Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So let me get this straight; You think CCP should change the game in an attempt to keep the 50% of players that quit from leaving, all the while alienating and pissing off the 50% that stick around? Every MMO who attempts this either fails or hemorrhages even more subs than they did before.

Have you ever heard the saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"? The 50% that stick around are worth at least twice what the 50% lost are. You might ask why this is. It's pretty simple. No matter what you do, you will never get that 50% that leaves, because they don't leave for just one reason, or even for 10 separate reasons. They leave for hundreds, if not thousands of different reasons and there's really no way of knowing exactly why they left.

What will end up happening is you'll start making EVE easier, or change the core game in such a way that it will drive off vets. Vet devotion is the true source of any MMO's success. They are the ones that are passionate about the game. They are the ones that get folks they meet to try the game. I guarantee the majority of these 50% players who quit, were recruited by vets. Sure, the players decided EVE wasn't for them, but those people would have never even checked out the game if it wasn't for vets.

TL;DR Change the game trying to keep people from leaving and you'll watch what really makes your game a success (vets) quit in droves.

Well, PvP is actually great. It's amazing. The problem is that 99% of PvP is just waiting for a fight that never happens.

^ this. Make hunting easier. The game is based off computers and knowing where people are in a system. How about a sov owner having an item that lets them know where everything is in their system? hell, why not even allow wormholers to use that item as well? It may kill the scanning, but those that are good at it can still make a lot of money in a dead system.

If CCP can funnel noobs to GOOD corps with helpful vets, longterm retention will hit likely 80%+, just "getting skillpoints faster" doesnt help the noob it HURTS them, because all of a sudden they have all these skillpoints thinking they ready for "that nice T2 ship" and end up losing way mroe isk than necessary for a simple noobie mistake in gameplay.

first problem. eve vets are assholes.... no other argument needed.
Second problem. good corps dont recruit noobs
Third problem. usually (not always but usually) noob corps are led by noobs, which get their ass kicked by troll corps that have spent five years in hisec.

Solution. Let's actually use the fking concord we pay an assload of taxes for. in systems that make a lot of isk off reprocessing/ratting/ carebear stuff, have a larger presence of concord. I have been thinking about adjustable security zones since the day I joined. It would shake up hisec... like a lot. and even make carebaring much harder because the stuff you had in that .9 system yesterday are now in a .5, or even a .2 if we can fix FW and tie system security into that somehow.

The funny thing is before TiDi it was basically like this.

Circa 2008 a common strategy in nullsec was to simply be in the system and put drones out first, because half the enemy fleet would disconnect when jumping in, and the client was so glitchy they might not even know they'd disconnected for a few minutes.

TiDi fixed this problem.

They quit because the game portion of the game is still in early beta after 11 years.

There was not supposed to be the huge gulf between PvE and PvP, each is supposed to drive the other. But at some point they went astray in development. The world fell by the wayside in the interest of catering to the hard core grief crowd. There is next to no support for positive playsyles, PvP is almost purely geared for a predator/victim engagement.

The carebear parts of the game are so far behind it is just sad. Every third post is some gankbear asking for mission rewards to be reduced (yet again) so that defenseless ( or at least severely disadvantaged ) targets are forced under their guns if they want meaningful profit from their activities.

The game itself is underdeveloped and should be fun on its own. All of the backbone lore/fluff/environmental aspects need a major shot of development. The hardcore PvP guys have had their day. They can keep shooting each other in the face for a while. It's time to make EVE a living world again, instead of a static curtain behind a bunch of predatory bullies grieving everyone they can because it's allowed in this game as 'content'.

Just a reminder. While CCP is of course the ultimate entity to do anything, keep in mind that it's the community (in- or outgame) that can drive away players, too. The flight of players certainly has just as much of "meta-reasons" as EVE's gameplay alone.




However - Sometimes, it is that human connection that also screws the experience.



This is unfortunately quite true. Alike my comment just about these quote, it is also too easy for new players to become the pawns of the big guys. It is almost like animal farm and the pigs. Of course, the new players in particular should know who they are joining, but most of the time, it is only "a matter of time" until they also notice that they are just filling the pockets of others. Do note that this is rather "new player in 0.0" matter.



Exactly. Especially the 2nd quote here sums up a lot of what I have seen over the last years. This is not to say I am boss in what should be done, but I surely can raise my hand on that player experience.

