so on.
Is it playing for them? Nope, since I'm doing my stuff even if it is riskier, but for me the risk is the only fun I found in this game, and that's OK, it's gives me some blood pump by only avoiding PVP... and avoiding PVP is doing a sort of PVP too.

Whatever you do in the game you don't play for the others but you influence, even very locally, the play of other people.
PVP is a two-way interaction because in the other case it's called brainless PVE.

RebelArch Geten wrote:

This isn't a problem for risk or loss in game, this a disruption of someone's real life time. If you're a career professional there is no jumping on for that quick leisure time to do that one thing you really like doing. You may spend an hour just finding that thing, another hour avoiding other players, still get whacked and start all over again. There is no jumping on before you have to pick the kids up from practice. This is a game for hard core players.
And they love it. That's why you see so many snide remarks in any post having any complaint about Eve. It's unfortunate so many react such a way. (...)

Yes it is. And that's not what people complain about. They complain about the lack of fun. Or better the disruption of fun. Hard can be fun. No fun is a waste of time.

It's up to you to manage your time in this game. Do you know that many people play it casually by doing their pew PVP some times in corps like Brave Newbies or RvB, because nothing is mandatory? There are a lot of resources and 3rd party software to cut the time you pass to have information.

Fanboys will stay fanboys, whatever the game, you can simply ignore them.
Fun is a very subjective data. I have fun with complex strategy games and combat flight sims. I can pass hours to read a user's manual before even to fly the aircraft. This isn't fun for many but fun for me. The disruption of fun can be funny when people try to disrupt it and you do what you can do to prevent it.

RebelArch Geten wrote:

(...) Eve has a monopoly on open world space travel so at the moment they aren't worried about customers getting what they paid for.
(...)Tips to deal with this:
Know that this is not a game for most players, it's a 2nd life sim. They work at it, and don't care if it's not fun. They will have no sympathy for this, and probably not even understand what your complaint is.

I will not say the Eve is a perfect game, because ED suits me better in this style. But if you feel that you don't receive fun for what you paid for, there is a plethora of others games out there. EO has maybe, and with the newcomers it's not so sure anymore, a sort of monopoly, but it's not a valid reason to continue to play a game IMHO. Games are like stocks, we aren't married to them.
Yes some people take this game as real and as their 2nd (and even 1st for a small bunch) life. And why not if they have fun with it? You haven't to do the same. Even if sometimes some news give a feeling of the contrary, you don't have to follow the crowd to have fun with Eve, but any playstyle have consequences, as for ex I playing solo. Just accept them and even have fun with it.

RebelArch Geten wrote:

The weekends are for PvP. If you have plans on anything else, forget it. There will be too many people on trying to PvP you.

Wrong. As usual you don't have to hide in a station because oh but it's the weekend.
More people = more action and events. Just continue to do your stuff.
When I'm in Lowsec and a fleet of "evil" pirates come in the system, I don't think "ofc I'm must dock and logoff!".

RebelArch Geten wrote:

The sooner you become a PvPer the more often you will get what you are paying for.
(...)
This game is P2W.

Wrong again, but you seem to have something against the pew PVPers so...
And no for the P2W, at the contrary of many MMO or F2P bad stuff.

NB: take a look here. Perhaps it will give you some ideas of things to do in Eve that don't take all your free time
RebelArch Geten
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-06-10 18:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: RebelArch Geten
TY for all the troll brain dead responses that must get copied and pasted in every thread that has anything critical to say. Eve is a great game, no great game is perfect. Every best of year game, has best of year mods to make those games better.

I'm in Eve to stay, but 50% of players aren't. That's not good.

I have spent my time in Low, Null, and WH. I have joined a corp. I'm not telling you to dock up on wknds b/c of PvP, I'm telling you to go pew pew PvP.

I do not mind pew pew. I do have a frustration with the sites not being instances (which I consider PvP). I have an hour to play, there is a part of this game I like, it's a waste of a game if I can't get to it in an hour.

Get over your hard core Eve isn't a "theme park". It's like a cult. We're the cool kids b/c we're different and we use buzz words as derogatories to imply we're better. You have the guy above taking pride in the amount of work he puts in a game like he ain't no welfare queen. News for you buddy that's not an achievement. The people that jump in Eve for casual play aren't the brain dead ones. They are putting their time into real life skills. Maybe if you tried that some more you wouldn't need to derive such esteem of superiority over how you play a game.

