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RE: Links Still Broken

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-06-10 09:29:45 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
The magnitude of maxed-out link bonuses does some a tad excessive to me, but I trust the devs in charge of balancing know a bit more about the game than me. Abusing links while pretending to fly 'solo' frigs is annoying but it's also not the only way links are deployed.


And as always, the simple solution is in the metagame. Don't engage a Garmur unless you have your own linked tackler (or any other effective counter), especially if the Garmur pilot is a known link-abuser. Let him have fun flying around at 8km/s all by himself.

or, as said above, bring 2 damps? what good is a ship that goes 8km/s when it can't lock **** unless it goes into web ranges?
Sure!

Also, while those stats are pretty impressive, a linked condor (or breacher, or any other light missile ship for that matter) is equally annoying and just as lethal if you're in the wrong ship. For a fraction of the price. Also, potentially 'sneakier' because I'd always expect links on a Garmur these days, but not necessarily on any ol' T1 frig (unless I know the pilot).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#22 - 2014-06-10 09:48:29 UTC
Boosting was already nerfed in the last 'rebalancing'-pass, so I think OP is massively overstating this issue. Yes links are still very powerful, but they also enable solo pvpers and small gangs to punch over their own weight. I find it utterly hilarious when a bling-fit linked tengu breaks up a gate camp. It just feels right that there should be some mechanic to counter the omnipresent blob.

If you want to fight linked people maybe you should get some links of your own ;)
Mildew Wolf
#23 - 2014-06-10 09:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mildew Wolf
if you can think of some way to balance them that wont cost ccp a bunch of subs they might be interested. if not i doubt much is going to change anytime soon™

they should appear on killmail at least imo
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-06-10 10:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Ab'del Abu wrote:
...but they also enable solo pvpers and small gangs to punch over their own weight.


So does good piloting.

But, you're right of course about it enabling 'solo' players to break up blobs. So does having friends, though.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#25 - 2014-06-10 20:26:15 UTC
Mildew Wolf wrote:
if you can think of some way to balance them that wont cost ccp a bunch of subs they might be interested. if not i doubt much is going to change anytime soon™

they should appear on killmail at least imo



Requiring players to pay for alt accounts that they then need to multibox and have sit in a safe spot can not be good for business in the long run.

Only those who take this game way too seriously will do this. Normal people will just see eve becoming less and less for them. It really is a horrible mechanic.

But yes put them on killmails. We hear often repeated but extremely vague claims that there are technical difficulties with putting them on grid (even though grid and area of effect works in plenty of other mechanics) but what is the problem with putting them on killmails?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-06-10 20:28:59 UTC
Complaining about things that they are already working on fixing makes sense.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#27 - 2014-06-10 21:09:24 UTC
Please buff links. These tears are priceless.

Bacon makes us stronger
Evil Brock Nelson
#28 - 2014-06-10 23:44:08 UTC
I think links are working perfectly
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#29 - 2014-06-11 00:16:03 UTC
Well, go work for CCP and solve their coding issues of bringing links on grid for them. Then they can.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#30 - 2014-06-11 11:54:31 UTC
Links should be limited to 1 active per ship (like a prop-mod) and on grid only - or, change the range to 250km or whatever and 99% of people will never have an issue.

To facilitate this, the idea of a 'booster' slot in fleets should be removed and the strongest gang bonus from any member in any squad should apply to the whole fleet. This would drastically reduce fleet logistics and provide bonuses to fleets who bring non-afk pilots with links on their ships.

The larger your gang, the more Ships with links you can bring. Having BC's use a spare slot for a link (remove all capacitor cost and drastically reducing fitting requirements) seems like an excellent incentive to use the ship these mods are designed for in open-combat situations.

Have strength bonuses for 'link hulls' instead of the ability to fit multiple links. Perhaps a ratio of BC's have links at 80%, Command ships have 100% strength. T3's with 90% on bonuses sub systems. Perhaps nerf link strength and make command processors increase effectiveness similar to damage mods.

