Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I can feel your epeen is strong!

Among those that quit are people, who are too smart to play Eve. As disengaged customers on the lookout for the best bang for their buck they can quickly understand that in order to freely use the game tools (ships, modules, and everything else) to beat the game or try every option the game has to offer, they have to spend an absurdly long time to train their characters or spend equally absurd amount of money on a trained character. And they just take their money elsewhere. The market wins.

There is nothing complicated about Eve Online. If you can play chess, you can play Eve and succeed. The "God is on the side of big batallions" rule. Add some social interaction to the mix with a sprinkle of "spreadsheets in space" and you have Eve Online in a nutshell.

It doesn't go that far in WoW.

You can play more than one character at the same time in Eve? The same account?

Just about every thread of this nature that has come up since the FF presentation in question has completely failed to understand the point of the presentation.

Presentation, tl;dr version:

"We have low retention. What we've found is that the people who leave generally fail to get involved in the more engaging, player-interaction aspects of the game, so we're going to try to do a better job of introducing new players to that type of gameplay."

People who post threads like this, tl;dr version:

"They have low retention because of reasons I just completely made up on the spot and they're absolutely true and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, including the 12 other people who posted threads that were identical to this one, except they identified a completely different reason people leave, so the game must be changed to be the way I want it to be because I'm obviously right even though nothing I've said, barring the low retention rate, was actually mentioned in the presentation to which I am referring."

Your completely bullshit, made-up-on-the-spot reason?



This wasn't in the presentation. You have no data to support that. It's fiction that you're presenting as fact, most likely because it represents some particular pet peeve of yours (every idiot thinks their pet peeve is the most important problem in the game - if Brewlar Kuvakei made this post, it would be about T2 BPOs.).

They actually have VERY high retention among the group of players that "discover" what could be accurately described as the game's "core competency", so what they want to do is steer more new players in that direction, instead of creating WoW in space.

Seriously, am I the only person who watched the ******* presentation? They didn't say, "Yeah, a lot of people leave and boy, we're just completely baffled as to why! Please go start a bunch of threads with your own pointless theories so we can get to the bottom of this truly elusive mystery!" They actually identified the "why" in the presentation.

No, you are not alone. I've watched the Eve Keynote, Eve Economy, Eve Manufacturing and god were they boring! I may have watched some other presentations, too. CCP people may be good developers but making a presentation before an audience takes a lot of skill. It needs practice. I for one don't have the skills.

But posting in these threads I pursue my own agenda. In any thread that is fit for that.
I started playing 1.5 months ago or so. Got like 5 chars now. They are fun to play. Economy, ISK, PLEX and all. There is one thing that ruins it all: BLOODY SLOW LEVELLING.

It goes like this.
1a."Wow, that's a cool ship! I want to fly that!"
Or
1b. "WTF, I am getting slaughtered by this mission's NPCs. Maybe I should get a bigger ship? ISIS? No, that's for newbies! Market window will tell me everything!"

2. "Let's see! Now I need these and these skills to fly this thing. Okay. Training window..."
*Comes back later after several days*

3. "May the fun begin! Now I can fly this ship. Time to fit it properly".

4a. *Goes to Eve University Wiki to look up proper fits*
-These fits are primarily for PvP, newb!
- Hmm, okay.

4b. *Goes to BattleClinic*
"Here is a nice fit! Says low skills, L3 missions. Must be the one I need"
*Buys lots of Tier I modules*
"Damn, I cannot fit them. Says I need Weapon Upgrades 3, Electronics Upgrades 4, Emission Control 5, and a bunch of other stuff. I am short of powergrid and CPU. Hmm. Let's install some micro core reactors and that's it. Okay. For now. Training window..."

5. *Comes back a week or two later*
"Now may the fun begin! Take that, rats! Hmm why am I doing such low DPS? Hmm"
*Studies description of weapons, ships, modules, all kinds of wikis, looks up youtube guides which are often out of date*
"Looks like I need Sharpshooter IV, Gunnery V, Medium Rail Specialization III, and... How much time is it going to take, EveMon? 279 days to be a proper pilot? To hell with that! This game sucks!"

So I am trying to get my voice heard. Trying to say that the game could be better for some people if the skill point acquisition was much faster. And no, I am totally not trying to guess why people don't stick with the game. I am just throwing wild guesses and see what sticks. Just trudging uphill face full of snow in the form of accusations that non-Eve players are dumb, 14-year-old who have a way with someone else's mother and stuff like that..

PS: I love how entire post disappears when I click preview

Agree that some people leave this game for a lot of reasons and since i left it for 2 months and i m just logging in sometimes to change skills etc. For me the reason I see it this happening is that I dont find any PVE game at all ,just boring grinding level 4 missions.No story no scenario almost nothing for PVE.
Like it or not people need PVE depth to stay in a game.