The funny thing is, so many of you were worried about me infecting new players, when your replies are the turn offs. I want new players to stay, and getting real expectations are the best way to prepare newbs. Your resistance to anyone else wanting a different experience is the turn off.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-06-10 18:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
RebelArch Geten wrote:


I'm in Eve to stay, but 50% of players aren't. That's not good.



What's really fascinating is the sheer quantity of mouth-breathers who heard that statistic and absolutely nothing else in the entire presentation.

The presentation actually went, "We lose a lot of new players, and we've identified this as the reason..." and then they talked about what helps them retain players and how they want to guide more players toward that.

But what a lot of people heard is, "We lose a lot of new players, and, gosh guys, we're completely flummoxed here. We have no ******* clue why this is happening. Please, for the love of god, head to the forums and make 30 posts citing this statistic, along with your plucked-from-thin-air explanation that we trust will surely be accurate, even though you have absolutely no data to support it, nor even a baseline level of understanding of the game. Help us, RebelArch Geten, you're our only hope!"

You haven't actually connected the dots between that stat and your drivel. You just posted a bunch of misinformed schlock and, when people who are far more knowledgeable about the game corrected you, you pulled it out like it magically grants meaning to anything you said.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#26 - 2014-06-10 18:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
So much for judgement and victimization.
I do play my way and avoiding pew PVP in this game too but I have fun, so because of that I'm a pseudo king-on-the-hill a brain-dead and a troll? Yeah right if it please your ego, another dumb and numb discussion.

You take this game too seriously for what I see, and I have no time for these petty accusations, yeah in that case I wasting time.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-06-10 18:58:05 UTC


I disagree with you, OP. On three points in particular:

1 - An EVE player can most certainly have fun in this game without taking it so seriously that it is a second job. Many players do exactly that.

2 - You ARE getting what you pay for! You pay for access to the game EVE Online, the fun is for you to find / make not for CCP to hand to you.

3 - That customer service telephone number you're looking for? - it's the f12 key on your computer keyboard to go into the petition system... The petition system is already hindered by the huge amount of junk petitions submitted by players. A telephone customer service would probably be so clogged up...we probably don't want that...



SurrenderMonkey wrote:
This is like sitting down with a kid who just thumbed through his very first algebra book, and then listening to him say, "Okay, the problem with algebra is that there are a bunch of letters in here, but math is done with numbers."

Many of your observations are at least superficially correct, but your conclusions about the implications of those observations are not.

+1






EvE security zones in pictures

EvE quick reference pdf

EvE links
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#28 - 2014-06-10 20:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
RebelArch Geten wrote:

I do not mind pew pew. I do have a frustration with the sites not being instances (which I consider PvP). I have an hour to play, there is a part of this game I like, it's a waste of a game if I can't get to it in an hour.
Pretty much everything in Eve is PvP, or aimed at feeding PvP. Pew Pew is only a very small part of the PvP available to you, and everyone else.

Please explain why sites should be instances?
If I take the time and effort to scan you down in a site, why should I not be able to enter it and try to get you to shoot at me?

My fun is just as important as yours and Eve is an extremely competitive PvP oriented game.

Quote:
Get over your hard core Eve isn't a "theme park". It's like a cult. We're the cool kids b/c we're different and we use buzz words as derogatories to imply we're better. You have the guy above taking pride in the amount of work he puts in a game like he ain't no welfare queen. News for you buddy that's not an achievement. The people that jump in Eve for casual play aren't the brain dead ones. They are putting their time into real life skills. Maybe if you tried that some more you wouldn't need to derive such esteem of superiority over how you play a game.
The guy you so casually disparage is actually doing it right, Eve is a game that requires effort, and long term planning, If you want a quick fix, I suggest playing something else or joining RvB.

With reference to real life skills, you should try working on your interpersonal ones. Labelling those who disagree with you as brain dead trolls isn't doing you any favours.

Quote:
The funny thing is, so many of you were worried about me infecting new players, when your replies are the turn offs. I want new players to stay, and getting real expectations are the best way to prepare newbs. Your resistance to anyone else wanting a different experience is the turn off.
If you want to talk about real expectations, then speak to CCP. The NPE is part of what gives newbies unrealistic expectations.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#29 - 2014-06-10 20:52:11 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:
TY for all the troll brain dead responses that must get copied and pasted in every thread that has anything critical to say.