It would also prevent someone with a single link alt doing 1vX fights. Instead they would need 2/3/4 Battlecruisers ON GRID. A change to E-War perhaps allowing Damps/Tracking-Disruptors to reduce link range/Effectiveness or ECM to turn off Link modules all together (or all of the above) would mean gangs with a few E-War mods could happily Deal with Fleet who have links and no redundancy.

I'd Happily fly a hurricane in fleets with a single skirmish link on it.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-06-11 11:57:57 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
It would also prevent someone with a single link alt doing 1vX fights.
What's wrong with that?

1v1s in same-class ships with links are quite lame indeed. But using links to fight outnumbered or outclassed is an interesting mechanic.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#32 - 2014-06-11 11:58:19 UTC
A mechanism everyone can use

And can be stopped with a little effort

Yeah, clearly its ruining the game, just like turrets and drones and ECMs

Nerf all combat

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#33 - 2014-06-11 12:07:31 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
It would also prevent someone with a single link alt doing 1vX fights.
What's wrong with that?

1v1s in same-class ships with links are quite lame indeed. But using links to fight outnumbered or outclassed is an interesting mechanic.


Links are an unquantifiable number due to their nature. They do not add damage in a finite way, they increase ships stats and push them over the top in certain area's. People will always be able to do 1vX fights. But and off-Grid booster is not 1vX, its 1^NvX. By bringing the links on grid your opponents can recognise you are NOT alone, have backup (links or combat ships) and can adjust their strategy accordingly.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#34 - 2014-06-11 12:08:44 UTC
Double Post.
Solecist Project
#35 - 2014-06-11 12:14:25 UTC
So victims share the opinion that what killed them is OP.

What a brilliant way to get the point across!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#36 - 2014-06-11 12:20:16 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
It would also prevent someone with a single link alt doing 1vX fights.
What's wrong with that?

1v1s in same-class ships with links are quite lame indeed. But using links to fight outnumbered or outclassed is an interesting mechanic.


Links are an unquantifiable number due to their nature. They do not add damage in a finite way, they increase ships stats and push them over the top in certain area's. People will always be able to do 1vX fights. But and off-Grid booster is not 1vX, its 1^NvX. By bringing the links on grid your opponents can recognise you are NOT alone, have backup (links or combat ships) and can adjust their strategy accordingly.


So..

If you always assume that your enemy is boosting and you always boost, then what's the problem?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#37 - 2014-06-11 12:21:38 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
So victims share the opinion that what killed them is OP.

What a brilliant way to get the point across!


Actually most people are sick of dragging link alt's everywhere they go simple because NOT having one is a disadvantage. They'd rather be focussing on enjoying the game and no multi-boxing due to a Mechanic that is a PVP necessity.

Having multiple chars to play this game is advantageous in almsot every way - but making it near-mandatory is either bad game design or greed, neither of which benefits the end user.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#38 - 2014-06-11 12:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Maeltstome wrote:

Having multiple chars to play this game is advantageous in almsot every way


Or, as we humans call them, "friends"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#39 - 2014-06-11 12:54:12 UTC
CCP has said they're working on bringing links on grid.

There is no surer way to get a link-using "solo" pvper to leave than to ignore him and go scan down his links Tengu.

And if a single Garmur is kicking your fleet's ass because of links, you're failing on multiple levels of Eve.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-06-11 13:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
I actually fought a linked Garmur earlier today in my Heretic. One volley and he was in half structure, then he bailed. Your problem isn't links. I'm not a fan of off-grid links, but it looks like CCP are dealing with that but even if they weren't, War Kitten is right, you scan em down and flush em out with combat probes. Are they a pain? Sure. Are they balanced? Probably not, not as far as I know, or in my opinion. But i'm only talking about their ability to give bonuses from off-grid. The links themselves are fine.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104