In terms of big hammer fleets and this quote,
I just find that the healing aspect of this game is just too extreme. At least during the times I was actively in fleets, a lot of fights never happened if either side had more logis and such. To be honest though, if it weren't for the simplicity of being able to align/instant warp out rather than spooling warp drives, there could be more conflicts. This is off topic though, but also something I've seen people leave the game for.

I do not want to say that logis and the warping mechanics simply need a nerf, but I really think that EVE could have even more fleet confrontations if it were
a) not easy to warp away
b) not easy to heal everything up
and c) even more, not to blow up that easily.

This is probably off topic, but ships can pop very fast in this game, especially with how several ships can easily stack alpha or dps. I'd just have a few ideas that could make things interesting but I really don't want to derail this thread with unnecessary suggestions. Plus, not everybody sees things that way (hence why it will get shot down with easy; that alone by big ally fanboys :D)

Nonetheless, CCP just needs to focus on particular ways to improve the New Player Experience, to keep them tied to the game. I have to see too though that I've had a few close yet newbie friends leave the game because if such like HiSec Gankers. Say what you like, but such overwhelming odds or actual shooting on others should only happen in lowsec and 0.0. I do agree too that highsec should not be a place for any carebear to linger forever either. But that too is a different subject and thread.

But as I said somewhere above, it's the community to likely screw any improvement too. Here in the F&I forums alone, it is too easy for trolls or ingame lobbyists to shoot down anything that might harm their big alliance, even if it is for the greater good (even if it would kill highsec too).

Mike, you would get a better response if you didn't include words such as bullies, grieving, gankbear and psychopath. You may see issue with aspects of the game, but all I see are those words and it makes me want to dismiss you out of hand.

Perhaps Mags. We certainly don't share playstyles, and have little common ground beyond enjoying different aspects of the same game.

Given the sheer oceans of bile and vitriol anyone not absolutely dedicated to making targets into victims must endure, I am pretty mild in my description of the players and playstyles that make up the bulk of the active posting community.

I doubt you can deny that the game not only tolerates but openly welcomes players and playstyles that would be considered griefing in other games. People leave EVE because the game is set up to treat fun and success as part of the zero sum win/lose equation. A significant portion of the players get their fun by ruining the day of another player. They actively steal the fun of their target, and then wonder why those people no longer want to play. In real life those who enjoy victimizing other people are called bullies. The activity of consistantly ruining the fun of another's game is called griefing. Gankbears gank at no meaningful risk to themselves (their fun and reward are the tears of their victim, the ships, ISK, and sec status mean nothing to them, so they risk nothing of value in their activity). People who operate without understanding or care of right and wrong are psychpaths, and if that is how you play your character then that is how your character should be described.

EVE has an incredibly toxic culture within its playerbase that has been cultivated for years. The negative aspects have been advantaged by the ruleset for a long time, and retention will not improve unless some balance is created in such a way as to control the toxic elements and players by giving some meaningful reward for positive play and playstyles.

All I'm saying is, sure I know we don't share playstyles. But the use of such terms, tends to negate the message one is trying to put forward.

I know as I have done it a couple of times and it will simply illicit bad responses.

Eve has always been about conflict and allowing everyone to interfere with everyone else's game play. It's as close to a sandbox game we can get without it being unplayable chaos. To then call those taking part in aspects you don't and expect CCP to remove then or nerf them out of the game, seems to me rather naive.

I don't start playing chess, then complain about how certain pieces are allowed to move. I learn how to move them in a way that will outsmart my opponent. If I do, I'm sure they would feel rather frustrated. But that doesn't then mean they or I, should request a change.
I wouldn't also label anyone playing chess a murderer. But it's goal is regicide.

The only toxic nature I have seen in Eve, is through either local chat or Evemails, after killing someone. Should I care for them? Or should I care for those that have asked questions after and wanted to know how to avoid dying in future?

You talk of risk and claim gankers have little. But isn't this also the responsibility of those being ganked? That's at the very heart of the sandbox nature of Eve, CCP want pilots to create content and add their own protection. It's also an MMO, so it stands to reason that people will join together to shoot others. So therefore shouldn't those being shot stand together to stop it?
You wish for them to have more risk, give them what you wish for. Many are already shoot on sight, although there are other ways to add risk.

I've never understood the idea that other people in Eve, shouldn't be allowed to interfere with or as you say 'ruin' another players game. It's an MMORPG that specialised in PvP in practically every aspect of game play. One could even argue that the counter in ship spinning, turned that into a competitive thing.
So why play Eve if all you want is that solo experience? You can even get it here, if you really wanted. The test server would be ideal for such purposes.