You are so thoroughly concussed by the wrong end of this particular stick that explaining it further would be a waste of both our time.

If you can't see a single helpful response in the last page and a half then I declare you to be trolling and/or hopeless.

o7

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-06-10 21:37:10 UTC
read your post, have to say I whole-heartedly disagree.

First-there's not much PvP in highsec unless you decide that you just gotta auto-pilot something to somewhere (auto-piloting is bad, even in highsec, yes I do it myself sometimes and yes I've lost ships to it)

Second-park where you're going to be playing. Me, I've got about an hour to an hour and a half a night. That's just enough time to do a few L4's, so during the week I park myself where I get L4's from.

Third-skill points mean next to nothing. sure that guy who's got more skill points in the same exact thing that I have them in might be a few % better, but if he makes a mistake I can still beat him in a fight.

about plexing, I started plexing my account in my second month of playing. seriously. it's not that hard, a few PI alts, a little time (again coming out of the 1 1/2 hour I can play a night) and I make enough from PI to plex my accounts.

yes EVE is a game where someone can come kick in your sand castle, I've had it happen a few times. If you don't like it play in highsec somewhere away from trade hubs or major mission hubs. I've spent weeks playing where I would only see one or two other ships my entire game session.

oh, and I only started about 3 months or so before you, so I don't have much more skills than you (actually probably close to the same because I trained 2 PI alts which was about a month training for each)
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#31 - 2014-06-10 22:14:42 UTC
10 year vet, so its my right to post. Deal with it. *tosses 2 isk onto the table*

1) skill points mean nothing. That's right NOTHING. Eve is not WoW. Being 300m sp's does not = a lvl 80 or whatever wow guy.

2) Skill points mearly means you can use the equipment. Its the same as IRL. I have an AS in computer crap. That's the schooling I took, that's my sp equivant. I also have 10 years of experience this is practical experience doing stuff. This is what makes me better then they guy who went to ITT tech, spent 60k did nto do much and thinks he;s all that.

3) What I just said, is the difference between my 120m sp's (no implants ever, yes I know) and 10 years of play time, and some noob buying a 120m sp chat off the market. I know how to do everything I am trained for, caue I have 10 years of experience doing it, the noob doesn't.

4) HOWEVER, I still suck at pew pew. I die more times then I can count. If you ever face me in pvp, no matter your age, there is a 90% chance you will win. Because I know more about mining and corp running then I do pvp.

Eve is all about pvp. the problem is not the game, its noobs thinking this is wow. I can do anything, as a new char if I made one tomorrow in 3 days of training. ANYTHING. I can't fly everything, but I can DO anything.

The 50% of noobs leave, is because 50% of noobs don't get help. Friends and corps is what keeps you here. Its why I stayed as long as I have.

/end bittervet rant

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#32 - 2014-06-11 00:22:19 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:
TY for all the troll brain dead responses that must get copied and pasted in every thread that has anything critical to say. Eve is a great game, no great game is perfect. Every best of year game, has best of year mods to make those games better.

I'm in Eve to stay, but 50% of players aren't. That's not good.

I have spent my time in Low, Null, and WH. I have joined a corp. I'm not telling you to dock up on wknds b/c of PvP, I'm telling you to go pew pew PvP.

I do not mind pew pew. I do have a frustration with the sites not being instances (which I consider PvP). I have an hour to play, there is a part of this game I like, it's a waste of a game if I can't get to it in an hour.

Get over your hard core Eve isn't a "theme park". It's like a cult. We're the cool kids b/c we're different and we use buzz words as derogatories to imply we're better. You have the guy above taking pride in the amount of work he puts in a game like he ain't no welfare queen. News for you buddy that's not an achievement. The people that jump in Eve for casual play aren't the brain dead ones. They are putting their time into real life skills. Maybe if you tried that some more you wouldn't need to derive such esteem of superiority over how you play a game.

The funny thing is, so many of you were worried about me infecting new players, when your replies are the turn offs. I want new players to stay, and getting real expectations are the best way to prepare newbs. Your resistance to anyone else wanting a different experience is the turn off.


Revolutionary Front Declares War Against Armilies corporation
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2014.06.11 00:21

Revolutionary Front has declared war on Armilies corporation.
Within 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved. If war is due to a corporation at war joining an alliance, then the war starts immediately instead.