Second reason is as you mentioned and other people did that PVP is terrible for a solo player since he will be ganged or abused by more than 2 opponents.(So you either join a big corp or don t PVP at all)

Third reason is that many many people are getting bored of the point and click system since you don t feel like having good control of your ship and joystick support would be great.

Fourth reason is that the jumps and gates are really boring also and the universe should be one and you should use jumps wit your ship and not with gates. and according to ships power fuel etc you would be able to jump farther.

Fifth reason is that the game is controlled by older eve players who don t like changes and they like this game to be stable and not progress .

6th reason is that is supposed to be a sci fi game but I don't see any sci fi in it like aliens,different races than humans,alien unique technology(sleepers is nothing like that) ,artifacts and a lot of other great stuff we see in sci fi movies like star wars and star trek.
(And to that comes my 5th reason where people in here don t want those things to be added|)

7th reason is that most people can t afford to PVP since ships are really expensive to afford if you lose them all the time.Also most people can t PVP in a bigger ship than a frigate solo since they will be ganged 99% and it's really boring all the time fighting in frigates.

8th reason Training skills for months or years to fly a ship that might lose and can't afford it it's a little wasted time.I'm not saying this to change but to be different and give all players the opportunity to fly bigger and more enjoying ships than frigates.

I think EVE it's a good game but can't hold you a lot since it's boring.
As someone in forums of the oldest players in here said EVE is for people that weren't accepted in other MMOs or were bad at them and found EVE.An empty desert for only a few.

My major takeaway from this:

1. You don't seem to know how to downgrade a fit to match your skills.

2. You apparently - and quite erroneously - believe "being a proper pilot" means "flying a battleship".

3. Your training plan is ****.

• You're obviously PvP-averse, yet you're training thermodynamics to 5? Really? Why? Overheating is mostly useful in the brief, violent encounters of PvP play. It's rarely significant in PvE, except for the very rare "oh ****" situation. 4 will be more than adequate.
• Large railgun spec 5? There's a waste of 26 days.
• You missed Advanced Weapon Upgrades. Have fun fitting a battleship without that.
• Why train launcher rigging as part of a gallente battleship plan?
• Gallente battleship skillplan without a single drone skill on it. That's kind of a massive omission.

Is it the game's fault you seem to think you need to jump head first into a battleship? Why not spend some time learning the game first, at least to such an extent that you don't make a Gallente Battleship training plan with zero drone skills?

Here's the problem: You're making suggestions about how the game needs to be changed, but you clearly don't even really grasp, just yet, how the game actually *is*. Your time would be better spent in newbie Q&A.

Just a few posts back you were commenting on how simplistic the game is, and here you have a training plan chock full of rookie mistakes (especially the thing about the drones). I actually agree that it is not that complex of a game, but there is some nuance, and you clearly haven't grasped it yet. ;)

I might be wrong I might be correct but anyone can express his opinion.If I was that wrong EVE should have 200ks+ and not 20-50ks for a 10+ year game.Still I think it's a good game but can be improved to be top.

Every mission runner or mining corporation will tell you otherwise, which self perpetuates the myth and continues to misinform new players continuously.

This is something that is a huge hurdle for anyone coming from a traditional MMO. Traditional MMOs ingrain the idea that you're supposed to be this invincible hero feed you victory after victory. Players who start playing EVE generally come from this background and start treating EVE like one of those MMOs.

Yes and no, in the beginning this is true, but later on generalizing can be helpful depending on the activities you're involved with.

Exactly, training skills is all well and good, but it has some very drastic diminishing returns. During the Great War and the Second Great War one of the many ideological differences between the iconically primary forces of BoB and Goonswarm was this idea. An extra player is far more valuable on the field than up scaling an existing player to a T2 hull in most cases.

SurrenderMonkey

I was doing level 4 mining missions that require little user interaction and is a great way to get some ISK and implants if you have a lot of time and work behind the desk all day. I got a level 4 combat mission as a storyline one and couldn't do it with a cruiser because I faced big ships all the way to several battleships just in one pocket. Thankfully a friend helped me out. And he told me these missions are designed for battleships.


How very kind of you! And I was hell-bent all the time making my posts as mild as possible. Another reason to like the game.


Thanks for the tip.


Because initially it was just another "level a Raven" plan and obviously I failed to edit out the unnecessary lines.

I uploaded that training plan also for the sake of showing that it takes that long for some to amount to something.
Don't you think it is a bit wrong that you will never be able to learn every skill there is? Even with several chars? At least under five years old each?

ShahFluffers

There is a limit to how far creativeness can take you against a bunch of battleships.

It is just another character. Yes, I am planning a career of running L4 missions for him. You didn't think I stopped everything else and got down to working out and putting the training plan into effect?

And there is another guideline that anyone can grasp after a few days of playing: you cannot play the game successfully with one char. Either get an alt or get into a corp. That one is just another alt.