For your convenience we have included the appropriate CONCORD War Rules:

The weekly cost is 50,000,000.00 ISK and you will receive a bill which needs to be paid promptly to maintain the war. If the bill is not paid before it is due then the war will be cancelled. If the war is cancelled then do not pay any outstanding bills for that war.

When an active war has been cancelled, there is a 24 hour grace period during which you can still be legally attacked.

If you are at war with a corporation that joins an alliance then the war will change from being against the corporation to being against the alliance.

If you are at war with an alliance and a corporation leaves that alliance then you will still be at war with the alliance but also temporarily at war with the corporation that left. The war against the corporation that leaves an alliance lasts 24 hours during this period you can attack them until the war expires.

Should you wish to resume hostilities against such a corporation then you need to declare war again.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#33 - 2014-06-11 00:22:44 UTC
The omens were true!!!

ShockedShockedShocked

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#34 - 2014-06-11 02:42:56 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:
The funny thing is, so many of you were worried about me infecting new players, when your replies are the turn offs.
I have to disagree with your sentiment in this statement -- not because some of the forum warriors here don't deserve it -- because you don't understand the tone of your own writing. I had no clue from your post why "you love Eve". The tone was so depressing and negative that it made me wonder if your friends quit after hearing you describe the game. :-)

But I take you at your word that your objective is to improve the game and the experience for new and casual players. I've wanted to do the same since I started playing Eve about 8 months ago.

First, what do you like about Eve? Knowing what you like might help some of the posters give more productive responses.

Second, in response to your main criticisms:

1) Eve takes a lot of time. I agree that some activities do take a big block of time. Going on a roam can take a lot of time in the form up and then jumping looking for action -- and then it's often not accommodating to RL interruptions. But there are a lot of other activities that can be accomplished in shorter amounts of time or even semi-afk.

2) PVP is inescapable. Not so! It is easy to make yourself an undesirable target in high-sec. Tank your mining ships instead of maxing your cargohold. Fit your hauling ships with speed & agility - don't autopilot & don't try to carry a too valuable cargo in one trip. Don't bling your PVE ships. Make bookmarks. In low-sec/null --- cloaking is incredibly powerful. In fact, I spent too much time in my first few months being paranoid about attacks that never came.


Third, what do I like about Eve? The challenge. The vast amount of things to learn in so many different areas of the game. The threat of danger if you want to go looking for it. The opportunity to PVP in ways other than blowing up ships. The ability to set so many different goals and then execute a plan to achieve them. Playing a game while interacting with real people around you.


tl;dr: Lighten up. Tell us some of your positives (instead of only negatives) if you're really trying to improve the game.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#35 - 2014-06-11 16:07:11 UTC
Ertur Adestur wrote:
RebelArch Geten wrote:


This game is P2W. You skill up by having time in game and time in game cost money. Most players will deny this b/c it hurts their sense of achievement. SPs don't mean everything, but they mean a whole hell of a lot if the thing you want to do isn't available to you until you pay over $100 in sub fees for the privilege of getting the part of the game you wanted. The P2W isn't really a big deal but shouldn't be hidden the way it is. The real time skill system is only a money ploy.


Not sure what you're trying to say here. It's not pay to win, it's pay to play. True, no skills will train if you don't pay your sub, but you can't play either.


Buy plex, sell on market. Buy new Character and ships.

Pay 2 Win.
Catalonia Soikutsu
#36 - 2014-06-11 18:53:34 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:

Buy plex, sell on market. Buy new Character and ships.

Pay 2 Win.


I used to think that too, but really that isn't the case. You're actually paying someone else for their "win," character, first and foremost. So in the tradition of monetizing "P2W," mechanics, that one is unique. You can't simply say "I want a character with perfect tradeing skills and standings," and have one the next day. You'd have to wait months for such a character to show up on the bazaar and then haggle for it. Probably takes less time and effort than doing it the hard way like I did, but if I sold my character to someone (I wouldn't) they'd be compensating me for my time, not purchasing a win from CCP.

Furthermore, to the best of my understanding, it's harder to find a good corp if your character was traded on the bazaar. You're instantly assumed to have bought the character to hide your real "main," character's identity. I know I wouldn't trust someone who had no track record after a bazaar trade.

Finally, there's no making up for experience. I had a method for blitzing standing on my character who only had a few million skillpoints that I bet some 100m sp veterans didn't know about. I'm also good with spreadsheets which gives me an edge over even some of the most skilled traders with more isk than I have. There's certainly advantages to having perfect skills for X ship, but if you're terrible at flying it (such as me learning to kite with a condor a while back) then even expensive modules don't help much.

TL;DR: Even the bazaar is a poor example of P2W in the traditional sense. If anything, it's giving precoious new players the chance to skip ahead if they're good at making isk and want to do so, or if they're very competent at pvp and their corporation wants to furnish them with a better character from which to lead fleets. None of the skills or resources simply pop into existence from the cash being offered. They're offered by other players who are interested in trading them for other things. Win-Win.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-06-12 00:49:53 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
RebelArch Geten wrote:
I love Eve, my friends do not, and yet I can't defend the game. They are right about every reason they stopped playing. My game group of 6 joined last month. I am the last one playing. Though I am playing more for the genre than the mechanics.

Eve's problem is that you don't get what you pay for. You get the game experience someone else paid for.

This is not a sand box game where you find your fun and play your way. You PvP. No matter what you PvP, b/c the PvPers are looking for you to play with. If you stay in Hi Sec to trade, mine, or explore, you still PvP b/c there are no instances, and you can still be the target of a suicide PvPer.

This isn't a problem for risk or loss in game, this a disruption of someone's real life time. If you're a career professional there is no jumping on for that quick leisure time to do that one thing you really like doing. You may spend an hour just finding that thing, another hour avoiding other players, still get whacked and start all over again. There is no jumping on before you have to pick the kids up from practice. This is a game for hard core players.

And they love it. That's why you see so many snide remarks in any post having any complaint about Eve. It's unfortunate so many react such a way. If you check the archives you will see a back log of forum posts by players who couldn't have the fun they paid for. They aren't telling others how to have fun, or trying to take the hardcore's fun away, they are mature people pointing out they paid for fun and aren't getting it. Adults should be able to accommodate others. But in post after post these players where run off by but Eve is supposed be hard.

Yes it is. And that's not what people complain about. They complain about the lack of fun. Or better the disruption of fun. Hard can be fun. No fun is a waste of time.

I do not mind pew pew PvP, and rather enjoy avoiding other ships while exploring, what I do not have fun with, is wasting so much time warping through systems b/c the fun I'm looking for isn't present. So I have had my frustrating moments in Eve. And no this is not a badge of honor. This is pointless and in those moments I am not getting what I paid for. I don't have much leisure time and my time is valuable. I see why more than 50% of players who try Eve leave. I like the space genre so much that it's not scaring me away though. Eve has a monopoly on open world space travel so at the moment they aren't worried about customers getting what they paid for.

I own a business. This is bad business, but should be expected from a company that doesn't have a customer service phone number. Pet Peeve of mine, never trust a business that doesn't have more than automated customer service, but again Eve has the monopoly on best Space game so I ignored it.

Tips to deal with this:
Know that this is not a game for most players, it's a 2nd life sim. They work at it, and don't care if it's not fun. They will have no sympathy for this, and probably not even understand what your complaint is.

Most work at it, b/c you can pay in game money to keep playing, called Plexing and this provides a sense of achievement.

Do not Plex this is a waste of time and you will have more fun if you don't. Your real life time has an opportunity cost. Even if you earn minimum wage you can pay for this hobby off of 3 hours a month after taxes. In game time to earn the isk would take more than this.

You are always PvPing. This game is heavily favored towards PvP. You can PvP without mining, exploring, ratting, mission running, or hauling. You can not do any of those things with out PvPing. And you compete with other players for PVE sites.

The weekends are for PvP. If you have plans on anything else, forget it. There will be too many people on trying to PvP you.

The sooner you become a PvPer the more often you will get what you are paying for.

This game is P2W. You skill up by having time in game and time in game cost money. Most players will deny this b/c it hurts their sense of achievement. SPs don't mean everything, but they mean a whole hell of a lot if the thing you want to do isn't available to you until you pay over $100 in sub fees for the privilege of getting the part of the game you wanted. The P2W isn't really a big deal but shouldn't be hidden the way it is. The real time skill system is only a money ploy.

This game is like playing catch with your son and the NY Giant's defense shows up b/c you picked up a ball.

Try to have fun!


There is so much wrong information in this post, that I"m not even going to try.


All I will say: Looks like EVE isn't the game for you, maybe you should look for another game that suits you better.



p.s.

I play very very casual and still can log in for 30 minutes and have the greatest fun doing what ever I want to do.
It's learning how to do that.


EDIT:

Quote:
Do not Plex this is a waste of time and you will have more fun if you don't


The only thing in the entire OP that you figured out and are 100% correct in.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Lady Areola Fappington
#38 - 2014-06-12 10:52:32 UTC
I think I'll jump in on this, only because I see it repeated constantly.

SP are a lot less important than you think they are. Skills applied are conditional on the ship and modules you have equipped. Skills also have a cap. Level 5 is level 5, be it trained a year ago, or 5 minutes ago.

Just having more raw skill points does not make you better in everything in EVE. All those SP an miner has locked up in mining and refining are going to do jack-all nothing in a combat situation. All those SP in gunnery are going to do jack-all for the combat pilot who wants to do exploration.

Skills are situational, and part of EVE is exploiting that situation for your own gain.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Lantro
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-06-12 12:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lantro
Pay 2 win? No, at least not yet. Unlike most other games you don't have to do more than logging in every few days to add a new skill for training - that's it. I'm currently training up 3 pilots and don't expect to spent more than 1 hour on each until I'm done with my plan next year. How much do you achieve in 1 year playing another online game with a monthly subscription for 3 hours? Here I will end up with 2 really good marauder pilots and 1 acceptable T3 Explorer/Combat pilot - regardless how much money you pay CCP you won't make it further on every single pilot. In WoW I wouldn't even need to subscribe since I won't make it past Level 20 in the same time anyway...hmmm...

I don't like PvP and I never did PvP in this game since ~mid 2008 when I started playing. Lost two ships to ganks until now and it was my own laziness because I just watched the nice explosions rather than checking DScan every now and then. In Nullsec I loose my exploration vessel sometimes which could be avoided most times by either using a better ship/fit (but I prefer the plain old isk tank there, absolutely bulletproof concept), waiting some time or using another route.

I suggest you buy a monocle to see things clearer.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#40 - 2014-06-13 09:26:58 UTC
Catalonia Soikutsu wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:

Buy plex, sell on market. Buy new Character and ships.

Pay 2 Win.


I used to think that too, but really that isn't the case. You're actually paying someone else for their "win," character, first and foremost. So in the tradition of monetizing "P2W," mechanics, that one is unique. You can't simply say "I want a character with perfect tradeing skills and standings," and have one the next day. You'd have to wait months for such a character to show up on the bazaar and then haggle for it. Probably takes less time and effort than doing it the hard way like I did, but if I sold my character to someone (I wouldn't) they'd be compensating me for my time, not purchasing a win from CCP.

Furthermore, to the best of my understanding, it's harder to find a good corp if your character was traded on the bazaar. You're instantly assumed to have bought the character to hide your real "main," character's identity. I know I wouldn't trust someone who had no track record after a bazaar trade.

Finally, there's no making up for experience. I had a method for blitzing standing on my character who only had a few million skillpoints that I bet some 100m sp veterans didn't know about. I'm also good with spreadsheets which gives me an edge over even some of the most skilled traders with more isk than I have. There's certainly advantages to having perfect skills for X ship, but if you're terrible at flying it (such as me learning to kite with a condor a while back) then even expensive modules don't help much.

TL;DR: Even the bazaar is a poor example of P2W in the traditional sense. If anything, it's giving precoious new players the chance to skip ahead if they're good at making isk and want to do so, or if they're very competent at pvp and their corporation wants to furnish them with a better character from which to lead fleets. None of the skills or resources simply pop into existence from the cash being offered. They're offered by other players who are interested in trading them for other things. Win-Win.


I'm a DBA and excel expert - it's my job. It might help grind some numbers, but my in game experience is more valuable... not sure where you're going with it.

Being terrible at the game is constantly used as an excuse as to why high SP characters suck, but it takes only a few months of dedicated play to become a consumate pilot. in that time you'll be lucky to get a few T2 frigs with max fitting skills.

The character Bazaar is the most P2W aspect of almost any game. Other game offer XP boosts, Cash generation increases or items with stat bouses/golden bullets. Apart from wow's instant level 90 program, Eve is probably the only mainstream MMO where you can buy a top end "max level" character with years of history attached to it for cash.

You can find characters to buy easily and don't need to haggle because you are using real cash... that's the point of P2W. I've had people Eve-mail friends in game and offer them 120% of there characters worth because they saw their eveboard profile. They accepted, sold the char, bought a new char and just rejoined our corp with a profit being made.

Eve is the NFL of MMO's.
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